LUCASWILLEN05

It would be nice at some point - as it would be nice to have a near future Pacific Rim game. However we all know CMBS needs to be progressed first - as do the various WW2 scenarios

Yes this is one point that is certainly always been an issue for me. I would certainly like a winter war option for CMBS even if that only extends to the winter of 2017 - 18. Say September 2017 to the end of March 2018. I think everybody could live with that :-) Thermal sights as I understand the technology are affected by factors such as cold temperatures and snow which would certainly be a factor in the Russian winter. Whether the backstory is that the war breaks out in winter instead of in June or he ceasefire breaks down does not much matter. Either will do :-)

US ground forces would be fighting in Korea and maybe Taiwan, Possible intervention in the Indian Sub Continent.and perhaps forces deployed in an attempt to stop a Chines blitzkrieg into South East Asia early in the war. It is entirety possible the US suffers early defeats as the Allies did in 1940 with China overrunning much of the Asian mainland. For scenario purposes the Chinese advance could be brought to a halt somewhere in Central India thanks to the arrival of significant US reinforcements. For the next year or two the war in India effectively becomes a stalemate. Both sides can launch offensives which can gain (or retake) ground but neither side can win a decisive victory for the time being. Tactical level RoF games of course are representative of local actions against this operational and strategic framework. We get to play with often high tech forces in a previously untapped theater . We have never had a CM game depicting a war in Asia and perhaps it is time that changed. Regarding Russia, you may recall consideration of a US invasion of Siberia during the 1980s Cold War (the Lehman Doctrine) Since RoF covers a WW3 timeline it is only one front of the conflict. At some point the Lehman Doctrine might be implemented with an amphibious assault on the Siberian coastline aimed at securing the Far East Russian naval bases and perhaps natural resources in Siberia. Remember we are assuming an extended conventional war here with no nukes! f you want to simulate a nuclear war I suggest turning a blowtorch on your computer to simulate the effect! :-) Otherwise assume the war leaders are too scared of the consequences to risk using nukes! There are probably US War Plans for intervention in the sub continent, likely against Pakistan and possibly China. While most Wat Plans never get used one still plans for even the more unlikely scenarios

While there is at least on technothriller that does include a Chinese invasion of Alaska (Dragon's Fury by Jeff Head) I deliberately did not suggest Alaska as a theater of land warfare in this scenario. I also excluded Australia for the exact same reason. The areas where large scale land warfare might be a possibility are South East Asi, the Indian sub continent, Korea, possibly Taiwan and Japan (if PLAN can control the ea long enough for a landing to be attempted - and it would probably fail) Maybe Siberia and China late in a multi year long war) The above, given US seapower is what might b achievable for the PLA.the US would send expeditionary forces to support Korea and probably Taiwan. Conceivably also India if that nation were a US ally. There is more than enough here for a hypothetical land war in Asia. Of course all this is probably unlikely - but no more implausible than a game depicting a US intervention in Ukraine! The point is we have to suspend disbelief here and consider what might happen if a scenario actually happened. We get to game with new high tech armies in a new theater(like the PLA) and we get a wealth of new equipment like the Russian T-14 Armata and proliferation of 3rd Generation ATGMs available o both sides. We have a fine range of potential opponents such as India v Pakistan, India v China, North Korea v South Korea, China v Taiwan, China v Japan. And intervention forces from the US and Russia. All of which is virgin territory for Battlefront. It would certainly be possible to develop a back story for the involvement of US ground forces in a ground war. Korea, Taiwan and even India assuming for our purposes that the latter ends up allied to the US for this scenario - there are good reasons India may be hostile to China so there can be at least a temporary "alliance of convenience" if nothing else. t the end of the day it is a wargame - and no more "unrealistic" than mid 1980s "Sci Fi on the Rhine!" or NATO intervention in the Ukraine!

