FogForever

Ok, I am considering getting Shock Force. I have had reservations simply because of the disparities between forces. I am not sure how much fun it would be to take out a 3rd world military with a 1st world military. Now I am enjoying Cold War and Black Sea quite a bit. The scenarios are challenging and fun and often difficult. So is SF as challenging and fun as BS or CW? Where is the appeal within Shock Force? It definitely appears to be fairly popular amongst CM titles. From my perspective, the variety of equipment and nations is appealing but what happens when the rubber meets the road?

Ok, decision time. I will call in a medium short 120mm mortar strike on the Bradley. It will take at least 9 minutes to arrive. And since the artillery strike is not guaranteed, I will do a safe redeployment of my 2 Spigots to the front. They will take some time to get there but they have the range to take out that Bradley. And my infantry on the left side of the river, covered by their 2 remaining Saxhorns, will continue pushing forward cautiously. My experience with defending Bradleys with clear fields of fire is they will eat up infantry as a mere snack. The defending M-113 .50 cal is also pretty devastating to advancing infantry. I really would like to get those T-62s into action sooner rather than later. I have promised them some M-113s and I intend to deliver.

Yes, risky. There is still at least one M-60 and Bradley which I haven't located and a potential position with LOS where they could be lurking. Smoke doesn't guarantee I will get across that bridge and the consequences are extreme if the bridge ends up blocked. And time continues to tick away.

Also if a T-62 is knocked out or immobilized on the bridge, is the bridge permanently blocked? Or can I push the disabled tank off the bridge. That is important. If the bridge is permanently blocked, then my entire tank force is permanently isolated from the objective and totally useless.

It might be worth it to knock out that one Bradley covering the bridge. In Black Sea, I found Medium Short to give a decent chance of a hit. Although I suspect it is more likely with US than Russian artillery. Don't know about CW. The problem is it will take 9-10 minutes to call either artillery on the Bradley or smoke to cross the bridge and at the moment, I don't have anyone with direct LOS on the Bradley. ....and checking my vehicles, none of my BRDMs, BTRs or tanks can pop smoke....although my infantry can and I have infantry near the bridge. They might be able to put smoke on the bridge.

Well, I have the T-62 (1975) tank. It would be a flank shot rather than a rear shot. The Bradley is shooting down from 575 meters on the bridge which does have side concrete railing. ....also I would face the turret towards the Bradley. Range probably around 1300 meters.

As far as I can tell, only one Bradley has a LOS on the bridge but it is a 90 degree flanking shot. I guess the biggest concern is that it busts some track wheels with the 25mm and immobilizes one. Can an immobilized tank be pushed off a bridge???

Wait, I am assuming none of the Bradley weapon systems can shoot through smoke in CW 78-82. So neither the Bradleys or my tanks can actually fire until smoke clears regardless of whether the Bradley can see my tanks or not. Once I get across the bridge and into covered ground, I can hopefully start picking off Bradleys one at a time.

Also I remember reading that the Bradley has some super hard ceramic roofing that makes it very difficult to destroy with artillery. I think that was in Black Sea. It sounds like it may not be true in the CW timeframe. Also another concern is the small 120mm Mortar. In Black Sea, 120mm is good against the thin skin Russian/Ukraine APCs but not very effective against Bradleys. Although if a direct 120mm mortar hit will destroy a cold war Bradley consistently, I would say it is worth taking a shot if the artillery is available.

Ok, I think this might work. I remember someone mentioning that TOWs can't be guided through smoke until the TOW2 came out. I googled and apparently the TOW2 wasn't deployed until 1987. So if all is correct, it appears no TOWs, and I assume Dragons as well, can fire through smoke for the entire period of Cold War 78-82. I have already destroyed 2 M60A3s and gun hit 2 others with my ATGMs. So I assume only 1 combat effective M60A3 left. Although I haven't hit any of the assumed 5 Bradleys yet. Still I think I can get over the bridge with my tanks using smoke and start actually using them.

Ok, I am in a situation in which a Bradley has long range coverage over a chokepoint. None of my Saxhorns have the range and my Spigots cannot maneuver to get into a position to take a shot at it without 15-20 minutes to maybe get into a firing position. I have some tanks but I know they have no chance whatsoever at the range and undoubtedly the TOWs would wreak havoc. So I am left with 120mm Mortars. Anybody have any success taking out a Cold War Bradley with 120mm Mortars?

