Hetzer38
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Posts posted by Hetzer38
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Sorry for such a late response, but my PC was nuked by a Troyan worm (or whatever..), I desperately tried to repair the damage (for hours!) but it was fruitless...
At least I have saved my most precious files before formating + reinstalling my system!
(family photos, WK II potos/films, CM Mods...)
Anyway, ...
What's his source for that?Originally posted by Andreas:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hetzer38:
And for what it's worth, here's the the point of view of "Das Reich" on the discussion.
All the best
Andreas </font>
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Sorry for such a late response, but my PC was nuked by a Troyan worm (or whatever..), I desperately tried to repair the damage (for hours!) but it was fruitless...
At least I have saved my most precious files before formating + reinstalling my system!
(family photos, WK II potos/films, CM Mods...)
Anyway, ...
What's his source for that?Originally posted by Andreas:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hetzer38:
And for what it's worth, here's the the point of view of "Das Reich" on the discussion.
All the best
Andreas </font>
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Holy ****!
Damn, these look superb - I love that dirty-winter look!
Good luck finishing these beauties soon!
(...can't be long by the look of it...
Cheers, Hetzer.
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And for what it's worth, here's the the point of view of "Das Reich" on the discussion.
</font></font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Regained MomentumWhen the rest of the regiment joined the fight, the attack gained more momentum and the Germans managed to open a substantial gap in the enemy lines. On 8 July, the Red Army threw more armoured units at the advancing SS divisions.
By this time, the focus of the battle fo Kursk had clearly shifted to the southern sector.
When it seemed as if the SS troops and the Kempf group were going to surround the Soviet garrison at Prokhorovka, the Red Army responded with a savage counter-attack.
At Teterevino, 3rd Battalion, Der Führer Regiment held its ground against an armoured assault until every unit in the Das Reich division reached the area to participate in the fight for this and other villages and the ridges upon which they sat.
With the help of Stukas fitted with anti-tank cannons, attacks upon the SS divisions were kept off for a brief period.
But before Hausser's troops could resume offensive actions, the Red Army hurled more infantry and armoured units at them. Most notably, a formation of 60 Russian battle tanks threatened SS supply lines by trying to block the main road running from Belgorod to Oboyan. However, this threat soon abated when Luftwaffe warplanes arrived, knocked out about 50 tanks, and killed several foot soldiers.
At the same time, Das Reich and other SS divisions repelled a series of armoured assaults at Teterevino, destroying almost 300 enemy armoured vehicles during the course of the day.
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And for what it's worth, here's the the point of view of "Das Reich" on the discussion.
</font></font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Regained MomentumWhen the rest of the regiment joined the fight, the attack gained more momentum and the Germans managed to open a substantial gap in the enemy lines. On 8 July, the Red Army threw more armoured units at the advancing SS divisions.
By this time, the focus of the battle fo Kursk had clearly shifted to the southern sector.
When it seemed as if the SS troops and the Kempf group were going to surround the Soviet garrison at Prokhorovka, the Red Army responded with a savage counter-attack.
At Teterevino, 3rd Battalion, Der Führer Regiment held its ground against an armoured assault until every unit in the Das Reich division reached the area to participate in the fight for this and other villages and the ridges upon which they sat.
With the help of Stukas fitted with anti-tank cannons, attacks upon the SS divisions were kept off for a brief period.
But before Hausser's troops could resume offensive actions, the Red Army hurled more infantry and armoured units at them. Most notably, a formation of 60 Russian battle tanks threatened SS supply lines by trying to block the main road running from Belgorod to Oboyan. However, this threat soon abated when Luftwaffe warplanes arrived, knocked out about 50 tanks, and killed several foot soldiers.
At the same time, Das Reich and other SS divisions repelled a series of armoured assaults at Teterevino, destroying almost 300 enemy armoured vehicles during the course of the day.
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I posted Hptm Bruno Meyer's story about the action discussed by the gentlemen at the Dupuy-forum on page 5 in the CMAK-cross-post, it ends with:Originally posted by Andreas:I suggest reading this:
http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000016.html
This should make some sobering reading for anyone who actually believes German air/ground kill claims. Good effort by Chris to start the discussion.
All the best
Andreas
(Hs-129 Panzerjäger! - Martin Pegg, p 150)Just how successful the Henschel Staffeln had been on 8 July is confirmed by Luftflotte 4's war diary which states that on that day:"The Panzerjäger were especially successful. Eighty tanks were completely destroyed and a further number damaged."
However, this translation of Luftflotte 4's 'war diary' is crap.
Daily combat reports of VIII. Fl. Korps (Luftflotte 4):
84 tanks destroyed (11 of them burning), 5 guns, 2 "Stalinorgeln", 2 AA-guns and about 40 motorized vehicles destroyed, 21 tanks and two "Stalinorgeln" damaged...these are not credited to the Panzerjägerstaffeln alone but to all of Luftflotte 4's / VIII Fl.Korps - groundattack-aircraft that participated on this day of combat! So, I guess the 701 Stukas + 133 remaining Schlachtflugzeuge that flew combat missions that day accounted for a good part of the knocked-out total of 84.Tageseinsatz 8.7.1943
eingesetzt: 1686 Flugzeuge
davon:
77 Aufklärer
493 Kampfflugzeuge
701 Sturzkampfflugzeuge
186 Schlachtflugzeuge (davon 53 Pz.Jäger Hs 129 mit 3 cm-Kanone)
229 Jagdflugzeuge
Schwerpunkt vor Pz.AOK 4. Erstmalig erfolgreicher Einsatz der Panzerjägerstaffeln.