And I might not even invoice them for the service :-)

You clearly underestimate the importance of that international shipping route. While a lot of the trade will cfleary be from China a lot of it will be other trade such as Persian Gulf oil and produce from Japan and Taiwan. The interest of the United States will very obviously be at stake if there were a crisis or a conflict in the area. Why do you think the US Navy maintains a presence there http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-navy-plans-new-strategy-counter-beijing-south-china-sea-report-1606406 Why do you think there is a Chinese military buildup in the area? http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/12/chinas-military-and-naval-buildup-in-south-china-sea-threatens-the-us.html Why are both sides talking so tough? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-administration-keeps-talking-tough-152453691.html http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/27/asia/us-china-south-china-sea/index.html http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2017/01/13/China-warns-of-war-after-Rex-Tillersons-South-China-Sea-remarks/7511484317185/ Could it be that the Spratley Islands and the South China Sea is sme of the most important pieces of geostrategic real estate on the planet right now, certainly as far as China and the United States is concerned. Now supposing here were a shooting war in the South China Sea. Yes, shipping could be diverted but consider the economic costs of that http://tradeinmagazine.com/economics-finance/trade-news/the-economic-impact-of-the-south-china-sea-conflict/ What will the impact of that be on the markets and on the Western economy? Like I said wars have been fought over far less than this! The 1990 - 1991 Gulf War for example! Now hopefully this never turns into a real shooting war but, for war gaming purposes we have to assume the worst case scenario which in this case meas the US and China do end up in a shooting war and hat war involves extensive ground combat

Some more useful info covering territorial claims, natural gas an oil reserves which could result im a very big international conflagration starting here http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/28/asia/china-south-china-sea-disputes-explainer/index.html While such a war my begin at sea and whil the maritime conflict will be important a Combat Mission game must, by definition portray a ground war which is why it needs to include South East Asia, Korea, Taiwan etc. The India - Pakistan element requires a wild card (a Mumbai style terrorist attack) and China supporting their Pakistani ally - something that could happen a little later in the war. We don't have to involve all the belligerents from the start and he same goes for Russia which ight enter the war due to a crisis somewhere else in the world

Sorry but you continue to miss my point. What I am saying to you is that, given the number of flash points the potential for a July 1914 style crisis is there and that this is the most probable way for a big regional war to start in the Pacific Rim region. Nobody might intend or even want such a war just as nobody in Europe intended or wanted war in July 1914. Yet then, as now the conditions for a conflagration are in place. The tinderbox is only waiting for someone to light the fuse. Please take the time to read some of the links I have posted - like this one!!! http://www.cityam.com/245098/south-china-sea-powder-keg-disturbing-echoes-1914 The South China Sea is one of the most dangerous flashpoints considering the regional powers involved in the dispute and the vital international shipping route running straight through the South China Sea via the Malacca Straits. Take a minute to look at the map! https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/main-international-shipping-routes http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/18/why-disruption-in-the-south-china-sea-could-have-gigantic-consequences-for-global-trade.html Major wars have been fought over far less than this! A war starting in the South China Sea could well be the start of at the very least a massive regional war and very likely in fact a global conflagration - which is why a lot of peopl in the real world worry so much about the timny dots on the map called the Spratley Islands!

That is ok. The point is a lot of people are thinking a war between the US and China is a very possible near future scenario and there are good reasons for thinking this. We certainly would not want to portray the PLA or for that matter the Russians as a faceless horde, Rather the Shanghai Pact in Ring of Fire should be portrayed as a well equipped and cunning opponent. We might explore possibilities such as the effect of tactical hacking, in game terms I think that would be best handled in a similar abstract manner to the way the game handles electronic warfare. The new weapons systems such as the T-14 Armata and the proliferation of top attack ATGMs must also be represented in ROF. How would the M1A2 fare against the HJ-12 for example? The US no longer has a monopoly on ATGM top attack capability and that is going to pose some difficult challenges

I would not expect battlefield robots to be widespread until the middle of he century though that technology is starting to come into service now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_robot For a war in the early 2020s however we would be seeing today's technology bcoming more common. Javelin type ATGM Top Attack missiles are becoming more commonplace for example China's HT-12, the Israeli Spike, Japan's Type 01 LMAT, India's NAG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_(missile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_01_LMAT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_(missile)#Man_portable True, we don't have accurate data - and the same is true for CMBS. That is why I would not want a scenario any later than the early 2020s, say about five years from now. It would also be hard to develop a possible back story later than the early 2020s. That said there is nothing wrong at all with a mid 1980s game. Personally I find a near future scenario more interesting

