numdydar

Remember the scale of a 'tank' unit in the game. It not just a few aromred car running around. A tank unit represents a Tank Corp :eek: The Chinese had ONE Mech Div in the entire war. After the Germans left, the Soviet Union started to support the Nationalists. The Soviets came in and began to provide Soviet advisers and Soviet tanks arrived in China for the first time in March 1938.[7] The National Revolutionary Army facing Japanese forces had only a small number of armoured vehicles and mechanised troops formed in the three armoured battalions to defend a large front. After these battalions were mostly destroyed in the Battle of Shanghai and Battle of Nanjing, new tanks, armoured cars and trucks from the Soviet Union and Italy made it possible to create the only mechanized division in the army. The Soviet advisers organized a mechanised unit in China, the 200th Division, which consisted of one tank regiment and one motorised infantry regiment.

I do not want a repeat of history since we all know how that turned out lol. But I do want to face the same issues the leaders of the time faced. So if I play the Allies, I want China to have the same forces they would have had to see if what I do makes a difference. I do not want to have units/tech they had no way of getting in the real war. Might as well have alians land and give them all phasers since the Chinese developing a tank infrastructure and the doctorine to use them is just as likely.

The major issue with all "I do my turn and then you do yours" (I go, You go) is there is no way to react to events between turns. Paxadox has gotton away from this by using a 'continous time' system in their HoI 3 series. However even there, a 'turn' is an hour as that is the smallest unit of time in the game. Other games, like War in the Pacific, use a system where moves are plotted for all units, naval, air, land, by both sides, then the turn 'runs'. The players cannot do anything while the turn runs, but naval and air units can 'react' to events as the game processes the plotted moves. Land combat takes place at the end of all land movement but units have to be in the same location to fight. The issue with all these systems is that for naval forces, the IGYG system fails pretty badly. Since if I send an invasion force somewhere, it cannot be stopped if the distance is short, like in the Med or the English channel. So in the game I can sail around with Assult ships and not worry about any opposing fleets. To me this is a huge flaw in these systems, lack of naval reaction. There is a possible solution with a game called Aurora http://aurora2.pentarch.org/ . The player can actually set the time inerval for each turn, from 5 minutes to 30 days. In addition, the player can also chose the 'step' for each turn. So if you had a 5 minute turn, you could have the game evaluate, moves, combats, etc. every 5 sec to every minute if you wanted. So how would this help SC? Assume that you plotted all your attacks and moves in a turn. Your units would show where they would end up just like now. Plus your attacks would show the most likely result of the attacks, including air atacks. Say the game was hard coded to use an hour as the 'step' of time and you chose 1 day as the turn lenght for that turn. So the game engine would step through 24 'mini-turns' behind the scenes and show the results of these 'mini-moves' as they occured. Or generate a turn report that highlights the major events. With this type of system, an invasion could set sail, for England, the UK could have ships on a patrol type mission that sweep the channel (or even better, in port with a mission to react to fleets withing X squares). Then as the invasion fleet is sailing, the fleet has a chance to intercept and defeat it before anything lands. Planes coulds also be set to patrol and/or react on both sides that could damage both fleets as they move towards each other. This would result with a much more inteactive system than the current naval system. To me the gold standard of a WWII game that covers the ETO, is how easy is it for the Germans to invade England. Not so much to capture the island, but just to get ashore with a decent chance to capture a port. With a1939 start. Any game that starts earlier than that can better adjust things towards that goal than a '39 start. So far the best game model that reflects this is the HoI 3 series. I realize this is more for SC3 than an expamsion of SC2 or patch. But I am hopefully these comments will get the developers to think about a better naval model than the current one. It would be really nice to have one in the ETO that works as well as War in the Pacific, without that level of detail of course. As no one to date has accomplished this yet, I really understand how hard it is to model naval actions that can be over in half a day at the same time you are modeling land battles that can take weeks. I wish you all the best to accomplish this

That makes sense Bill. However, the UK was still investing in Dip when England was being overrun. So can this be imporved so that if Germany has captured a port and/or London, all resources go to new units and only units in the UK get rebuilt? Until no more Germans are oshore. Because right now the AI keeps way too few units in the UK.

