Hetzer38
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Posts posted by Hetzer38
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Thank you very much for your post and the photo Russ!
Thank you also very much for all your hard work and devotion for your Stalingrad-project!
Simply amazing what you have achieved so far!
By looking at the Rasteraufnahme der deutschen Luftwaffe vom Norden Stalingrads vom 26. Oktober 1942, I found the spot where the photos where made.
Part of the original photo:
Russ' aerial photo "merged" with bigger part of the original Luftwaffe-Rasteraufnahme:
So the Landser on both photos ( 1, 2 ) were photographed on the southern slope of the Mamayev Kurgan, roughly 1200m (anyone in for a better guess?) away from the watertanks on the top...
Cheers, Hetzer38.
P.S. John, you've got mail!
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Could you maybe upload one or two photos to imageshack, so more people could view them?
Pretty please ?
I trust you already saw these photos, but just to be sure:
Vormarsch im Schutze einer Balka
(Advance in the safety of a ravine)
I believe the medic (Sani) in the lower left corner is the same one as in the photo you posted earlier.
( this one )Nice "action-shot" here:
Bombenabwurf über der chemischen Fabrik "Lazur" im Nordteil Stalingrads
(bomb-throw over the chemical factory "Lazur" in the northern part of Stalingrad)
Greetings, Hetzer38.
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Yup, bogus.
Anyway, anyone interested in actual battlefield investigation focussed on the effect of allied fighter-bombers / bombers against german AFVs / Soft skinned vehicles should read Ian Gooderson's "Air Power at the Battlefront"-case studies, London 1998.
Detailed after-battle-investigation of the following areas:
Roncey Pocket - La Baleine;
Mortain Area;
Falaise Pocket - 'Shambles' Area - 'Chase' Area;
Ardennes Salient;
...Allied Fighter-Bomber claims vs destruction attributed to various weapons...
(bombs, rockets, mg, destroyed by crew, abandoned, unknown cause)
Surprisingly, none of the investigated knocked-out german tanks had .50 cal penetrations in it's belly...
Cheers, Hetzer38.
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- Michael Wittman"The only thing I fear while in my Tiger is.........the .50 caliber."[ February 12, 2007, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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That's indeed an informational treasure!
Thank a lot to Russ Schulke for the info and the great photos and to you John for sharing the info!
Gheers, Hetzer38.
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"God damn it! We need some ammo!"
(...three HE grenades left...)
[Battle 4/5; Round 20/25+]
Yup, that's 25 tank-kills (plus 17 infantry casualities) caused by Uffz Heuer's Pz IIIG.
(6xBT-5s; 2xBT-7s; 6xT-26S; 2xT-26S M37; 2x OT-134 "Flamm"; 7xUnidentified Enemy Tank)
That's 1/6 of the russian's tank losses in this operation! :cool:
The russians must have lost 150+ tanks so far, and the few they have left are lurking around in the "forest of fire" (top right corner of the screenshot, east of point 311.5)...
Hope I can present an AAR soon!
BTW, a human russian player would have butchered me, there's no doubt about it! The russians have so much (some of it excellent, T-34s, KV-Is...) equipment, when put to good use the germans don't stand a chance.
IMO, playing the AI (even with +2 Exp) is very likely to result in a german victory (like in reality), so let's just pretend the poor russian (AI) performance is due to poor leadership, bad communication and mechanical failures.
Besides, that way I'm able to win despite my poor tactical decisions!
Cheers, Hetzer38.
[ February 11, 2007, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Well, Babelfish certainly has it's flaws, but here's the translation of Chuikov's memoirs of his command post on MK:
Hell, at least we get an idea of how Chuikov's CP on MK looked, a dirty hole in a ravine named Krylov's Shelter, (where they made the initial planning & stuff) and how the "control center" right on top of MK looked: an even dirtier hole in the ground plastered by fire, giving a panoramic view of the battlefield....After leaving machine, it rose on foot to the barrow, being caught in the darkness for the bushes, for some prickles. Finally long-awaited shout of the hour: - Stoy! Who goes? Control center. Ravine, freshug-dig out slots are shelters. Mamaev is barrow! Could 4 then assume that it will become the place of the highest stress it is combat for Stalingrad, that here, on this scrap will remain not one living places, neperekopannogo the explosions of projectiles and aircraft bombs......Krylov's Shelter. This and not shelter in a strict sense of word. Wide slot, covered by brushwood and straw. Above the brushwood and the straw to desyat'-dvadtsat' the centimeters of earthen mound. On one side of slot earthen bench, on other side earthen bed and earthen table. Overlap shudders from the explosions of projectiles. Germans already fire city and barrow. Systematic firing on the areas, yet not on the purposes. The maps are decomposed on the table. The earth falls on them...