By the way thee is a very good novel published by Jeff Head entitled Dragon's Fury centered around a war between the US and China starting circa 2005. While there are some detailed tactical ground fights most of the detailed action coves the naval battles and the rest is att war room level. Nevertheless a very good and thought provoking read

There are many different flashpoints for a major regional conflict or a WW3 situation within the region While few, if any people want war the danger is of a 1914 type crisis.A crisis or a combination of two or three almost concurrent crises develops and runs out of control much as the July 1914 Crisis did. A war of the sort I suggest for Ring of Fire will not be a deliberate choice even though many regional powers are preparing for war in the real world. It will rather be the result of chance, accident and miscalculation. China may have territorial designs but there is unlikely to be a nefarious plan for regional empire building. There does not have to be such a plan. There are the Chinese claims along the border with India, along he Vietnamese border, in the South China Sea (Spratley and Paracel Islands), on Taiwan and the Sengaku Islands dispute. I see he Spratley Islands as being one of the most likely and dangerous flashpoints as a conflict here involves a number of regional powers including Taiwan and Vietnam as well as China and has the potential to pull the US into war with China. Conflict over resources is certainly at the root of the Spratley Islands dispute. The back story to Ring of Fire could very well begin with a crisis over the Spratley Isands and naval warfare in the South China Sea. With China at war with Vietnam a Chinese land invasion of that nation is certainly believable - the two countries have fought before. It also brings China into war with Taiwan over their mutual claims in the South China Sea. Japan and the United States can be brought into the conflict through their attempts to protect he international shipping routes through the South China Sea via the Malacca Straits. North Korea enters the war when Kim Jong Un takes advantage of US attention on the war with China (and China might wel encourage North Korea to enter the war) to attack South Korea particularly with Chinese support. India and Pakistan become involved perhaps due to another Mumbai style attack traced back to Pakistan. China supports its ally Pakistan and both mount a combined invasion of India. Russia enters the war latter, perhaps due to a crisis in the Middle East or Eastern Europe. In RoF however we are only interested in the Pacific Rim/Indian Ocean Theater of WW3 - and a conflagration like this would clearly be a World War. The reason Russia would be included is so we can play with the T14 Armata :-) Also later in the war here are possibilities around the Lehman Doctrine idea involving a US landing in Siberia to seize Russian bases there and to threaten an eventual invasion of China from the north

Indeed China and India have fought before in 1962. China also has pretty good relations with Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China–Pakistan_relations http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/world/china-watch/business/china-rebuilds-port-in-pakistan/ There is always the possibility of China and India combining in an attack on India. In gaming terms including Chinese, Indian and Pakistani forces allows for a good range of gaming possibilities. There are a couple of rater good techno thrillers written by an Indian author by the name of Vivek Ahuja. The first, Chimera is about a Sino Indian War in 2014. The second, Fenix is set in the same timeline a year or two later and involves an Indo-Pakistani War. As well as the WW3 timeline I suggested Ring of Fire would also be usable for the gaming of regional conflicts like this which might not be viable Combat Mission titles in themselves. Other examples might include Korea nd Taiwan. Although a Sino Russian war is highly unlikely just now that also could be gamed. There would be so many different options potentially available under this title

I think th early to mid 2020s are as far as any CM game can go at the moment. I would certainly purchase both a mid 1980s and a 21st Century game subject of course to the technical specs of the game :-) On the 21st Century side of hings what interests me is how new weapons might cause future warfare to evolve in the next decade.