People that say the Chinese could have made (and used) tanks if they had wanted them do not really understand the Chinese capabilities in WWII. Here is a breif explaination of their historical capabilities. Either SC is a realistic simulation of the capabilities of the various opposing forces in WWII or it is a science fiction game. The designers need to decide which one it should be. I know the one I will continue to buy By 1941, the Chinese position was precarious. The largest forces opposing the Japanese were the Nationalists led by Chiang Kai-Shek, but the foreign military aid they had been receiving in the 1930s had dried up because of the war in Europe. Chiang’s forces were badly trained, badly disciplined and badly equipped. Their loyalty was questionable. The truce with their Communist rival, the CCP, was fragile. Both sides seemed more intent on maintaining control in their own territory than in fighting the Japanese. Both were expecting and preparing for a fresh civil war as soon as Japan was defeated. Many of Chiang’s men also held allegiances to local warlords. In February 1942, when Congress approved a 500 million dollar loan to China, Roosevelt described China as the US’s main ally against Japan. Chiang Kai-Shek was enchanted to now be described as one of the ‘Big Four’ Allied war-leaders. General ‘Vinegar Joe’ Stillwell became Chiang’s Chief of Staff, as well as commander of US forces in China, Burma and India. Chiang believed China would be the centre of US efforts against Japan. The reality was different. Difficulties in sending supplies, British reservations, general concern about Chiang’s motives, and the urgency of operations in the Pacific and elsewhere meant that China did not become a theatre of main effort for the Allies. Stillwell’s mission to improve the efficiency of Chiang’s forces and turn the tide against the Japanese proved difficult. Chiang, Stillwell and Chennault disagreed fiercely over how to use the limited aid that could be flown in from India across the ‘Hump’ (the Himalayan mountains). To the frustration of Chinese Communists and Nationalists, the beginning of Pacific offensives in 1943 meant that US strategy ceased to depend upon China. The priority given to aid for China plummeted.

You are still taking points away from the Germans which is the same effect as taking the units an running an operation with them. Since losing 200 points for 4 turns (or whatever number is used and for how long) prevents new units from being bought which reflects they are tied up in the Malta operation. Plus, you do not get any new units for the event execpt maybe a garrision on Malta. So to me, it does have the same effect.

In that case could the game just leave them off the list of countries to influance? As there was no way the DEI would have joined the Axis, but in the game they could. Provided you wanted to invest enough points into them.

How on earth could Malta effect NA supply in the canal area? Just run convoys from Athens to Alexandria and Malta would have zero effect. You could also sail from Taranto or Vience and Malta again has no impact. The only convoys Malta impacted were the ones that went to Tripoli. So the only port Malta should affect would be that one. The rest of the ports should be imune to the event.

You would want these units, even if it was totally outside of any reality in the real war? Also the US did NOT supply the Chinese with tanks, AA, etc. They had enough trouble just getting basic goods to China, much less the kind of support China would need to be able to actual use more advanced equipment like this. Look at the actual order of battle the Chinese had in the war and see how many tank corps they had. I would much prefer a game that has historical probalities, not outright science fiction

Working my through the game still and have noticed some issue that I think need to be fixed. Russia The tech research for them needs to be reduced a LOT. In '41 they have level 2 Inf and lv 2 tanks :eek: So until war occurs, Russia should be very restrictive in it's research abilities. First winter evvets need to be modified to only effect units well into Russia. Russia attacked Germany in late '41. Units that were barely across the Russian border got hit. The winter should not affect any unit unless they way beyond the original Polish borders. So maybe add a 'Weather Line' to the map to indicate where the winter will effect units? Russia attacked Germany in my game. In that case I really doubt anyone would give them lend lease, especially the US. Also if invading Britian is what cased this, it should be based on the number of opposing troops on the border, not just the fact that England was invaded. Stalin was an opportunist and would not have gone to war (especially in the fall/winter of '41) if the troop ratio was not heavily in Russia's favor. Maybe an event for Russia that fires in Sept '41 if Germany did not attack that would start increasing their production and research in order to prepare for a war in '42 or '43 IndoChina area Thiland should join the Axis at some point without any need for spending diplomancy on it. Japan is at war with the Allies and Thiland is still netural. Dutch East Indies Not sure why they are not automaticly in the Allies since historically they were. The Dutch GiE still controlled the area and were still at war with Germany. So attacking them should not need a seperate DoW nor should they be able to be infulenced with diplomancy. North Africa Several issues here. Italy now owns the Suez yet I am still getting the message that supply in East Africa is being effected by the Suez :confused: Obviously this needs to be adjusted somehow. Malta affecting supply event should completly stop once Alexandria is captured. Also, rather than forcing the player to have to figure out a way to actually take Malta, this should be done by event. If the Germans REALLY wanted to take Malta they easily could have, at a cost of course. So an event saying German will need to spend X points and Malta falls to Germany would be nice. I would suggest a 200 points/turn for 4 turns would cover what German would have needed to commit in game terms to get the island. GB AI Britian AI sends way too many forces outside of Britain. When I invaded, they only had like six ground forces (Corps or less in size) including counting the Home Guard. With 1 HQ, 1 Army, 1 HQ, plus about 3-5 Corps, I was easily able to overrun the defenders. So there needs to be some way to force the AI to keep troops in Britian to a certain level. Also they reinforce units in Africa and elsewhere before they reinforce units in Britian. Which seems really odd. Diplomancy I have had a 25% chance to influence Spain for almost 2 years in the game and have not gotten a single hit yet. On average I should have about 1 hit ever four turns yet nothing after two years of game turns. If Spain is being countered influenced by someone else, then this needs to told to the player somehow each turn. Otherwise they will thing the game is bugged (like I do) instead of everything working like it should. Just some observations that I think the game needs to tighten up in order to make in a better experience.