(First successfull operation of the Panzerjägerstaffeln.)
Erfolge: 84 Panzer (davon 11 brennend) vernichtet, 5
Geschütze, 2 Salvengeschütze, 2 Flakgeschütze und etwa 40 mot. Fahrzeuge
zerstört, 21 Panzer und 2 Salvengeschütze beschädigt.
Abschüße: 43 Feindflugzeuge im Luftkampf
Verluste: 1 Fw 190, 2 Hs 129, 1 Ju 87 durch Flak (RK-Träger Hptm. Wutka), 1 Ju
87 durch Jäger (RK-Träger Oblt. Fitzner)
Bemerkungen:
Der erste Einsatz der Panzerjägerstaffeln erwies sich als wirksam.
(The first operation of the Panzerjägerstaffeln proved to be effective.)
Wenn auch brennende Panzer nicht gemeldet wurden, so muß damit gerechnet werden, daß eine größere Anzahl wirksam beschossen wurde (mehr als 6 Treffer).
(Even though burning tanks were not reported, it must be estimated that that a larger number was effectively shot at [more than 6 hits].)
Besonders in der Abwehr des in späten Nachmittagstunden von Nordosten gegen SS-Das Reich anlaufenden Panzerangriffs konnte nach Einsatz der Panzerjäger festgestellt werden, daß die Russen abdrehten und sich zurückzogen.
(Especially in the late hours of the afternoon, defending SS 'Das Reich' against a rolling tank attack from North-East, it was observed that the russians sheered off and fell back after the Panzerjägers' attack.)
Nachteinsatz 8./9.7.1943 (28 Flugzeuge)
6 Kampfflugzeuge Bahnjagd Kursk - Kastornoje. Gute Trefferlage in Zwischenbahnhöfen
20 Störkampfflugzeuge Einsatz ostw. Belgorod im Koren-Abschnitt.
(O.K., and let's give those 493 bombers one or two of those tanks too...;-)
So the fifty-three Hs 129B-2s of the Panzerjägerstaffeln were credited with much less kills than "believed".
And even if Hptm Bruno Meyer's story is just that - a story - (of which I'm not totally convinced right now, ~20-30 tank kills for ~50 Hs 129B flying 'rolling' attacks doesn't sound that unimaginable to me, and I'm not utterly convinced that Bruno Meyer's "story" can only be referring to the 26th Tank Brigade of the II Guards Tank Corps, which lost ~10 tanks that day...); that doesn't prove that Luftwaffe-kill-credits (for example for Stuka or "Tankbuster" 'aces') were seriously flawed as a general rule.
Have a look at Sommerschlacht, for:
Air Operations during Battle of Kursk July-August 1943
German links:
* Order of battle of Lfl. 4
* Order of battle of Lfl. 6
* Daily combat reports of Lfl. 6 and VIII. Fl.Korps (compilation)
* Excerpts from Kriegstagebuch Armee-Abteilung Kempf (VIII. Fl.Korps operations)
* Some OKW statistics (T77R785-5513559ff)
Russian links:
* Order of battle of 1. wa (Western Front)
* Order of battle of 15. wa (Brjansk Front)
* Order of battle of 16. wa (Central Front)
* Order of battle of 2. wa (Voronesh Front)
* Order of battle of 5. wa (Steppes Front)
* Order of battle of 17. wa (Southwest Front)
* Order of battle of ADD units
* Order of battle of PWO units
Cheers, Hetzer.
Edit:
Just stumbled over a translation error by Chris Lawrence:
Wrong. Fifty-three Hs 129 aircraft (Flugzeuge) are listed in the report of VIII Fliegerkorps for 8 July, not sorties (Einsätze).The VIII Air Corps does record this day 53 sorties of Hs-129s with 30mm cannons.
(...more like ~200 sorties flown by Hs 129B-2s that day IMO...Hmm, does anyone have the war diaries of * Pz.Jagd-Kdo./Sch.G. 1 * 4.(Pz.)/Sch.G. 1 * 8.(Pz.)/Sch.G. 1 * 4.(Pz.)/Sch.G. 2 * 8.(Pz.)/Sch.G. 2 * or Pz.Jagd-Staffel/J.G. 51 at hand ?...
[ March 19, 2007, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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I posted Hptm Bruno Meyer's story about the action discussed by the gentlemen at the Dupuy-forum on page 5 in the CMAK-cross-post, it ends with:Originally posted by Andreas:I suggest reading this:
http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000016.html
This should make some sobering reading for anyone who actually believes German air/ground kill claims. Good effort by Chris to start the discussion.
All the best
Andreas
(Hs-129 Panzerjäger! - Martin Pegg, p 150)Just how successful the Henschel Staffeln had been on 8 July is confirmed by Luftflotte 4's war diary which states that on that day:"The Panzerjäger were especially successful. Eighty tanks were completely destroyed and a further number damaged."
However, this translation of Luftflotte 4's 'war diary' is crap.
