Hetzer38
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Posts posted by Hetzer38
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That's true Sergei, but the only "real" gun-camera film showing the BK 3,7 at work is the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg(01:40) posted by ParaBellum; and I think there can only be little doubt that this clip shows 37mm HE rounds being fired from several Ju87 "cannonbirds" of "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" at soviet shipping in the Kuban-area February 1943...Originally posted by Sergei:Keep in mind that these news reels could have been edited out of who knows how many clips,...
The "Stettin-March-1945" scene (films 1 + 2) shows a Ju87G filmed from the ground, and the "Rudel vs tanks" scene (films 3 + 4) shows a Ju87G filmed from another aircraft, and there's (very) little doubt what kind of aircraft was filmed.
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 08, 2007, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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BTW, did you know that you can (really) easily download all the YouTube vids by using this (free) Online FLV Converter ?
JU87G "films" (...found so far...)
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m63oJu39EPk(01:47) posted by Tero;
- Stettin, March 1945 - a lone Ju87G (Rudel?)makes two strafing runs on russian tanks,...
* "Stukas in 1945"(01:40);
- Hs129s and Ju87Gs attacking soviet tanks on the snow-covered fields of Pomerania (January/February 1945);
- "Stettin sequence" of the lone Ju87G....slightly better quality then the first vid...
...looks (and sounds) to me that the Ju87G fires 5 shots (bursts?) in the first and 3 shots (bursts?) in the second attack-run...?
* "Documentary on Stukas"(04:18);
- Celebration of 100,000th sortie flown by Stukageschwader 2;
- Ju87Ds dive-bombing and making low-level "Steckrübenwurf" bomb-attacks against soviet armour;
- Rudel making two attack-runs on soviet tanks in his Ju-87G, firing one burst of two rounds during each attack.
* "Rudel vs. Russian tanks"(00:28);
- ...short version of the vid above, just showing Rudel in action...
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg(01:40) posted by ParaBellum;
- February 1943 - battle of the Kuban Bridgehead. Modified Ju87D-3 of "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" in action against soviet shipping and landing craft (Rudel was credited with destroying 70 of these craft after a month).
- The film shows eight attack runs (one against two targets) of the "Kanonenvögel" against soviet shipping...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 07, 2007, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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BTW, did you know that you can (really) easily download all the YouTube vids by using this (free) Online FLV Converter ?
JU87G "films" (...found so far...)
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m63oJu39EPk(01:47) posted by Tero;
- Stettin, March 1945 - a lone Ju87G (Rudel?)makes two strafing runs on russian tanks,...
* "Stukas in 1945"(01:40);
- Hs129s and Ju87Gs attacking soviet tanks on the snow-covered fields of Pomerania (January/February 1945);
- "Stettin sequence" of the lone Ju87G....slightly better quality then the first vid...
...looks (and sounds) to me that the Ju87G fires 5 shots (bursts?) in the first and 3 shots (bursts?) in the second attack-run...?
* "Documentary on Stukas"(04:18);
- Celebration of 100,000th sortie flown by Stukageschwader 2;
- Ju87Ds dive-bombing and making low-level "Steckrübenwurf" bomb-attacks against soviet armour;
- Rudel making two attack-runs on soviet tanks in his Ju-87G, firing one burst of two rounds during each attack.
* "Rudel vs. Russian tanks"(00:28);
- ...short version of the vid above, just showing Rudel in action...
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg(01:40) posted by ParaBellum;
- February 1943 - battle of the Kuban Bridgehead. Modified Ju87D-3 of "Panzerjagdkommando Weiss" in action against soviet shipping and landing craft (Rudel was credited with destroying 70 of these craft after a month).
- The film shows eight attack runs (one against two targets) of the "Kanonenvögel" against soviet shipping...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 07, 2007, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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ULTRA-sexy beast!
Thank you so much (again!) for all your hard work Mikey!
Cheers, Hetzer.
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Completly off-topic, but still interesting...and since there was a lot of talking about ships...
Stuka's eye-view of the attack. Beneath an umbrella of anti-aircraft fire the blunt bows of the burning Illustrious are clearly visible, bottom left, as she tries to escape further damage. A light cruiser crosses her wake, top right.
[from: Osprey Aviation - Junker Ju 87 over the Mediterranean]...Shortly after midday on 10 January the ships' radar screens picked up a large formation of enemy aircraft bearing down on them from the north.The approaching force comprised 43 Ju87s; Major Enneccerus' II./StG 2 in the van, closely attended by Hauptmann Hozzel's I./StG1.