You really need to restrict China to only build infantry. The AI is building all sorts of units that the Chinese were totally incapable of building, much less have the doctrine to actually use. I have two tanks, artillery, AA guns, etc. that the Chinese have built :eek: They should not be able to research any of these types of units either. So something else for the patch

Plus, imho, it has the right 'feel' to the transport/sub interaction. While I joking refered to War in the Pacific above, it is the only game I have ever played that actually has WWII Naval operations done really well. Once you play that, you truely realize how difficult it is to model, in two very different areas of operations (Atlantic and Pacific. Three if you count the Med) naval operations. All of these have naval forces operate very differently due to size of the area involved, enemy operations, etc. So to have a game cover all these areas and model them accurately is really asking too much. The only thing really in common between the naval operations in the Alantic and Pacific theathers is that they all have ships in them lol.

Well if you want realism, there is always War in the Pacific

Really? It should be one. Especially since that was one of the ports the Germans were going to use for supplies in Sealion. Also since I landed there and realized I'm screwed sing it is not a port . Did not even look to make sure since I assumed it was

+1 for me too. Maybe different symbol colors to set them apart would work.

While we are on map issues, there is no rail line between Germany controlled France and Bordeaux. So there either needs to be one added or the square that already has the rail conncetion on the map needs to be given to Germany versus Vichy. Also noticed that the rail line into Spain from France goes through Vichy's area. Again either a rail line into Spain through Germany controlled areas needs to be added or the square with the existing rail needs to be given to Germany instead of Vichy.

Getting ready to invade and realized there is NO road or rail line from Germany/Austria into there. What the heck? Please see the map from 1939 that clearly shows there are two roads (and most likely a rail line too) between these two countries. So now I have to go through Hungary or Italy to get supply :confused:. What if both of these courtries are netural? Say I wanted to invade before France fell, then what? I hope this gets fixed in the next patch.

Cool. Will definately do that for my next game Now if there was a way to get this to work for the country just attacked for one turn ...

No unfortunately I do not have a save around when that occured.

If Italy had stayed out of the war, then there was no reason for Germany to even bother with the region. Unlees the Allied coup took place in Yugoslavia of course. I am not sure the British would have cared if Yugoslavia went Axis or not if Italy was inactive.

I am only getting 60 or so per turn as Italy so I don't see how that can turn Italy into a power house . But I have not played the game that much so I do not know if over time what the effect that amount would have. It just does not feel that it would be that decisive.

Good on the 100 regiment notice. It would be nice to explain these events a little more as to what they mean in their text as getting 1 SF unit is far different than them getting 3-4 Armies

Why don't these cities start the game with a garrision? Manchuria had been owned by Japan long before '39 so it seems a little silly we have to manually move units around just to prevent Russia's readiness from increasing. I do not know if AoD can 'freeze' units, but if it can, then all units in Manchuria should be frozen until Russia attacks Japan. This would simplify the whole garrision issue

Great. Will definately look into that. Unless someone beats me to it lol.

Really? Wow. I would never want Italy in the war unless I was invading England. Having them stay netural (which is what Hilter wanted them to do) is a huge benefit to Germany since the entire Sorthern front can completely be ignored. Is there a way to mod this or is it hard coded?