Daily combat reports of VIII. Fl. Korps (Luftflotte 4):
84 tanks destroyed (11 of them burning), 5 guns, 2 "Stalinorgeln", 2 AA-guns and about 40 motorized vehicles destroyed, 21 tanks and two "Stalinorgeln" damaged...these are not credited to the Panzerjägerstaffeln alone but to all of Luftflotte 4's / VIII Fl.Korps - groundattack-aircraft that participated on this day of combat! So, I guess the 701 Stukas + 133 remaining Schlachtflugzeuge that flew combat missions that day accounted for a good part of the knocked-out total of 84.Tageseinsatz 8.7.1943
eingesetzt: 1686 Flugzeuge
davon:
77 Aufklärer
493 Kampfflugzeuge
701 Sturzkampfflugzeuge
186 Schlachtflugzeuge (davon 53 Pz.Jäger Hs 129 mit 3 cm-Kanone)
229 Jagdflugzeuge
Schwerpunkt vor Pz.AOK 4. Erstmalig erfolgreicher Einsatz der Panzerjägerstaffeln.
(First successfull operation of the Panzerjägerstaffeln.)
Erfolge: 84 Panzer (davon 11 brennend) vernichtet, 5
Geschütze, 2 Salvengeschütze, 2 Flakgeschütze und etwa 40 mot. Fahrzeuge
zerstört, 21 Panzer und 2 Salvengeschütze beschädigt.
Abschüße: 43 Feindflugzeuge im Luftkampf
Verluste: 1 Fw 190, 2 Hs 129, 1 Ju 87 durch Flak (RK-Träger Hptm. Wutka), 1 Ju
87 durch Jäger (RK-Träger Oblt. Fitzner)
Bemerkungen:
Der erste Einsatz der Panzerjägerstaffeln erwies sich als wirksam.
(The first operation of the Panzerjägerstaffeln proved to be effective.)
Wenn auch brennende Panzer nicht gemeldet wurden, so muß damit gerechnet werden, daß eine größere Anzahl wirksam beschossen wurde (mehr als 6 Treffer).
(Even though burning tanks were not reported, it must be estimated that that a larger number was effectively shot at [more than 6 hits].)
Besonders in der Abwehr des in späten Nachmittagstunden von Nordosten gegen SS-Das Reich anlaufenden Panzerangriffs konnte nach Einsatz der Panzerjäger festgestellt werden, daß die Russen abdrehten und sich zurückzogen.
(Especially in the late hours of the afternoon, defending SS 'Das Reich' against a rolling tank attack from North-East, it was observed that the russians sheered off and fell back after the Panzerjägers' attack.)
Nachteinsatz 8./9.7.1943 (28 Flugzeuge)
6 Kampfflugzeuge Bahnjagd Kursk - Kastornoje. Gute Trefferlage in Zwischenbahnhöfen
20 Störkampfflugzeuge Einsatz ostw. Belgorod im Koren-Abschnitt.
(O.K., and let's give those 493 bombers one or two of those tanks too...;-)
So the fifty-three Hs 129B-2s of the Panzerjägerstaffeln were credited with much less kills than "believed".
And even if Hptm Bruno Meyer's story is just that - a story - (of which I'm not totally convinced right now, ~20-30 tank kills for ~50 Hs 129B flying 'rolling' attacks doesn't sound that unimaginable to me, and I'm not utterly convinced that Bruno Meyer's "story" can only be referring to the 26th Tank Brigade of the II Guards Tank Corps, which lost ~10 tanks that day...); that doesn't prove that Luftwaffe-kill-credits (for example for Stuka or "Tankbuster" 'aces') were seriously flawed as a general rule.
Have a look at Sommerschlacht, for:
Air Operations during Battle of Kursk July-August 1943
German links:
* Order of battle of Lfl. 4
* Order of battle of Lfl. 6
* Daily combat reports of Lfl. 6 and VIII. Fl.Korps (compilation)
* Excerpts from Kriegstagebuch Armee-Abteilung Kempf (VIII. Fl.Korps operations)
* Some OKW statistics (T77R785-5513559ff)
Russian links:
* Order of battle of 1. wa (Western Front)
* Order of battle of 15. wa (Brjansk Front)
* Order of battle of 16. wa (Central Front)
* Order of battle of 2. wa (Voronesh Front)
* Order of battle of 5. wa (Steppes Front)
* Order of battle of 17. wa (Southwest Front)
* Order of battle of ADD units
* Order of battle of PWO units
Cheers, Hetzer.
Edit:
Just stumbled over a translation error by Chris Lawrence:
Wrong. Fifty-three Hs 129 aircraft (Flugzeuge) are listed in the report of VIII Fliegerkorps for 8 July, not sorties (Einsätze).The VIII Air Corps does record this day 53 sorties of Hs-129s with 30mm cannons.(...more like ~200 sorties flown by Hs 129B-2s that day IMO...Hmm, does anyone have the war diaries of * Pz.Jagd-Kdo./Sch.G. 1 * 4.(Pz.)/Sch.G. 1 * 8.(Pz.)/Sch.G. 1 * 4.(Pz.)/Sch.G. 2 * 8.(Pz.)/Sch.G. 2 * or Pz.Jagd-Staffel/J.G. 51 at hand ?...
[ March 19, 2007, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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This image from AllAces.ru gives a good overview of the amount of damage on the Marat, and which parts were under water...
...if I understand the author of the accompanying text correctly (via Babelfish-translation), he credits Lt Ernst-Siegfried Steen, Rudel's squadron leader at that time, with the critical hit.
...'Steen' died in the attack on the "Kirov" later that day...which automatically leads to conspiracy theory A:
"Hmm...'Steen' is dead, his wingman alive - let's credit 'Rudel' with the kill."