Indeed 1914 is the most likely model for a war like this on the Pacific Rim http://www.cityam.com/245098/south-china-sea-powder-keg-disturbing-echoes-1914 http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21598956-thoughtful-look-asias-dangerous-flashpoint-troubled-waters Perhaps the flashpoint will be the Spratley Islands which brings in several regional powers such as China, Taiwan and Vietnam as well as the potential o drag n he US (international shipping routes. Later crises can develop in Korea, over the Sengaku Isands and between India and Pakistan escalating the conflict towards a World War. Working out a back story for huge conflagration really is not all that hard

Then why do both the Chinese and the US think they will be fighting each other. Regarding equipment China has been modernizing their ground forces. The Type 99 n service 2001 and an update version the Type 99A in service 2014. This is considered a 3rd Generation tank Then there are Indian and Pakistani developments - the Arjun and Al Khaid respectively. India also purchased he T90S. Pakistan uses the T80U, India also fields the Nag ATGM which is their own fire and forget weapon comparable to Javelin. China seems to be developing similar weapons the HG-12http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/hj-12-top-attack-atgm.62027/ While many lesser Asian States won't have weapons anywhere near as advanced as this the major powers like India, Pakistan, South Korea and China do have advanced technology. No longer are we going to have a situation where top attack capability is limited to the US and UK. US enemies will be able to attack the M1A2 with this capability Sure, the smaller Asian nations will be under equipped and often their armies are no doubt poorly led in many cases. In a Ring of Fire scenario many of them could be overrun rather quickly in a PLAN Blitzkrieg if Beijing were minded to to it In fact the early phase of the war could be a 21st Century version of 1940. Assuming India sides with the US it is quite possible a large portion of India might be overrun early in the war. However, our scenario might well see US forces rushed to India eventually halting he Chinese/Pakistani invasion. India then becomes a major theater of land combat during the war. Something similar could happen in South Korea though the addition of Chinese armies and the proximity of China could be sufficient for the conquest of South Korea. Most or all of South East Asia probably will be overrun in the opening battles. Maybe China and Russia attempt amphibious invasions of Taiwan and Japan or perhaps just major Dieppe style raids but these will almost certainly be failures thanks to the intervention of the US 7th Fleet After the opening battles the major land fighting happens in India fo the most part. Perhaps both sides enjoy some success gainng and losing ground over the next couple of years. Eventually however he US Coalition builds up large enough armies for the final, decisive battles. As with the Allies during WW2 US control of the sea is probably going to be a decisive factor permitting the US to choose he time and place for amphibious landings rather like WW2. Who eventually wins or whether he war ends in a stalemate is a question I would leave open As for Chinese motives to get involved in a war against the US here are a few http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/04/seven_reasons_china_will_star_a_war_by_2017.html Most likely however a near future great power conflict in the region will be by accident, not by design. Much as WW1 started more or less by accident. Nobody in he summer of 1914 though war was likely but it happened.Maybe the same happens in the Ring of Fire scenario

It would be nice to see the Gurkhas as well as Australians and New Zealanders. British heavy armour would be very limited, presumably fighting on other fronts but we can use Australian ad New Zealand armoured vehicles as the next best thing

War between the US and China is in fact perfectly plausible now - as is war with Russia. While Ring of Fire is certainly the worst case (essentially WW3) Chinese generals certainly think China will at some point go to war with the US http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/29/us-china-war-increasingly-a-reality-chinese-army-official-says.html As do very senior figures ih the Trump Administration http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-china-war-be-end-of-life-earth-nuclear-weapons-apocalypse-steve-bannon-donald-trump-white-house-a7561821.html Russia, being currently hostile to the US and one of the most senior members of the SCO could very easily be a hostile belligerent in such a conflict. As for how such a war might start there are plenty of hot spots in the region hat could initiate crisis That is why I consider "Ring of Fire" to be an appropriate title It is also a passing reference to the volcanic Ring of Fire surrounding the Pacific Rim In geopolitical terms one might also consider the Pacific Rim to be a Ring of Fire http://apjjf.org/-Kimie-Hara/2211/article.html All it could take is a mishandled crisis and a 1914 like situation may develop, running out of control before anyon can stop it http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1140.html For a back story I would therefore suggest that the situation leading to war is modeled along similar lines to the July 1914 Crisis.The conflict is preceded by increasing tensons generated from the current disputes and perhaps trade wars Nobody rely expects or desires war in 2021 but a crisis develops in, let's say the South China Sea. At the same time a crisis erupts between India and Pakistan. Throw in one or two chance events and the entire region explodes into all out war. North Korea, backed by China invades South Korea. Russia and Japan are soon forced to enter the war . And here we have it. World War 3