In shelter two: General Krylov with the hand receiver in the hand and on-duty telephonist Helen Bakarevich, the blue-eyed girl of the years of eighteen. Krylov with someone sharply talks. His voice sounds solidly, loudly, rasserzhenno. Bakarevich sits at the entrance with two tubes on the ears and it answers someone...
...To our control center, which was being located on the very apex of Mamaev barrow, by shower fell the mines, projectiles and bombs of enemy. I worked in one shelter with the wing and from time to time together with it it left to the stereoscopic telescope in order to control the motion of battle.
Several shelters were broken, there were losses, also, in the personnel of the staff of army...
BTW, Chuikov uses a nice term for the defense of Stalingrad in his memoirs, he calls it "the attacking defense".
Edit:
Well, yea, ****ty babelfish translation but interesting info and it definetly sounds like NO FUN AT ALL to move your hq around during a battle like this...There is no earth after the Volga for us! To the dawn on 14 September the control center of army moved into the so-called Tsaritsynskoye cave. This was the large shelter- tunnel, divided into tens of sections, ceilings and walls of which were sheathed by boards. During August the staff of Stalingrad Front was placed here. The thickness of upper earthen overlap reached ten it was meter; only bomb weighing of ton could open it, and that not everywhere. Shelter had two outputs: lower conducted to the bed of river tsarina, and upper - to Puskinskaya street. From Mamaev barrow I left together with the wing before the dawn on 14 September. Gurov left earlier......As the conductor around the city us accompanied the deputy chief of the armored and mechanized troops of army Lieutenant Colonel m. g. vaynrub. In the sky German night aircraft turned; with the light of fires they looked out purposes and bombed them. We scolded themselves among the ruins and the destroyed streets. Meters in five hundred from the new control center my machine was tangled in the telephone and telegraphic wires and stopped. Stopped Krylov's machine, in which was located Vaynrub. We were detained minute to three, and in this time not far from our machines were torn more than ten small bombs. Fortunately, no one of us reserve, and we satisfactorily reached the purpose. To sleep and to rest was there is no time. At the new place for me it was necessary very to verify connection, readiness of troops for the counterattack. Everything proceeded normally. Apparently, enemy troops, besides night aviation, rested or were prepared for the day actions...
Neperekopannogo, Hetzer38.
[ February 09, 2007, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Edit:
Lol! Yea, good one!Originally posted by John Kettler:...Armed with the latest info, may I now confidently assert that had Chuikov actually had his CP in the balka I thought, a Luftwaffe strike on the tanks atop Mamayev Kurgan might've drowned him?...
But - considering he survived all the other stuff - NO, Chui wouldn't have drowned.
That guy was to tough to die in such an unspectacular way!
I too find this whole theme very fascinating, I've spent the last two hours (or so) searching for more info - and it was fun!
Edit-End.
Here's another view of the top of the hill, taken in winter 1943.
[ source ]
Seems to be a Sturmgeschütz III B in front of the earth- and snow-covered water tanks...
The next photo is captioned "Victorious flag at the apex of Mamaev the barrow".
( Babelfish-translation )
[ source ]
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I've also found the (russian) Memoirs by Vasili Chuikov: Battle of a century -
in which he describes his experiences during the Battle of Stalingrad.
Maybe someone who's able to read russian language could have a look ?
Or someone crazy enough would like to give it a try with Babelfish ?
[...chapter 5 is about "Mamaev the barrow"...]
Cheers, Hetzer38.
[ February 09, 2007, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Mmhh, lovely!
Good to see another WIP by you!
Cheers, Hetzer38.
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Take a look at this WIP screenie of Mamayev summit for CC3 Stalingrad series.
Doesn't look that bad!
(O.k., the house-ruin doesn't really fit in...)
There's also an already finished scenario showing Chuikov's HQ near the Tsaritsa river.
Here you'll find a CC5 Stalingrad Mod scenario called "Mamayev", unfortunately I cannot download it...(can you?)