A carefullly timed low-level strike against Valiant by Italian SM.79 torpedo-bombers had drawn off the Illustrious' standing combat air patrol of Fulmar fighters. Now ten of the Stukas peeled off to make diversionary dive-bombing attacks on the two battleships. With the latters' anti-aircraft gunners fully engaged, and a newly launched patrol of Fulmars still desperately clawing for height, the Illustrious was forced to rely solely on her own high-angle batteries for self-protection. But these were unable to prevent the carnage which followed as the Stukas began to circle some 4,000 metres above the vessel, each positioning itself ready for the dive.
Admiral Cunningham, C-inC Mediterranean, witnessed the assault from the bridge of the Warspite: "There was no doubt we were watching complete experts. Formed roughly in a large circle over the fleet they peeled off one by one when reaching the attacking position. We could not but admire the skill and precision of it all. The attacks were pressed home to point-blank range, and as they pulled out of their dives some of them were seen to fly along the flight-deck of the Illustrious below the level of her funnel...
at times, she became completly hidden in a forest of great bomb splashes."
The first bomb struck the carrier just eight minutes after the initial radar sighting. It plunged through a gun position into the ship's hull to explode at water level. The second hit for'ard close to her bows, and a third demolished another gun mounting alongside her bridge island. The fourth smashed directly on to the descending after lift, wreaking havoc among the aircraft on the hangar deck below and knocking out all the after guns. Incredibly, another pilot placed his bomb down the same after lift well two minutes later, adding to the inferno as ammunition and aviation fuel exploded. A sixth and final bomb tore through the armoured flight-deck before detonating deep inside the ship.
Asked to score four direct hits, the Stukas had in fact delivered no less than six, plus three almost equally damaging near misses (one of which, exploding close alongside, had burst open the for'ard lift, fanning the smoke and flames from the after hangar space like a blowtorch along the full length of the ship). But by some miracle her engines had remained untouched. And while damage control parties fought the fires, the Illustrious - steering by main engines only - set course for the dubious haven of Malta. Despite two further attacks she reached the island that same evening and was taken into Valetta dockyard...
...three Stukas were lost ("missing") in the attacks on the Illustrious on 10th January...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 06, 2007, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Completly off-topic, but still interesting...and since there was a lot of talking about ships...
Stuka's eye-view of the attack. Beneath an umbrella of anti-aircraft fire the blunt bows of the burning Illustrious are clearly visible, bottom left, as she tries to escape further damage. A light cruiser crosses her wake, top right.
[from: Osprey Aviation - Junker Ju 87 over the Mediterranean]...Shortly after midday on 10 January the ships' radar screens picked up a large formation of enemy aircraft bearing down on them from the north.The approaching force comprised 43 Ju87s; Major Enneccerus' II./StG 2 in the van, closely attended by Hauptmann Hozzel's I./StG1.
A carefullly timed low-level strike against Valiant by Italian SM.79 torpedo-bombers had drawn off the Illustrious' standing combat air patrol of Fulmar fighters. Now ten of the Stukas peeled off to make diversionary dive-bombing attacks on the two battleships. With the latters' anti-aircraft gunners fully engaged, and a newly launched patrol of Fulmars still desperately clawing for height, the Illustrious was forced to rely solely on her own high-angle batteries for self-protection. But these were unable to prevent the carnage which followed as the Stukas began to circle some 4,000 metres above the vessel, each positioning itself ready for the dive.
Admiral Cunningham, C-inC Mediterranean, witnessed the assault from the bridge of the Warspite: "There was no doubt we were watching complete experts. Formed roughly in a large circle over the fleet they peeled off one by one when reaching the attacking position. We could not but admire the skill and precision of it all. The attacks were pressed home to point-blank range, and as they pulled out of their dives some of them were seen to fly along the flight-deck of the Illustrious below the level of her funnel...
at times, she became completly hidden in a forest of great bomb splashes."
The first bomb struck the carrier just eight minutes after the initial radar sighting. It plunged through a gun position into the ship's hull to explode at water level. The second hit for'ard close to her bows, and a third demolished another gun mounting alongside her bridge island. The fourth smashed directly on to the descending after lift, wreaking havoc among the aircraft on the hangar deck below and knocking out all the after guns. Incredibly, another pilot placed his bomb down the same after lift well two minutes later, adding to the inferno as ammunition and aviation fuel exploded. A sixth and final bomb tore through the armoured flight-deck before detonating deep inside the ship.
Asked to score four direct hits, the Stukas had in fact delivered no less than six, plus three almost equally damaging near misses (one of which, exploding close alongside, had burst open the for'ard lift, fanning the smoke and flames from the after hangar space like a blowtorch along the full length of the ship). But by some miracle her engines had remained untouched. And while damage control parties fought the fires, the Illustrious - steering by main engines only - set course for the dubious haven of Malta. Despite two further attacks she reached the island that same evening and was taken into Valetta dockyard...