...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 14, 2007, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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This image from AllAces.ru gives a good overview of the amount of damage on the Marat, and which parts were under water...
...if I understand the author of the accompanying text correctly (via Babelfish-translation), he credits Lt Ernst-Siegfried Steen, Rudel's squadron leader at that time, with the critical hit.
...'Steen' died in the attack on the "Kirov" later that day...which automatically leads to conspiracy theory A:
"Hmm...'Steen' is dead, his wingman alive - let's credit 'Rudel' with the kill."
...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 14, 2007, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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I have a (tv) documentation (89 min, part 4 of 5), showing the exception to that rule, called "Mein Krieg - Amateurfilmer und ihre Aufnahmen aus dem Russlandfeldzug"...;Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:Cameras were banned from the front lines in all armies from what I can tell. The rules were ignored a lot,but frontline photography in private collections is of much poorer quality than official stuff - mostly due to the expense of cameras in those days, and how really cheap the affordable ones in terms of quality output.
With a 16mm-Kamera the german Panzerspähtrupp-Funkaufklärer [Panhard-Pz.Späh P 204(f)] Götz Hirt-Reger filmed the war against Russia from 1941 to 1944, mostly with Kodachrome colour-film;
Hirt-Reger (74) comments the films he made 50 years ago. Additional material comes from other german and hungarian amateur-filming soldiers.
Mostly non-frontline "shots" but good quality material anyway, a shame that Götz wasn't a Stuka-"rear-gunner"...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 13, 2007, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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I have a (tv) documentation (89 min, part 4 of 5), showing the exception to that rule, called "Mein Krieg - Amateurfilmer und ihre Aufnahmen aus dem Russlandfeldzug"...;Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:Cameras were banned from the front lines in all armies from what I can tell. The rules were ignored a lot,but frontline photography in private collections is of much poorer quality than official stuff - mostly due to the expense of cameras in those days, and how really cheap the affordable ones in terms of quality output.
With a 16mm-Kamera the german Panzerspähtrupp-Funkaufklärer [Panhard-Pz.Späh P 204(f)] Götz Hirt-Reger filmed the war against Russia from 1941 to 1944, mostly with Kodachrome colour-film;
Hirt-Reger (74) comments the films he made 50 years ago. Additional material comes from other german and hungarian amateur-filming soldiers.
Mostly non-frontline "shots" but good quality material anyway, a shame that Götz wasn't a Stuka-"rear-gunner"...
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 13, 2007, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Hmm, yum, yum!
Looking gorgeous!
Cheers, Hetzer.
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Wonderful! Made me spill half of my coffee onto myself!Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann:Perhaps the date on that combat report of the 1st of April gives it away?
Regards
Jim R.
While googling around I found some link to an expired (private) auction of a CD including the L.Dv. 4000/10 Juni 1942 Bordwaffenmunition.Originally posted by John Kettler:Hetzer38,
Where'd you find that rather obscure manual, praytell?
(L.Dv. = Luftwaffe-Dienstvorschrift = LW "duty-manual"; M.Dv =Marine-Dv; H.Dv = Heeres-Dv;...), and the Handbuch der Bordwaffenmunition Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe1942.
So I googled for those, and came up with an emule-link to the Handbuch der Bordwaffenmunition Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe1942; (257 pages)...
( 1942 was a long time ago and I don't think there's a copyright-issue with downloading that file... )
Sorry, but I am obviously confused about your system of mathematical notation as well - I hope I get it straight next time!Originally posted by John Kettler:Also, am confused by the European system of mathematical notation. While by adjusting my thinking I understand you to say that two thousand and forty-nine tank kills were claimed by thirty Panzerknacker pilots, to most Americans it reads as two decimal/point zero four nine, something altogether different. Likewise, the use of the comma in lieu of the decimal takes some real getting used to. For example, if you write 3,375 and I'm paying attention, then I know that what you've written = 3.375 in my notation system, but most Americans would read this as three thousand three hundred and seventy-five, a rather large difference!
Regards,
John Kettler
Originally posted by Andreas:...I would agree, except that he wrote this stuff after the war, when he must have known what really happened.
All the best
Andreas
Damn it, but very good point Andreas! :mad:
...Still he recieved the following awards:
Surely not for making his superiors believe that he wrecked a lot of russian equipment when in fact he diddn't ?* Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse am 10.11.1939* Eisernes Kreuz I. Klasse , Frontflugspange in Gold am 18.07.1941
* Ehrenpokal für besondere Leistungen im Luftkrieg am 20.10.1941
* Deutsches Kreuz in Gold am 08.12.1941
* Ritterkreuz am 06.01.1942 als Oberleutnant nach weit über 400 Feindflügen
* Eichenlaub (Nr.229) am 14.04.1943 als Oberleutnant nach weit über 1.000 Feindflügen
* Schwerter(Nr.42) am 25.11.1943 als Hauptmann nach über 1.600 Feindflügen
* Brillanten (Nr. 10) am 29.03.1944 als Major nach über 1.800 Feindflügen und über 200 Panzervernichtungen
* Goldenes Eichenlaub (Nr.1) am 29.12.1944 als Oberstleutnant nach über 2.400 Feindflügen und 463 Panzervernichtungen
* Goldene Tapferkeitsmedaille (höchste ungarische Tapferkeitsauszeichnung, nur siebenmal verliehen, (Rudel als einziger Ausländer) am 14.01.1945...