Depends how we interpret "very fast" Combat very probably will be very high speed but that does not necessarily mean it will be a war of short duration. Like WW1 the initial battles may vbe fought over a few weeks or months Casualties and munitions usage will be very high.as was the case in 1914. What happens next if here is no decisive result, no political solution and he commanders are to scared of the consequences of going nuclear? This may be a situation that will have to be faced in the next war after the extremely fast, highly lethal and violent opening battles. Both sides are going to have similar technological capabilities in a Ring of Fire type scenario just as both sides had similar capabilities in August 1914 Then we have the same problem faced in 1915. You need to spend some time recruiting and training new armies. Anyway, the whole point of Ring of Fire is to show what he land element of such a war might look like and how commanders might try to deal with such a difficult and lethal combat environment - and to show why embarking on such a war in the real world could be such a bad idea. What we would see in ROF, unlike CMBS is he most up to date equipment of the US, Russia and China going up against each other in an even more intense combat environment than Black Sea (even drone hacking and similar might be included) It would also be in a theater never yet covered by Battlefront even if they only decided to cover the first six months initially. Covering an extended conflict would further be a vehicle to add new equipment coming on line in the real world within the expected time frame.

And here is how such a war might start and play out. An extended conflict involving the entire Pacific Rim and Indian sub continent (as part of a Third World War)seems like the worst case scenario, However it does have the best war gaming potential - and let us hope that is where it stays http://nationalinterest.org/feature/asia-flames-us-china-war-10621

A game like this set in a future Far East conflict can address questions like this http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-armata-tank-vs-americas-m-1-abrams-tow-missile-who-17719 Which should please those who want to see the T14 Armta and future US oppents like the M1A3. Alongside these of course we can see a plethora of different modern vehicles such as Pakistan's Al Khalid, India's Arjun, China's T-99, South Korea's K1. older as well as older equipment such as that used by North Korea and others All against a wide ariety of possible opponents in highly varied terrain

I am not saying a war like this would be a good idea. Just that a war game depicting such a conflict might well work as a war game. It can depict a range of regional conflicts that might not be viable games in themselves. allows for the use of cutting edge technologies that would certainly be employed (for example tactical usage of cyber hacking alongside more the more traditional electronic warfare in CMBS . What happens when drones or command systems get hacked?) Politically . over the next few years the preconditions for a conflict like this could develop. The early phases of the war might very wel see he US being driven off the Asian Mainland (or a large part f it) just like Britain was driven out of Europe in 1940. The much longer time frame allows for a US mobilization. recovery and liberation of Asia followed by, perhaps, final victory. We can of course have alternate timelines where the US loses or the war stalemates as we had in CMBS. The US would require an army of millions in this scenario and obviously the volunteer army would not be enough. The draft would have to be reintroduced and it would take a year or two at least to train and deploy a big enough army to win this extended conventional war scenario which is why the time frame might be something like 2021 - 2024 or 2025 rather than just a couple of months.

I would assume these units are reinforcements who arrive in that position later in the game.This is part of a wider battlefield situation. There is no reason at all that enemy forces (or yours for that matter) could not arrive on a flank.It is annoying and inconvenient when this happens to you but this sometimes happens in war - commanders have to deal with unexpected situations like this.Just consider ow Napoleon felt at Waterloo! :-)

Early on the UK might send an expeditionary force of some sort. Maybe Royal Marines, Paras etc.However, if Russia is also in the war alongside China there will almost certainly a war in Eastern Europe which is where heavy British forces will be.at this point. There would however be Australia and New Zealand forces instead - and a small British contingent may fight alongside them. Bearing in mind the game depicts an extended conventional war lasting two or three years (or longer more UK forces could arrive in theater at a later date Again I remind you we assume an extended conventional war for scenario and gaming purpose. No nukes!

Certainly in 3D at this level. There is Flashpoint Campaigns but his interface is essentially a board game, not a 3D tactical game like CM. It would certainly be a game I would buy but I think people are likely to prefer modern games set in the present day/near future. As posted on a different thread I would prefer a game set in the Pacific Rim and Indian Sub Continent area