...three Stukas were lost ("missing") in the attacks on the Illustrious on 10th January...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 06, 2007, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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...BTW "some", does that mean, one, two, or thousands? How do you verify a kill from watching a tape?Originally posted by Andreas:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hetzer38:
Where have all the Ju87G gun-camera films gone?
(They did have gun-cameras aboard, didn't they? Wouldn't that explain how some "Luftwaffe-eyewitnesses-only-claims" were "confirmed", by just viewing the "tape"?)
... </font>
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...BTW "some", does that mean, one, two, or thousands? How do you verify a kill from watching a tape?Originally posted by Andreas:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hetzer38:
Where have all the Ju87G gun-camera films gone?
(They did have gun-cameras aboard, didn't they? Wouldn't that explain how some "Luftwaffe-eyewitnesses-only-claims" were "confirmed", by just viewing the "tape"?)
... </font>
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Some more info on Kronstadt, 1941...
[from:Above: A battleship becomes a target. At Kronstadt naval base, near Leningrad, lurked the Soviet Baltic fleet with two battleships and a host of lesser vessels. In a series of heavy dive-bombing attacks, mounted between 21 and 24 September 1941, one of the larger vessels, the Marat, had her bows blown off. The other battleship, Oktyabrskaya Revolutsia (23,000 tons), was heavily damaged by a series of direct hits from the Stukas of the I. and III./St.G. 2 "Immelmann" under Major Oskar Dinort. Here the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsia is seen from the attacking dive-bombers, surrounded by the splashes of near-misses and with the smoke of one direct hit forward being joined by a second hit on the port side aft. In all, she was hit by six medium-sized bombs. She had to be towed to Leningrad to be repaired. In further attacks on 4 April, 1942, an assault by sixty-two Ju87s from the III./St.G.1 and the II./St.G.2 claimed to have hit her again four times. The Stukas carried special 1000kg bombs, designed to penetrate battleship armour, on these missions. (Franz Selinger)Stukas over the Steppe - The Blitzkrieg in the East, 1941-1945, by Peter C. Smith]
Cheers, Hetzer38.
[ March 06, 2007, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Some more info on Kronstadt, 1941...
[from:Above: A battleship becomes a target. At Kronstadt naval base, near Leningrad, lurked the Soviet Baltic fleet with two battleships and a host of lesser vessels. In a series of heavy dive-bombing attacks, mounted between 21 and 24 September 1941, one of the larger vessels, the Marat, had her bows blown off. The other battleship, Oktyabrskaya Revolutsia (23,000 tons), was heavily damaged by a series of direct hits from the Stukas of the I. and III./St.G. 2 "Immelmann" under Major Oskar Dinort. Here the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsia is seen from the attacking dive-bombers, surrounded by the splashes of near-misses and with the smoke of one direct hit forward being joined by a second hit on the port side aft. In all, she was hit by six medium-sized bombs. She had to be towed to Leningrad to be repaired. In further attacks on 4 April, 1942, an assault by sixty-two Ju87s from the III./St.G.1 and the II./St.G.2 claimed to have hit her again four times. The Stukas carried special 1000kg bombs, designed to penetrate battleship armour, on these missions. (Franz Selinger)Stukas over the Steppe - The Blitzkrieg in the East, 1941-1945, by Peter C. Smith]
Cheers, Hetzer38.
[ March 06, 2007, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Undead reindeer cavalry, I've updated the "list" again, now it's 4363 tanks...
Of the 78 listed pilots, the majority are Sturzkampf- (St.G.) or Schlachtgeschwader (SG) - pilots. Those 10 pilots who flew for 10.(Pz)-Staffeln were dedicated anti-tank flyboys.
Then there are some Zerstörer- (ZG) and Kampfgeschwader (KG) pilots and a single fighter-only-jockey...
(Hptm. Ernst-Wilhelm Reinert- RK 01/07/42 - JG 77, JG 27, JG 7 - 10 tanks / 174 aircraft).
ParaBellum, great video! Thank you very much for sharing!
It's sad that the quality is so poor...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 06, 2007, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Undead reindeer cavalry, I've updated the "list" again, now it's 4363 tanks...
Of the 78 listed pilots, the majority are Sturzkampf- (St.G.) or Schlachtgeschwader (SG) - pilots. Those 10 pilots who flew for 10.(Pz)-Staffeln were dedicated anti-tank flyboys.
Then there are some Zerstörer- (ZG) and Kampfgeschwader (KG) pilots and a single fighter-only-jockey...