And after all he was credited with the "sinking" of the Marat (...and she was 'only' a crippled stationary 'shore-battery' afterwards...) celebrated by his fellow pilots and superiors, celebrated by the german folk, awarded with the Knight's cross for this "achievment"...although I admit it would have been a lot better for his credibility if he had included the info about the further 'fate' of the Marat in his book...
Best Regards, Hetzer.
[ March 13, 2007, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Wonderful! Made me spill half of my coffee onto myself!Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann:Perhaps the date on that combat report of the 1st of April gives it away?
Regards
Jim R.
While googling around I found some link to an expired (private) auction of a CD including the L.Dv. 4000/10 Juni 1942 Bordwaffenmunition.Originally posted by John Kettler:Hetzer38,
Where'd you find that rather obscure manual, praytell?
(L.Dv. = Luftwaffe-Dienstvorschrift = LW "duty-manual"; M.Dv =Marine-Dv; H.Dv = Heeres-Dv;...), and the Handbuch der Bordwaffenmunition Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe1942.
So I googled for those, and came up with an emule-link to the Handbuch der Bordwaffenmunition Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe1942; (257 pages)...
( 1942 was a long time ago and I don't think there's a copyright-issue with downloading that file... )
Sorry, but I am obviously confused about your system of mathematical notation as well - I hope I get it straight next time!Originally posted by John Kettler:Also, am confused by the European system of mathematical notation. While by adjusting my thinking I understand you to say that two thousand and forty-nine tank kills were claimed by thirty Panzerknacker pilots, to most Americans it reads as two decimal/point zero four nine, something altogether different. Likewise, the use of the comma in lieu of the decimal takes some real getting used to. For example, if you write 3,375 and I'm paying attention, then I know that what you've written = 3.375 in my notation system, but most Americans would read this as three thousand three hundred and seventy-five, a rather large difference!
Regards,
John Kettler
Originally posted by Andreas:...I would agree, except that he wrote this stuff after the war, when he must have known what really happened.
All the best
Andreas
Damn it, but very good point Andreas! :mad:
...Still he recieved the following awards:
Surely not for making his superiors believe that he wrecked a lot of russian equipment when in fact he diddn't ?* Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse am 10.11.1939* Eisernes Kreuz I. Klasse , Frontflugspange in Gold am 18.07.1941
* Ehrenpokal für besondere Leistungen im Luftkrieg am 20.10.1941
* Deutsches Kreuz in Gold am 08.12.1941
* Ritterkreuz am 06.01.1942 als Oberleutnant nach weit über 400 Feindflügen
* Eichenlaub (Nr.229) am 14.04.1943 als Oberleutnant nach weit über 1.000 Feindflügen
* Schwerter(Nr.42) am 25.11.1943 als Hauptmann nach über 1.600 Feindflügen
* Brillanten (Nr. 10) am 29.03.1944 als Major nach über 1.800 Feindflügen und über 200 Panzervernichtungen
* Goldenes Eichenlaub (Nr.1) am 29.12.1944 als Oberstleutnant nach über 2.400 Feindflügen und 463 Panzervernichtungen
* Goldene Tapferkeitsmedaille (höchste ungarische Tapferkeitsauszeichnung, nur siebenmal verliehen, (Rudel als einziger Ausländer) am 14.01.1945...
And after all he was credited with the "sinking" of the Marat (...and she was 'only' a crippled stationary 'shore-battery' afterwards...) celebrated by his fellow pilots and superiors, celebrated by the german folk, awarded with the Knight's cross for this "achievment"...although I admit it would have been a lot better for his credibility if he had included the info about the further 'fate' of the Marat in his book...
Best Regards, Hetzer.
[ March 13, 2007, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Right.
And still there is no definite proof that everything he claimed (...damn that we have no "verification data" of his claims, like 01/04/44 -> 4 tanks destroyed at Kuhkafka, confirmed by squadron members LT Bohlen and OG Anders / Major Neese of I.R. 0815 on the ground...) is complete rubbish based on the fact that he was such a fanatic Nazi.
Cheers, Hetzer.
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Right.
And still there is no definite proof that everything he claimed (...damn that we have no "verification data" of his claims, like 01/04/44 -> 4 tanks destroyed at Kuhkafka, confirmed by squadron members LT Bohlen and OG Anders / Major Neese of I.R. 0815 on the ground...) is complete rubbish based on the fact that he was such a fanatic Nazi.
Cheers, Hetzer.
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...and, from the
"Handbuch der Bordwaffenmunition Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe 1942"...
vorläufige Schusstafel for 3,7cm M-Granatpatrone 18 L'Spur
Schusstafel for 3,7cm H-Pzgr.Patr. L'Spur o.Zerl.
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 12, 2007, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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...and, from the
"Handbuch der Bordwaffenmunition Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe 1942"...
vorläufige Schusstafel for 3,7cm M-Granatpatrone 18 L'Spur
Schusstafel for 3,7cm H-Pzgr.Patr. L'Spur o.Zerl.
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 12, 2007, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
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Yesterday, I have updated the "list" by including the numbers of Feind-Flüge (FF=combat missions) given in Dive Bomber and Ground-Attack Aces.
(...And for discussing some additional mumbers...)
These thirty Stuka pilots (...well, some didn't fly the Ju87 exclusivly...) claim to have knocked-out 2049 tanks in 26656 FF...
Anton Hübsch - RK 08/08/44 - Oberfeldwebel-2./SG 2 - 1060FF - +120 tanks...