I actually put only one squad split into teams in the buildings area on the left with the other 2 squads in the woods further to the left. The woods on the left are a very good position. When I play it as the Russians, I think my main attack will go in on the US right and center. I will stay away from their left. Also my original thoughts were to put one full platoon into OPs, listening posts and ambush spots but it really wasn't a good idea considering the lack of radios. I actually managed to deploy all 3 platoons such a manner that all but one dragon detachment were in command and control. I suspect that is the best way to use them. Also I never did use my cluster ammo. I kept it in reserve and the right target situation and timing never really came up. Night time use probably would be produced some cool visual effects.

I was looking at the 79 troops vs the 82 troops and notice a far large complement of dragons per platoon in 82. 3 per platoon in 82 vs 1 per platoon in 79. Those dragons are a significant anti-tank force. Although I was only looking at Mech battalions.

I had two platoons in town with their M-113s tucked away and one platoon on the left with their M-113s hidden away in the woods. I used some of the M-113s as fire support in both areas when I felt I could use them with minimal risk. That stretch of woods you are talking about, I put a TRP on it and a FO. I used the FO to infiltrate into the woods on the side of the plateau and used them as a listening post. The FO had a radio which makes them useful for passing info along about what was going on up there. I had considered using a dragon there as a listening post and ambush unit but they lacked a radio. That was a fun scenario.

It turns out I had the M-113A2 in the Bauerdorf scenario. It has a cocoon of shields around the gunner. So I was able to use several M-113s to hit infantry assembly areas through key hole slots between buildings. That .50 cal is devastating if you get LOS from a covered position and the shields around the gunner allows him to blast away with minimal risk from return small arms fire. I found the M-113A2 very useful in the Bauerdorf scenario. I didn't use all of them but even a few made a substantial contribution to the defense and I didn't lose one. So happy with the M-113A2.

Now that I understand it, I see how to use it tactically in this particular scenario. I think it does have an impact on deployment and maybe even sequence of engagement in anticipation of expected smoke. Clearly I don't want a unit positioned such that it pops smoke early and blocks LOS for other units.

Really the problem is the smoke. It takes awhile to disappear and in those minutes, the soviets are on top of you. And if the wind is wrong, it blocks others from firing as well.

What is odd is I have had several other M901s fire also and none of them popped smoke or retreated. One actually had 2 shots taken at him and he never budged and continued firing. I think that one has taken out 5 T-55s, I think T-55s.

Maybe I missed it but I don't think anyone has even shot at him yet. But then also if we use that logic... that Soviets are pointing guns at them...., then everyone would run. And I imagine the infantry would be the first to go. Sometimes you need to shoot when you have the advantage and especially if by not shooting, the advantage shifts to the soviets. I guess for the moment, there is not much choice but to make the best of it.

Ummm...well I didn't tell the M901 to pop smoke. In fact, I didn't see a shot fired at the M901. Regardless, it was a major mistake because the smoke is drifting across my front and now I can't shoot at masses of tanks rapidly closing the range. I guess I will have to drive through the smoke to close the range so I can shoot again but not a very good idea because the soviet tanks are pretty close now. This auto popping of smoke may not be a good idea if it allows Soviet tanks to close the range with impunity. I had the advantage but not now.

Ok, I just had a M901 fire off several Tows, pop smoke and pull back. The next turn, another M901 appears to have multiple clear definite targets in sight but cannot get a LOS to fire apparently due to the smoke emitted by the other M901. So did the US have thermal blocking smoke during this timeframe. I assumed not as I thought Soviets weren't using thermals. Also why do have a clear identified targets in sight but no target LOS to any target? What am I missing here?

Ummm...I didn't realize the M-113 was amphibious. That is a nice feature.

Just did a search, looks like we don't get star shells. That is a shame.

Yes, I may use my whole first infantry platoon for OPs, delaying points and ambushes. The other two platoons as strongpoints. I wonder if this is one of those scenarios with multiple AI strategies.

I definitely would not bet the game on it but it is nice to have the odds shifted in my direction. They might help against ATGMs as well...if they hit them. Would probably help infantry against RPGs. If they work in buildings and can help negate RPGs that would be very useful for infantry strongpoint.