(Hptm. Ernst-Wilhelm Reinert- RK 01/07/42 - JG 77, JG 27, JG 7 - 10 tanks / 174 aircraft).
ParaBellum, great video! Thank you very much for sharing!
It's sad that the quality is so poor...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 06, 2007, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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I found two Rechlin drawings @ IL2-forums...
1. E'Stelle Rechlin E6 -- FL - Bordwaffen-Munition --
3,7cm H-Pzgr. Patr. L'spur o. Zerl.
2. E'Stelle Rechlin E6 -- FL - Bordwaffen-Munition --
3,7cm H-Pzgr.L'spur o. Zerl.
3,7cm Hartkern-Panzergranate Leuchtspur ohne Zerleger
-> 3,7cm hardcore-AP tracer w/o self-destruction
Cheers, Hetzer.a wolfram-carbide core in a housing of aluminium.the numbers for penetration are
at 90 degrees
@100m = 140mm
@600m = 95mm
at 60 degrees
@100m = 69mm
@600m = 47mm
V0=1150Ms
tracer burns for 1200meters (1.5 sec)
weight 405 gram
[ March 05, 2007, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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I found two Rechlin drawings @ IL2-forums...
1. E'Stelle Rechlin E6 -- FL - Bordwaffen-Munition --
3,7cm H-Pzgr. Patr. L'spur o. Zerl.
2. E'Stelle Rechlin E6 -- FL - Bordwaffen-Munition --
3,7cm H-Pzgr.L'spur o. Zerl.
3,7cm Hartkern-Panzergranate Leuchtspur ohne Zerleger
-> 3,7cm hardcore-AP tracer w/o self-destruction
Cheers, Hetzer.a wolfram-carbide core in a housing of aluminium.the numbers for penetration are
at 90 degrees
@100m = 140mm
@600m = 95mm
at 60 degrees
@100m = 69mm
@600m = 47mm
V0=1150Ms
tracer burns for 1200meters (1.5 sec)
weight 405 gram
[ March 05, 2007, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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John, I thought the 120mm penetration ability "claim" was way high, now this lists the "Hartkernmunition" fired by the BK 37 as being able to penetrate
140mm @ 100m @ 90°... :eek:
from: TANKBUSTERS: AIRBORNE ANTI-TANK GUNS IN WW2The remaining German guns were all adaptations of ground guns. The first was the 37 mm BK 3,7, a modified version of the FlaK 18 AA gun firing the same 37x263B ammunition. This meant that it was bulky, heavy and slow-firing by comparison with the NS-37, for example. It also remained clip-fed, with a maximum capacity of just 12 rounds. It mainly fired Hartkernmunition ammo, capable of penetrating up to 140 mm / 100 m / 90 degrees although this was halved at a striking angle of 60 degrees.According to this site, the BK 3,7's 37x263B cartridge's projectile weighed 405 grams. Muzzle Velocity: 1,140 m/s, Muzzle Energy: 263,000 joules.
Rate of fire for the BK 3,7: 160 rpm.
Make sure to see rest of this freakin' detailed site comparing the air-to-ground-anti-tank equipment used by the USSR / Germany / GBR / USA in WWII.
Comparisment of different guns and cartridges (plus Cartridge Illustrations, YUMYUM:-) and weapon platforms...and info and stuff!
Edit:
Here, here and here are more photos of 37x263B rounds...
from TONY WILLIAMS' AMMUNITION PHOTO GALLERY.
BTW...
Where have all the Rechlin penetration-charts gone?
Where have all the Ju87G gun-camera films gone?
(They did have gun-cameras aboard, didn't they? Wouldn't that explain how some "Luftwaffe-eyewitnesses-only-claims" were "confirmed", by just viewing the "tape"?)
Damn, I bet they're locked up secure somewhere "über den Teich".
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 05, 2007, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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John, I thought the 120mm penetration ability "claim" was way high, now this lists the "Hartkernmunition" fired by the BK 37 as being able to penetrate
140mm @ 100m @ 90°... :eek:
from: TANKBUSTERS: AIRBORNE ANTI-TANK GUNS IN WW2The remaining German guns were all adaptations of ground guns. The first was the 37 mm BK 3,7, a modified version of the FlaK 18 AA gun firing the same 37x263B ammunition. This meant that it was bulky, heavy and slow-firing by comparison with the NS-37, for example. It also remained clip-fed, with a maximum capacity of just 12 rounds. It mainly fired Hartkernmunition ammo, capable of penetrating up to 140 mm / 100 m / 90 degrees although this was halved at a striking angle of 60 degrees.According to this site, the BK 3,7's 37x263B cartridge's projectile weighed 405 grams. Muzzle Velocity: 1,140 m/s, Muzzle Energy: 263,000 joules.