Gerhard Stüdemann - EL 28/03/45 - Hauptmann-9./St.G 77 -996FF - 117 tanks
Alois Wosnitza - RK 26/02/44 -- Oberfeldwebel-SG 77 - 1217FF - 104 tanks
Hendrik Stahl - EL 24/05/44 -- Hauptmann-8./ SG 2 - +1000FF - +100 tanks
Jakob Jenster - RK 29/02/44 -- Leutnant-t.G1,St.G2 - 960FF - 100 tanks
Wilhelm Joswig - RK 29/02/44 - Oberleutnant-9./St.G2 - 820FF - 88 tanks
Wilhelm Noller - RK 06/04(44 - Leutnant-2./ SG 2 - 1058FF - 86 tanks
Hans Ludwig - RK 08/08/44 -- Feldwebel-10. (Pz) / SG 2 -- + 19.01.1945 - 750FF - 85 tanks
Heinz Edhofer - RK 30/11/44 - Oberfeldwebel-St.G2,SG2 - 600FF - KIA 01.04.1945 - 84 tanks
Siegfried Fischer - RK 28/02/45 15 - Oberfeldwebel-StG1,SG1 - 713FF - POW - 80 tanks
Theodor Nordmann - EL 16/03/43 - Major-II./SG1 - +1111FF - 80 tanks
Kurt Plenzat - EL 24/01/45 - Leutnant-2./SG2 - 1.234FF - ~80 tanks
Hans-Joachim Jäschke - RK26/03/44 - Oberleutnant-4./SG1 - +553FF - 78 tanks
Wilhelm Bromen - RK 16/04/43 - Oberleutnant-7 4/StG 2, SG 151, I(Pz)/SG 9 - 965FF - 76 tanks
Kurt Lau - RK 06/04/44 - Hauptmann-1./St.G 2 - POW - 897FF - ~75 tanks
Rainer Nossek - RK 29/10/44 - Oberleutnant-StG 2, SG 2, SG 3, SG 9 - ~800FF - +73 tanks
Gustav Schubert - EL 24/10/44 - Oberleutnant-I/StG 1, III/StG 1, 9/SG - 1.089FF +70 tanks
Johann Klaus - RK 26/03/44 - Oberleutnant-StG 1, SG 1 - 812FF +65 tanks
Erwin-Peter Diekwisch - RK 15/10/42 - Hauptmann-9/StG 1, III/StG 1, I/SG 5, III/KG 200 - 934FF - 64 tanks
Andreas Kuffner - EL 20/12/44 - Hauptmann-10.(Pz.)/SG 3 - +900FF - 60 tanks
Martin Möbus - EL 27/04/44 - Major-I/StG1, III/StG 1, I./StG 5 - +800FF - 60 tanks
Herbert Bauer - EL 30/09/44 - Hauptmann-I./SG2 - 1071FF - 51 tanks
Egon Stoll-Berberich - RK 29/02/44 - Hauptmann-St.G. 2, JG 51, St.G. 1, SG 151 -734FF - +50 tanks
Josef Huber - RK 20/07/44 -- Oberfeldwebel-SG6 - 721FF - 46 tanks
Hans Luhr - RK 29/02/44 - Oberfeldwebel-St.G77,St.G102 - ~850FF - + 20.09.1944 - 33 tanks
Adolf Weiß - RK 29/02/44 - Oberfeldwebel-St.G. 77, SG 151 - 869FF -+32 tanks
Ernst Orzegowski - RK 14/01/45 - Feldwebel-SG77,SG10 - 682FF - 31 tanks
Hans Steinwachs - RK 05/02/44 -- Hauptmann-St.G1,SG1,SG151 - ~600FF - MIA - 31 tanks
Peter Gaßmann - RK 25/05/1942 - Major-III./SG 1 - +800FF - 24 tanks
Alwin Boerst - EL 28/11/42 - Major-I./SG2 - 1060FF - 6 tanks
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 14, 2007, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
-
Yesterday, I have updated the "list" by including the numbers of Feind-Flüge (FF=combat missions) given in Dive Bomber and Ground-Attack Aces.
(...And for discussing some additional mumbers...)
These thirty Stuka pilots (...well, some didn't fly the Ju87 exclusivly...) claim to have knocked-out 2049 tanks in 26656 FF...
Anton Hübsch - RK 08/08/44 - Oberfeldwebel-2./SG 2 - 1060FF - +120 tanks...
