hm_stanley

i'm sure you know you're not limited in terms of ammo on a pre-planned. I could shoot my whole load if I wanted to from all batteries.. I think the "you get a trp" from a pre-planned is at least a bridge to the "now you see it, now you don't" problem... that to me is a game abstraction that really doesn't make sense to me.. i mean in the real world, LOS is an abstraction.. you have a grid based artillery barrage system. I'm not entirely sure how this worked i WWII, but I would think it was similar to Vietnam, etc. You had contact, you planned a fire-mission on a grid/coordinates and then spotted and then.. boom.. I mean at any point on the map, I can see the horizon, and I can "guess" as to coordinates of that grid point. I can call in rounds and the resulting explosions are easy to see.. -- BTW, it makes me laugh that if you don't have a direct LOS to a place a spotting round falls, then the FFE mission will be fail.., HOW THE HELL DO YOU MISS AN EXPLOSION??", that is one pixel off from your LOS capability..? Anyway.. I'm blabbering on now, the above is not the point.. I just think a reconciliation to the abstraction of pre-planned would help, since right now there is a disconnect to the "now you see it, now you don't"..

ok, i see your logic.. I guess where I have a disconnect is if the barrage is called to a point (any point) on the map by an HQ unit, then it messes with the brain when you can't call in additional support for another point on the map that 1 minute ago you could see.. I get the mechanics, I'm not stupid.. but if one could call to any point, can't those dood call in and say.. "hey, remember that point you shot at in the beginning of this battle, shoot there again.." but they can't since they've forgotten where that point it, and they can't see it.. I guess it's the abstraction that makes me unsettled.

yes, I have no problem with the function of pre-planned, just that "how did they all of a sudden know everything about the map" and then game starts and they know nothing.. Seems to be something amiss to this, I would make sense for example if you pre-planned an artillery barrage and then started the game, that the pre-planned artillery barrage would become an automatic TRP? I'm just not clear on how one see everything one turn and then the next turn see nothing. Has to be some mechanics behind this, otherwise, it feels off.

I'm trying to figure out the logic behind pre-planned barrages vs. TRP's. Why have TRP's when you can spot any point on the board in turn one with a pre-planned barrage? Some of those artillery options shoot there yum yum for 26-30 minutes? I mean you can just walk/ride an FO around the map and get a new spot to redirect fire for? It just seems out of context. As for TRP's, I get their purpose.. makes total sense in the context of the game (airplane observer, or maps from the enemy, ground that was surveyed before, or etc..etc..). Now, I'm not calling for an end to pre-planned barrages and their delectable destruction, and I'm not knocking it for those that like the boom boom, but it should COST something.. COST A LOT and should be treated just like TRP's. If you want to pre-plan an artillery barrage, you can, but it will cost a ton of pts. Now in scenarios/campaigns (possibly it applies in H2H), this makes no difference, since those are scripted.

I know why Steve hasn't posted this review... use a spelling or grammar checker lately?? Not!

the heavy arty is called MRs18 210mm "brummbar" or something like this.. the 210 mm? that's the one I was referring to.. also, pre-planned vs. trp? I'm not sure I get the difference? I mean, what stops a player from just pre-planning a barrage from the initial start, and then adjust all day long with 27 minutes of cannon fire? seems like a no-brainer to me. .. shouldn't the same rules apply for pre-planned? If you can't see them, can't shoot them? And TRP are only used after setup?, with all the frustration of getting big guns on station?

It's too easy to pick one armored recon platoon and then stack the artillery with brummbar's and let it shoot for 26 minutes all 80 or 160 rounds.. Even on loose rarity, it's easy to set that scenario up.. now, when I play PBEM, I make a point of saying no death barrages, but if the player chooses 14 inch guns and waits 19 minutes to get them on station, well.. then your human wave crack weapons battalion with overwhelming firepower is.. well.... sitting in shell craters. I played a short QB today by myself to test the theory.. on a small map with a small force, against a crack airborne infantry company (well 2 companies.. I gave them more points), and I outfitted myself with a one armored recon element and the brummbar... and I just sat there and redirected artillery from the opening barrage until they were all dead.. and then I just mopped up. I would think a human player would hole up, and range the fire, but still.. it's like fighting with lots of noise and "rattled" troops.. no fun. Now I understand the outlandish rarity points when it's on strict.. makes sense to me now.