Rate of fire for the BK 3,7: 160 rpm.
Make sure to see rest of this freakin' detailed site comparing the air-to-ground-anti-tank equipment used by the USSR / Germany / GBR / USA in WWII.
Comparisment of different guns and cartridges (plus Cartridge Illustrations, YUMYUM:-) and weapon platforms...and info and stuff!
Edit:
Here, here and here are more photos of 37x263B rounds...
from TONY WILLIAMS' AMMUNITION PHOTO GALLERY.
BTW...
Where have all the Rechlin penetration-charts gone?
Where have all the Ju87G gun-camera films gone?
(They did have gun-cameras aboard, didn't they? Wouldn't that explain how some "Luftwaffe-eyewitnesses-only-claims" were "confirmed", by just viewing the "tape"?)
Damn, I bet they're locked up secure somewhere "über den Teich".
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 05, 2007, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Indeed he does, and so do you!Originally posted by MikeyD:Yeh, I was waiting all morning for the chance up upload! ColumbusOHGamer deserves a medal for keeping cmmods.com running all this time.
Damn, I really suck at expressing myself in english and at making comments on your work, I know, but I love your Mods !
Tausend Dank Mikey !
Cheers, Hetzer
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Right, Lexikon der Wehrmacht also lists the Panzergranate mit Leuchtspur as avaiable ammunition for the 3,7-cm-Flak 18/36...Originally posted by John Kettler:Hetzer38,
... None of the above 3 is PzGr 40 Hart Kerne (T/HVAP/APCR) ammo or even PzGr 38, APHE. Thus, I think there's something wrong with the list.
Regards,
John Kettler
Edit:
And please have a look at my post in the CMBB-cross-post regarding BK 3,7 ammo.
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 05, 2007, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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...it's coming home - it's coming home...
Luchterlog-Warplanes also have an overview of the different rounds used for the BK 3,7:
My wacky translation of the text beneath the image (on the Luchterlog-page):
Overview of the 3,7cm BK ammunition.
No new ammunuiton had to be developed for the Stuka-Kanonen.
The Luftwaffe could rely on ammunition used by the Flak 3,7cm 18/38/37 and Pak 3,7cm 36/L45. These were:
1. Minengranatpatrone 18, Leuchtspur mit Zerleger for Luft-Boden attacks. (both upper sketches).
2. Brandsprenggranatpatrone, Leuchtspur mit Zerleger for Luft-Boden attacks.
3. Sprenggranatpatrone 18, Leuchtspur mit Zerleger for Luft-Boden attacks.
4. Springgranate 18 (blind) without Leuchtspur and Zerleger for weapon-testing.
5. Sprenggranatpatrone 18 (blind) Leuchtspur without Zerleger for exercises.
6. Granatapatrone 18 for weapon adjustment.
7. Exerzierpatrone 18 for the drill.
The Minengranatpatrone were mainly used against air aims.
+ the "M" and "L" types mentioned in my previous post...
Cheers, Hetzer.
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...it's coming home - it's coming home...
Luchterlog-Warplanes also have an overview of the different rounds used for the BK 3,7:
My wacky translation of the text beneath the image (on the Luchterlog-page):
Overview of the 3,7cm BK ammunition.
No new ammunuiton had to be developed for the Stuka-Kanonen.
The Luftwaffe could rely on ammunition used by the Flak 3,7cm 18/38/37 and Pak 3,7cm 36/L45. These were:
1. Minengranatpatrone 18, Leuchtspur mit Zerleger for Luft-Boden attacks. (both upper sketches).
2. Brandsprenggranatpatrone, Leuchtspur mit Zerleger for Luft-Boden attacks.
3. Sprenggranatpatrone 18, Leuchtspur mit Zerleger for Luft-Boden attacks.
4. Springgranate 18 (blind) without Leuchtspur and Zerleger for weapon-testing.
5. Sprenggranatpatrone 18 (blind) Leuchtspur without Zerleger for exercises.
6. Granatapatrone 18 for weapon adjustment.
7. Exerzierpatrone 18 for the drill.
The Minengranatpatrone were mainly used against air aims.
+ the "M" and "L" types mentioned in my previous post...
Cheers, Hetzer.
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already posted on CMAK-forum, but!
(...for fear of being drowned by IL-2 related posts...;--)
...it's coming home - it's coming home!
Stuka's coming home...Sorry for posting completly out of context, but!
There were several remarks about the Ju 87G-1 / G-2 having a maximum ammo-load of 12 rounds (6 per clip per gun)...