Gerhard Stüdemann - EL 28/03/45 - Hauptmann-9./St.G 77 -996FF - 117 tanks
Alois Wosnitza - RK 26/02/44 -- Oberfeldwebel-SG 77 - 1217FF - 104 tanks
Hendrik Stahl - EL 24/05/44 -- Hauptmann-8./ SG 2 - +1000FF - +100 tanks
Jakob Jenster - RK 29/02/44 -- Leutnant-t.G1,St.G2 - 960FF - 100 tanks
Wilhelm Joswig - RK 29/02/44 - Oberleutnant-9./St.G2 - 820FF - 88 tanks
Wilhelm Noller - RK 06/04(44 - Leutnant-2./ SG 2 - 1058FF - 86 tanks
Hans Ludwig - RK 08/08/44 -- Feldwebel-10. (Pz) / SG 2 -- + 19.01.1945 - 750FF - 85 tanks
Heinz Edhofer - RK 30/11/44 - Oberfeldwebel-St.G2,SG2 - 600FF - KIA 01.04.1945 - 84 tanks
Siegfried Fischer - RK 28/02/45 15 - Oberfeldwebel-StG1,SG1 - 713FF - POW - 80 tanks
Theodor Nordmann - EL 16/03/43 - Major-II./SG1 - +1111FF - 80 tanks
Kurt Plenzat - EL 24/01/45 - Leutnant-2./SG2 - 1.234FF - ~80 tanks
Hans-Joachim Jäschke - RK26/03/44 - Oberleutnant-4./SG1 - +553FF - 78 tanks
Wilhelm Bromen - RK 16/04/43 - Oberleutnant-7 4/StG 2, SG 151, I(Pz)/SG 9 - 965FF - 76 tanks
Kurt Lau - RK 06/04/44 - Hauptmann-1./St.G 2 - POW - 897FF - ~75 tanks
Rainer Nossek - RK 29/10/44 - Oberleutnant-StG 2, SG 2, SG 3, SG 9 - ~800FF - +73 tanks
Gustav Schubert - EL 24/10/44 - Oberleutnant-I/StG 1, III/StG 1, 9/SG - 1.089FF +70 tanks
Johann Klaus - RK 26/03/44 - Oberleutnant-StG 1, SG 1 - 812FF +65 tanks
Erwin-Peter Diekwisch - RK 15/10/42 - Hauptmann-9/StG 1, III/StG 1, I/SG 5, III/KG 200 - 934FF - 64 tanks
Andreas Kuffner - EL 20/12/44 - Hauptmann-10.(Pz.)/SG 3 - +900FF - 60 tanks
Martin Möbus - EL 27/04/44 - Major-I/StG1, III/StG 1, I./StG 5 - +800FF - 60 tanks
Herbert Bauer - EL 30/09/44 - Hauptmann-I./SG2 - 1071FF - 51 tanks
Egon Stoll-Berberich - RK 29/02/44 - Hauptmann-St.G. 2, JG 51, St.G. 1, SG 151 -734FF - +50 tanks
Josef Huber - RK 20/07/44 -- Oberfeldwebel-SG6 - 721FF - 46 tanks
Hans Luhr - RK 29/02/44 - Oberfeldwebel-St.G77,St.G102 - ~850FF - + 20.09.1944 - 33 tanks
Adolf Weiß - RK 29/02/44 - Oberfeldwebel-St.G. 77, SG 151 - 869FF -+32 tanks
Ernst Orzegowski - RK 14/01/45 - Feldwebel-SG77,SG10 - 682FF - 31 tanks
Hans Steinwachs - RK 05/02/44 -- Hauptmann-St.G1,SG1,SG151 - ~600FF - MIA - 31 tanks
Peter Gaßmann - RK 25/05/1942 - Major-III./SG 1 - +800FF - 24 tanks
Alwin Boerst - EL 28/11/42 - Major-I./SG2 - 1060FF - 6 tanks
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 14, 2007, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
-
Well, that must have been like the dying scene performed by Peewee Herrmann in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", considering that it took until 1953 for Marat to be taken out of service. Dying for 12 years...Originally posted by Andreas:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hetzer38:
"Twelve hundred feet high rises the cloud of the dying Marat"
</font>
-
Well, that must have been like the dying scene performed by Peewee Herrmann in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", considering that it took until 1953 for Marat to be taken out of service. Dying for 12 years...Originally posted by Andreas:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hetzer38:
"Twelve hundred feet high rises the cloud of the dying Marat"
</font>
-
You know what? I finally purchased a used (english) copy of Rudel's book "Stuka Pilot" - in the 2nd hand bookstore down the street...
...and damn it, it's a good read!
I am no good at all in writing summaries, so let's "hear" Rudel's story of the attack on the Marat.
...
* Between 16th and 20th September Rudel's unit flew attacks against the Baltic Fleet with 500kg bombs...On the 16th September Flight Lieutenant Steen summons us to a conference. He explains the military situation and tells us that the particular difficulty holding up the further advance of our armies is the presence of the Russian fleet moving up and down the coast at a certain distance from the shore and intervening in the battles with their formidable naval guns. The Russian fleet is based on Kronstadt, an island in the Gulf of Finland, the largest war harbour in the U.S.S.R. Approximately 12 1/2 miles from Kronstadt lies the harbour of Leningrad and South of it the ports of Oranienbaum and Peterhof. Very strong enemy forces are massed round these two towns on a strip of coast some six miles long. We are told to mark all the positions precisely on our maps so as to ensure our being able to recognize our own front line. We are beginning to guess that these troop concentrations will be our objective when FTt./Lt. Steen gives another turn to the briefing. He comes back to the Russian fleet and explains that our chief concern is the two battleships Marat and Oktobrescaja Revolutia. Both are ships of about 23,000 tons. In addition, there are four or five cruisers, among them the Maxim Gorki and the Kirov, as well as a number of destroyers. The ships constantly change their positions according to which parts of the mainland require the support of their devastating and accurate gunfire.As a rule, however, the battleships navigate only in the deep channel between Kronstadt and Leningrad.
Our wing has just received orders to attack the Russian fleet in the Gulf of Finland. There is no question of using normal bomber-aircraft, any more than normal bombs, for this operation, especially as intense flak must be reckoned with. He tells us that we are awaiting the arrival of two thousand pounder bombs fitted with a special detonator for our purpose.
With normal detonators the bomb would burst ineffectively on the armoured main deck and though the explosion would be sure to rip off some parts of the upper structure it would not result in the sinking of the ship. We cannot expect to succeed and finish off these two leviathans except by the use of a delayed action bomb which must first pierce the upper decks before exploding deep down in the hull of the vessel.