[ February 09, 2007, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Lol, yea, almost!Originally posted by Melnibone:...It's almost as if there was a battle raging which could have caused some of the confusion.
Chuikov should know best where he was!17 Sep 1942...During the night Chuikov moved his HQ from the Tsaritsa gully to a position on the Volga river bank, 800 m north of the Red October Factory (Beevor, 1999; Chuikov, 1963). This was an unprotect site just under some giant oil-storage tanks. The latter were assumed to be empty but subsequently this was found to be incorrect...
2 Oct 1942...German artillery or bombers hit the oil storage tanks near Chuikov's HQ and set the oil alight (Beevor, 1999; Erickson, 1993; Fowler, 2005)...
7 Oct 1942...Chuikov moved his HQ to Sarayev's now vacated dug-out on the Volga bank (Erickson, 1993)...
Mon 14 Oct 1942...At sometime Chuikov moved his HQ again (Beevor, 1999)...
[Also from The Stalingrad Academy of Street Fighting . ]17 Oct 1942Overnight, with the Germans approaching the Barrikady Factory, Chuikov moved his HQ yet again (Beevor, 1999; Chuikov, 1963; Erickson, 1993). They first tried the Banny gully but ended up on the river bank level with the Mamayev Kurgan...
...A strong German force broke through near Mamayev Kurgan and Chuikov's HQ but were forced back in a counter-attack (Beevor, 1999)...
*sigh*
So we have five Chukov commad posts in the city during the battle ?
Anybody more ?
Cheers, Hetzer38.
[ February 09, 2007, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Sun 12 Sep 1942
Yeremenko sacked the commander of the 62nd Army (Lopatin) and replaced him with Chuikov of the 64th Army (Beevor, 1999; Chuikov, 1963; Erickson, 1993, mistakenly says Chuikov was appointed on 10 Sep). That night Chuikov headed across the river into the city to find his HQ on Mamayev Kurgan, otherwise known as Hill 102 (apparently it feature some water tanks) . Incidentally Chuikov crossed at the same time as T-34s were being ferried across.
13 Sep 1942...The 71st Infantry Division attacked Mamayev Kurgan. South of them 76th and 295th Infantry Divisions attacked toward the Stalingrad-1 railway station and the central landing stage. (Clark says the main hospital was an objective; Beevor says the hospital was near where the Tsaritsa gully opens into the Volga, so presumably this was the same objective as the Central Landing stage). Chuikov (1963) gives the Germans only one division and 40-50 tanks in this attack, which is probably a considerable underestimate. He does, however, say the Germans brought up reserves during the day and also launched pinning attacks in the north and south. In the north a battalion attacked the Soviet brigade blocking the way to Orlovka; the attackers were wiped out. In the south individual battalions attacked the composite regiment holding the Russian line; the defenders abandoned the machine and tractor station east of Sadovaya Station. In the centre the Germans took Hill 126.3, Aviagorodok and the hospital. The central defenders were pushed back to the western edge of a wood to the west of the Barrikady and Red October settlements. German artillery shot up Chuikov's HQ on top of Mamayev Kurgan...
The info above and much more detailed info about the fighting can be found at the14 Sep 1942By morning of 14 Sep one Soviet armoured brigade (Khopko) had only one tank (Chuikov, 1963). Two other armoured brigade already had none. They were subsequently transferred to the east bank to reform.
As the German artillery had pounded Chuikov's HQ at Mamayev Kurgan the previous day, just before dawn on 14 Sep he moved it to the Tsaritsyn bunker in the Tsaritsa gully at the Pushkin Street bridge (Beevor, 1999; Chuikov, 1963; Clark, 1965; Fowler, 2005).
The Stalingrad Academy of Street Fighting .
Fascinating stuff!
Greetings, Hetzer38.
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And here's the whole (Edit - well, not really) story about Chuikov's command HQs in Staligrad:
So he moved his HQ three times (maybe even more often?), and John was right in saying that Chuikov had a command post (...for two days...) on MK!...12th September...That evening Chuikov crossed the Volga by ferry and then travelled to his Army HQ on the Mamayev Kurgan...... On the 14th of September he moved his HQ from the Kurgan and into the Tsaritsa Gorge...
...On the 17th of October, Chuikov moved his HQ again, this time right back to the riverbank of the Volga and here it remained until the end of the battle...
Damn! Now we have to find the other spot(s)as well!
Cheers, Hetzer38.