...gentlemen, this is incorrect. :cool:
...Ju87G-1 full-size-box-magazine...During one of the staff meetings on November 3, 1942 Generalfeldmarschall Erhard Milch inquired into the possibility of either replacing the Ju87 with another type, or upgrading it's defensive armament. All present at the meeting agreed that an option of arming the Stuka with MK 108 30mm cannons should be looked into.The decision was reversed in favor of a BK 3,7 37mm cannon, when its test program had been completed. In December 1942 a Ju87D-1 (WNr. 2552) was equipped with a pair of BK 3,7 cannons mounted on the underwing stations. Each cannon with its Lafette 36 mount and a full supply of ammunition aded 400 kg of weight, which reduced the aircraft's maximum speed to 270 km/h and greatly limited its maneuverability. The aircraft first flew at Rechlin on January 31, 1943 piloted by a Knight's Cross recipient Hptm. Hans-Karl Stepp. Stepp later continued flight testing of the machine at Bryansk proving range. The trials showed that a serious limitation of the modified machine was a modest ammunition of supply for the BK 3,7 cannons, which was only six round per gun. That was quickly fixed by joining two six-round magazines together, although the flight crews were still not impressed with that solution.
Ju87G-1 was a Ju87D-3 airframe without divebreaks or wing-mounted MG 17 7.92mm machine guns.
A number of Ju87G-1s which were built in February 1943 wound up on the Eastern front with an experimental tank-busting unit - Versuchsverband für Panzerbekämpfung, which was also known as Kommando Weiss after it's CO's last name. The unit suffered its first combat loss on March 18, 1943 when WNr. 1097 (DJ+FT) was destroyed.
When Ju87D-5 aircraft entered service, a decision was made to proceed with the development of Ju87G-2 model based on the D-5 airframe. That model featured longer wing span and larger wing area, which gave the G-2 slightly better handling characteristics compared to the G-1 version. The G-2 aircraft did not have dive brakes or wing-mounted 20mm cannons.
Both tank killing variants featured a twin MG 81Z 7.92mm machine manned by the radio operator and two Bordkanone BK 3,7 37mm cannons on the wing stations. The cannons were mounted in streamlined pods which hpoused the firing chamber, recoil damper, electro-pneumatic charging mechanism and an electrically powered trigger assembly. The ammunition was fed from two box magazines holding two frames of six rounds each. The magazine was placed on the the right hand side of the cannon. Spent shells were ejected through an opening on the opposite side of the weapon. After the last round had been fired, the lock would remain in the open position, which in turn triggered illumination of a cockpit annunciator on an SZKK 2 (Schußzahl-Kontrolltaste 2) ammunition counter.
The most commonly used ammunition was armor-piercing (Panzergranate) type. Each cartridge weighed 1,460g including a 623g bullet. New M and L types of armour-piercing ammunition were introduced in 1944. The L type bullet was 124.5mm long and featured a tungsten core which gave it a capability to penetrate a 120mm armor plate, provided it was not angled at less than 60 degrees.
...In total, 20 Ju87G-1s and 210 Ju87G-2s were manufactured.
from: Kagero Monograph 25 - Junkers Ju 87 vol. I - by Marek J. Murawski
(photo from: Kagero Monograph 25)
...half loaded right wingpod box-magazine:
(photo from: Luchtoorlog-Warplanes)
...compare the size of the six-round clip with the (overall) size of the box magazine...
(photo from: Luchterlog-Warplanes)
from: Luftarchiv.Eine weitere Ausführung G, die zur Bekämpfung von Panzern von oben vorgesehen war, erhielt unter den Tragflächen außerhalb der Fahrwerke zwei Kanonen BK 37 mit allerdings nur je 12 Schuss 37 mm Panzergranaten.
from: Sturmvogel.A pair of underwing Flak 18 37mm flak guns were mounted with 12 rounds per gun, the normal wing armament generally being deleted to save weight....makes for a whooping total of 24 rounds per "Kanonenvogel" - sortie. :cool:
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 08, 2007, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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already posted on CMAK-forum, but!
(...for fear of being drowned by IL-2 related posts...;--)
...it's coming home - it's coming home!
Stuka's coming home...Sorry for posting completly out of context, but!
There were several remarks about the Ju 87G-1 / G-2 having a maximum ammo-load of 12 rounds (6 per clip per gun)...