Dogs chasing cats is an excellent scenario.

I'm curious if others think huzzar is an awesome map but I'm looking for a map to play a ME battle. I really loved the huzzar map and I'd like to try an ME with it.. but... Does anyone else have some good suggestions for a large map for a battalion+ size battle?

Ok...thanks Akd.. makes sense...

Akd??? Really? Steve goes to great length in the manual to explain the "flakiness" of different radios, hand held vs. Others..I would imagine these variances would be modeled somehow.. Maybe Steve can chime in here...

Since both vehicles have radios, do you get a benefit of a "stronger" or more "stable" radio platform in the 250/3 vs. 250/1? It's important, since I've been purchasing the 250/3 or 251/3 with the intent of throwing HQ units in those vehicles in a hope that the radios perform better than the stock radios in the 250/1 & 251/1.. Does anything know if a bonus is applied here and if so, what is that bonus? Do radios have a strength "variance" or "clarity" variance? for calling in support, does that variance play into that support call? That is, the stronger, clearer signal somehow gets better results? For example, a wireless radio on a platoon hq vs. the "field radio" on the 250/3, do you get better results with command and control. I'm very interested in the mechanics of the game around radios, and the manual I don't think does it much justice with respect to explaining exactly how they are modeled. BTW, i just learned Rommel's favorite field vehicle was the 250/3 ... never knew that..

hey vanir, thanks for that lone sentry site.. never saw that before.. what a fantastic site.

what about the gap I talked about? I think the show was "Greatest Tank Battles" and it was the Battle of the Bulge episode and this tanker was talking about his aim point, which was the space in between the turret and chassis, that was a "known" weak spot on the Tiger... he claims to have hit it and rendered the tank inoperable.. The whole episode is on youtube.. Here is the first part.. but there is a vinnette about this somewhere in that episode.. no time to watch the whole thing again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leJfEeULB5M

One more point, has anyone taken into account the ammo type from the m10? Could those rounds hitting the tiger be of rare apcb type? or a heat round? Could that account for a different penetration algorithm for the flat non angled armor plate on the tiger? My understanding of heat rounds in wwII is that they would tumble in flight and were unreliable (over 500m). Also read somewhere that American apcb rounds were finicky in the sense that the round would spall more (something to do with muzzle velocity) against sloped armor, but had better results against flat or high angled armor, which might account for why the panther seemed immune? I can't for the life of me think that Steve & co. actually wrote code for this variation, but then again, it wouldn't surprise me. I watched a history channel show that talked about the small gap underneath the turret mated to the chassis? That was a space where most American tank gunners would aim for, since if the round hit that space it would 1) penetrate and 2) jam the turret rotation? from the tests however, there is clearly a weak spot being modeled, wither it's correct or not is open to interpretation..

Hence my signature..

Who is Charles? And is he in charge? *that joke may be over some young peoples heads...

I want this one... ohhhh yummy...

So, the only time I lose an AT gun is when I "bail out", if I move the crew to a new location or move the crew back to the towing Opel or HT, I'm ok?? correct? Is that the rule to live by?

Sdkfz 251/21 - Schützenpanzerwagen mit Fla MG Drilling. Equipped with a triple-mount ("Drilling" in German means "triple") of MG151 autocannon; early version being MG151/15 mm cannon, later being MG151/20 mm Luftwaffe cannon. I want this...

I learned something on this thread.. thanks to all.. Panthers are better in the game..

This makes me want to finally read Otto Carius' Tigers in the Mud.. been wanting to do that for a few years now and just never got the chance..

I know you can't bail out and get back in for static placements. But, if they are towable, can you tow them into position deploy them and then move and retow like German le18 infantry gun? I know for static gun placements moving personnel is not possible to get out of the way. I've never tried this, but can AT teams move the gun as a team? To a different spot?

All we need are simple point decals (little black smudge) .. showing the impact point of the projectile. I would be more than happy with that instead of full on damage animations. I dont know why steve has chosen to not do this, with alll the hit/penetration text in all.. seems to me to be a simple code addition to the game.. christ, I could probably write the method for them if I had access to the source... PLEASE PUT HIT DEALS ON VEHICLES SHOWING IMPACT POINTS!!! This is my only gripe with the game...

Thanks for reminding me about quadratic equations. All they had to do in math class was tell me "this formula will help you solve artillery shell trajectories".. and I would have been all ears...