[ February 09, 2007, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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And - believe it or not - I even found a picture of it!Originally posted by Melnibone:.
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8) Chuikov’s headquarters (Red Army and defender of Stalingrad)
9) 389. Infanterie Division H.Q.
Which depicts Chuikov’s HQ on the Volga by the Barrikady!
Rodimtsev and Chuykov former HQ bunkers.
Stalingrad, Autumn 1943.
[same source as the first pic in my previous post.]
Man, this is fun!
Greetings, Hetzer38.
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I found another goodie, a photo of the top of of Mamaev Hill after the battle.
Top of Mamaev Hill ( water tanks). Arrow - first small memorial mark. Summer 1943.
[Compare with the the two blue round structures on top of MK on the 3d image by Russ.]
source: Russia and the Soviet Union in pictures 1900 > 2000
The watertanks seem to have been buried during the fighting, this photo claims to show part of the same spot after the battle in february 1943.
Der hart umkämpfte Mamajew-Hügel, genannt "Höhe 102", nach den Kämpfen im Februar 1943.
source: Privates Antiquariat Stalingrad
Greetings, Hetzer38.
[ February 19, 2007, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Could well be, I'll try to find some more proof for this !Originally posted by John Kettler:...Seems to me that the balka which fits that description is the one just to the right of the image superimposed by Hetzer38, in the right foreground of the larger image. Sure looks to me as though the ground slopes that way. What do the rest of you think?
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BTW, I just found the "Uber"-Stalingrad-photo!
Rasteraufnahme der deutschen Luftwaffe vom Norden Stalingrads vom 26. Oktober 1942.
This shows a brilliant aerial shot of the northern part of Stalingrad, including a fine view of MK and it's terraces on October 26th, 1942.
Make sure to check out the rest of the site's photos too!
(if you haven't already!)
Greetings, Hetzer38.
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Sorry for ruining your day Richie,
but I thought it would be better to clear this up!
Just to make it complete, I made another quick 'n dirty overlay
with John's picture on another 3d pic by Russ.
Original:
Overlay:
So, John's photo shows the northeastern slope of "hill 102", correct ?
Best Regards, Hetzer.
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Edit: Thank you very much for the clarification Melnibone
and your thoughts about the matter Philippe!
I made a quick 'n dirty overlay with Paint Shop Pro, and - well, see for yourself:
Although both pics don't match exactly (cause of different viewing-angles), I think it's quite safe to say that Richie's aerial photo shows a part of the "Tennisschläger", and John Kettler's photo shows a part of the "Höhe 102" (Mamaev Hill).
I agree that the heavy bombardment on Mamaev hill changed the landscape very drastically, but we don't know if the terracing was destroyed completly by just comparing Richie's and John's pictures.
Best Regards, Hetzer.
[ February 08, 2007, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Sorry for my mistake !
Could you please mark the spot of the Mamayev Kurgan on one of the 3d photos ?
I fear I'm completly confused without your help!
Greetings, Hetzer.
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Hmmm, there are roads, part of a railroad (?) and buildings in the second photo, in the first there's no sign of them. Looks more like some part of the tennis-racket to me!
My guess is that you have photos of different places here.
Greetings, Hetzer.
[ February 08, 2007, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Ja scheiss die Wand an! :eek:
Unbelievable how many documents are out there - for free!
Just downloaded a dozen pdfs, need more...
Damn, I'll never have enough time for ALL OF THIS!
Thank you so much Harry!
Greetings, Hetzer.
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Me too!Originally posted by John Kettler:... Blew me away.
Regards,
John Kettler
Great source John, thank you very much for sharing!
Damn, I need more free time!
Greetings, Hetzer38.
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Yea, bugger tv!
Lovely Mod with gorgeous optoins!
Vielen herzlichen Dank!
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Just lovely!
You know how to bring a smile to my face after a long day of hard work!
Danke Mann!
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Most interesting article !
Thanks a lot for sharing !
( 
Er, Two Mamayev Kurgan goodies for Richie
in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Posted
Russ, thank you so much for sharing these fascinating photos and the information!
Most people would never notice such errors as you have pointed out!
What would you say, how far is it from "Dolgi Gully"
(just behind the Landsers we see in photos 1 & 2) to the watertanks ?
Cheers, Hetzer38.
P.S.
Could you please link the amazing
"MK from the Red October factory July 2006"-photo?
...It's a bit big, you know!