...gentlemen, this is incorrect. :cool:
...Ju87G-1 full-size-box-magazine...During one of the staff meetings on November 3, 1942 Generalfeldmarschall Erhard Milch inquired into the possibility of either replacing the Ju87 with another type, or upgrading it's defensive armament. All present at the meeting agreed that an option of arming the Stuka with MK 108 30mm cannons should be looked into.The decision was reversed in favor of a BK 3,7 37mm cannon, when its test program had been completed. In December 1942 a Ju87D-1 (WNr. 2552) was equipped with a pair of BK 3,7 cannons mounted on the underwing stations. Each cannon with its Lafette 36 mount and a full supply of ammunition aded 400 kg of weight, which reduced the aircraft's maximum speed to 270 km/h and greatly limited its maneuverability. The aircraft first flew at Rechlin on January 31, 1943 piloted by a Knight's Cross recipient Hptm. Hans-Karl Stepp. Stepp later continued flight testing of the machine at Bryansk proving range. The trials showed that a serious limitation of the modified machine was a modest ammunition of supply for the BK 3,7 cannons, which was only six round per gun. That was quickly fixed by joining two six-round magazines together, although the flight crews were still not impressed with that solution.
Ju87G-1 was a Ju87D-3 airframe without divebreaks or wing-mounted MG 17 7.92mm machine guns.
A number of Ju87G-1s which were built in February 1943 wound up on the Eastern front with an experimental tank-busting unit - Versuchsverband für Panzerbekämpfung, which was also known as Kommando Weiss after it's CO's last name. The unit suffered its first combat loss on March 18, 1943 when WNr. 1097 (DJ+FT) was destroyed.
When Ju87D-5 aircraft entered service, a decision was made to proceed with the development of Ju87G-2 model based on the D-5 airframe. That model featured longer wing span and larger wing area, which gave the G-2 slightly better handling characteristics compared to the G-1 version. The G-2 aircraft did not have dive brakes or wing-mounted 20mm cannons.
Both tank killing variants featured a twin MG 81Z 7.92mm machine manned by the radio operator and two Bordkanone BK 3,7 37mm cannons on the wing stations. The cannons were mounted in streamlined pods which hpoused the firing chamber, recoil damper, electro-pneumatic charging mechanism and an electrically powered trigger assembly. The ammunition was fed from two box magazines holding two frames of six rounds each. The magazine was placed on the the right hand side of the cannon. Spent shells were ejected through an opening on the opposite side of the weapon. After the last round had been fired, the lock would remain in the open position, which in turn triggered illumination of a cockpit annunciator on an SZKK 2 (Schußzahl-Kontrolltaste 2) ammunition counter.
The most commonly used ammunition was armor-piercing (Panzergranate) type. Each cartridge weighed 1,460g including a 623g bullet. New M and L types of armour-piercing ammunition were introduced in 1944. The L type bullet was 124.5mm long and featured a tungsten core which gave it a capability to penetrate a 120mm armor plate, provided it was not angled at less than 60 degrees.
...In total, 20 Ju87G-1s and 210 Ju87G-2s were manufactured.
from: Kagero Monograph 25 - Junkers Ju 87 vol. I - by Marek J. Murawski
(photo from: Kagero Monograph 25)
...half loaded right wingpod box-magazine:
(photo from: Luchtoorlog-Warplanes)
...compare the size of the six-round clip with the (overall) size of the box magazine...
(photo from: Luchterlog-Warplanes)
from: Luftarchiv.Eine weitere Ausführung G, die zur Bekämpfung von Panzern von oben vorgesehen war, erhielt unter den Tragflächen außerhalb der Fahrwerke zwei Kanonen BK 37 mit allerdings nur je 12 Schuss 37 mm Panzergranaten.
from: Sturmvogel.A pair of underwing Flak 18 37mm flak guns were mounted with 12 rounds per gun, the normal wing armament generally being deleted to save weight....makes for a whooping total of 24 rounds per "Kanonenvogel" - sortie. :cool:
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 08, 2007, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Luchterlog-Warplanes also have an overview of the different rounds used for the BK 3,7:
My wacky translation of the text beneath the image (on the Luchterlog-page):
Overview of the 3,7cm BK ammunition.
No new ammunuiton had to be developed for the Stuka-Kanonen.
The Luftwaffe could rely on ammunition used by the Flak 3,7cm 18/38/37 and Pak 3,7cm 36/L45. These were:
1. Minengranatpatrone 18, Leuchtspur mit Zerleger for Luft-Boden attacks. (both upper sketches).
2. Brandsprenggranatpatrone, Leuchtspur mit Zerleger for Luft-Boden attacks.
3. Sprenggranatpatrone 18, Leuchtspur mit Zerleger for Luft-Boden attacks.
4. Springgranate 18 (blind) without Leuchtspur and Zerleger for weapon-testing.
5. Sprenggranatpatrone 18 (blind) Leuchtspur without Zerleger for exercises.
6. Granatapatrone 18 for weapon adjustment.
7. Exerzierpatrone 18 for the drill.
The Minengranatpatrone were mainly used against air aims.
+ the "M" and "L" types mentioned in my previous post...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 04, 2007, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
-
Sorry for posting completly out of context, but!
There were several remarks about the Ju 87G-1 / G-2 having a maximum ammo-load of 12 rounds (6 per clip per gun)...
...gentlemen, this is incorrect. :cool:
...Ju87G-1 full-size-box-magazine...During one of the staff meetings on November 3, 1942 Generalfeldmarschall Erhard Milch inquired into the possibility of either replacing the Ju87 with another type, or upgrading it's defensive armament. All present at the meeting agreed that an option of arming the Stuka with MK 108 30mm cannons should be looked into.The decision was reversed in favor of a BK 3,7 37mm cannon, when its test program had been completed. In December 1942 a Ju87D-1 (WNr. 2552) was equipped with a pair of BK 3,7 cannons mounted on the underwing stations. Each cannon with its Lafette 36 mount and a full supply of ammunition aded 400 kg of weight, which reduced the aircraft's maximum speed to 270 km/h and greatly limited its maneuverability. The aircraft first flew at Rechlin on January 31, 1943 piloted by a Knight's Cross recipient Hptm. Hans-Karl Stepp. Stepp later continued flight testing of the machine at Bryansk proving range. The trials showed that a serious limitation of the modified machine was a modest ammunition of supply for the BK 3,7 cannons, which was only six round per gun. That was quickly fixed by joining two six-round magazines together, although the flight crews were still not impressed with that solution.
Ju87G-1 was a Ju87D-3 airframe without divebreaks or wing-mounted MG 17 7.92mm machine guns.
A number of Ju87G-1s which were built in February 1943 wound up on the Eastern front with an experimental tank-busting unit - Versuchsverband für Panzerbekämpfung, which was also known as Kommando Weiss after it's CO's last name. The unit suffered its first combat loss on March 18, 1943 when WNr. 1097 (DJ+FT) was destroyed.
When Ju87D-5 aircraft entered service, a decision was made to proceed with the development of Ju87G-2 model based on the D-5 airframe. That model featured longer wing span and larger wing area, which gave the G-2 slightly better handling characteristics compared to the G-1 version. The G-2 aircraft did not have dive brakes or wing-mounted 20mm cannons.
Both tank killing variants featured a twin MG 81Z 7.92mm machine manned by the radio operator and two Bordkanone BK 3,7 37mm cannons on the wing stations. The cannons were mounted in streamlined pods which hpoused the firing chamber, recoil damper, electro-pneumatic charging mechanism and an electrically powered trigger assembly. The ammunition was fed from two box magazines holding two frames of six rounds each. The magazine was placed on the the right hand side of the cannon. Spent shells were ejected through an opening on the opposite side of the weapon. After the last round had been fired, the lock would remain in the open position, which in turn triggered illumination of a cockpit annunciator on an SZKK 2 (Schußzahl-Kontrolltaste 2) ammunition counter.
The most commonly used ammunition was armor-piercing (Panzergranate) type. Each cartridge weighed 1,460g including a 623g bullet. New M and L types of armour-piercing ammunition were introduced in 1944. The L type bullet was 124.5mm long and featured a tungsten core which gave it a capability to penetrate a 120mm armor plate, provided it was not angled at less than 60 degrees.
...In total, 20 Ju87G-1s and 210 Ju87G-2s were manufactured.
from: Kagero Monograph 25 - Junkers Ju 87 vol. I - by Marek J. Murawski
(photo from: Kagero Monograph 25)
...half loaded right wingpod box-magazine:
(photo from: Luchtoorlog-Warplanes)
...compare the size of the six-round clip with the (overall) size of the box magazine...
(photo from: Luchterlog-Warplanes)
from: Luftarchiv.Eine weitere Ausführung G, die zur Bekämpfung von Panzern von oben vorgesehen war, erhielt unter den Tragflächen außerhalb der Fahrwerke zwei Kanonen BK 37 mit allerdings nur je 12 Schuss 37 mm Panzergranaten.
from: Sturmvogel.A pair of underwing Flak 18 37mm flak guns were mounted with 12 rounds per gun, the normal wing armament generally being deleted to save weight....makes for a whooping total of 24 rounds per "Kanonenvogel" - sortie. :cool:
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 08, 2007, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
Ju-87/G Stuka tankbuster info (cross post fm CMAK)
in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Posted
The "Stettin-March-1945" scene (films 1 + 2) shows a Ju87G filmed from the ground, and the "Rudel vs tanks" scene (films 3 + 4) shows a Ju87G filmed from another aircraft, and there's (very) little doubt what kind of aircraft was filmed.
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 08, 2007, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]