...On the 21st September our two thousand pounders arrive. The next morning reconnaissance reports that the Marat is lying in Kronstadt harbour. They are evidently repairing the damage sustained in our attack of the 16th. I just see red. Now the day has come for me to prove my ability. I get the necessary information about the wind, etc., from the reconnaissance men.Then I am deaf to all around me; I am longing to be off. If I reach the target, I am determined to hit it. I must hit it! We take off with our minds full of the attack; beneath us, the two thousand pounders which are to do the job today. Brilliant blue sky, without a rack of cloud. The same even over the sea. We are already attacked by Russian fighters above the narrow coastal strip; but they cannot deflect us from our objective, there is no question of that.
We are flying at 9000 feet; the flak is deadly.
About ten miles ahead we see Kronstadt; it seems an infinite distance away. With this intensity of flak one stands a good chance of being hit at any moment. The waiting makes the time long.
Dourly, Steen and I keep on our course. We tell ourselves that Ivan is not firing at single aircraft; he is merely putting up a flak barrage at a certain altitude. The others are all over the shop, not only in the squadrons and the flights, but even in the pairs. They think that by varying height and zigzagging they can make the A.A. gunners' task more difficult. There go the two blue-nosed staff aircraft sweeping through all the formations, even the separate flights.
Now one of them loses her bomb. A wild helter-skelter in the sky over Kronstadt; the danger of ramming is great. We are still a few miles from our objective; at an angle ahead of me I can already make out the Marat berthed in the harbour. The guns boom, the shells scream up at us, bursting in flashes of livid colours; the flak forms small fleecy clouds that frolic around us. If it was not in such deadly earnest one might use the phrase: an aerial carnival. I look down on the Marat. Behind her lies the cruiser Kirov. Or is it the Maxim Gorki? These ships have not yet joined in the general bombardment. But it was the same the last time. They do not open up on us until we are diving to the attack. Never has our flight through the defence seemed so slow or so uncomfortable.
Will Steen use his diving brakes today or in the face of this opposition will he go in for once "without"? There he goes. He has already used his brakes. I follow suit, throwing a final glance into his cockpit. His grim face wears an expression of concentration.
Now we are in a dive, close beside each other.
Our diving angle must be between seventy and eighty degrees. I have already picked up the Marat in my sights. We race down towards her; slowly she grows to a gigantic size. All their A.A. guns are now directed at us. Now nothing matters but our target, our objective; if we achieve our task it will save our brothers in arms on the ground much bloodshed. But what is happening? Steen's aircraft suddenly leaves mine far behind. He is traveling much faster. Has he after all again retracted his diving brakes in order to get down more quickly? So I do the same. I race after his aircraft going all out. I am right on his tail, traveling much too fast and unable to check my speed. Straight ahead of me I see the horrified face of W.O. Lehmann, Steen's rear-gunner. He expects every second that I shall cut off his tail unit with my propeller and ram him. I increase my diving angle with all the strength I have got - it must surely be 90 degrees - sit tight as if I were sitting on a powderkeg.
Shall I graze Steen's aircraft which is right on me or shall I get safely past and down? I streak past him within a hair's breadth. Is this an omen of success? The ship is centered plumb in the middle of my sights. My Ju 87 keeps perfectly steady as I dive; she does not swerve an inch. I have the feeling that to miss is now impossible.
Then I see the Marat large as life in front of me. Sailors are running across the deck, arrying ammunition. Now I press the bomb release switch on my stick and pull with all my strength. Can I still manage to pull out? I doubt it, for I am diving without brakes and the height at which I have released my bomb is not more than 900 feet. The skipper has said when briefing us that the two thousand pounder must not be dropped from lower than 3000 feet as the fragmentation effect of this bomb reaches 3000 feet and to drop it at a lower altitude is to endanger one's aircraft. But now I have forgotten that! I am intent on hitting the Marat. I tug at my stick, without feeling, merely exerting all my strength.
My acceleration is too great. I see nothing, my sight is blurred in a momentary blackout, a new experience for me. But if it can be managed at all I must pull out. My head has not yet cleared when I hear Schamovski's voice: "She is blowing up, sir!"
Now I look out. We are skimming the water at a level of ten or twelve feet and I bank round a little. Yonder lies the Marat below a cloud of smoke rising up to 1200 feet; apparently the magazine has exploded.
"Congratulations, sir."
Schamovski is the first. Now there is a babel of congratulations from all the other aircraft over the radio. From all sides I catch the words: "Good show!" Hold on, surely I recognize the Wing Commander's voice? I am conscious of a pleasant glow of exhilaration such as one feels after a successful athletic feat. Then I fancy that I am looking into the eyes of thousands of grateful infantrymen. Back at low level in the direction of the coast.
"Two Russian fighters, sir," reports Schamovski.
"Where are they?"
"Chasing us, sir. They are circling round the fleet in their own flak. Cripes!
They will both be shot down together by their own flak."
This expletive and, above all, the excitement in Schamovski's voice are something quite new to me. This has never happened before. We fly on a level with the concrete blocks on which A.A. guns have also been posted.
We could almost knock the Russian crews off them with our wings. They are still firing at our comrades who are now attacking the other ships.
Then for a moment there is nothing visible through the pall of smoke rising from the Marat. The din down below on the surface of the water must be terrific, for it is not until now that a few flak crews spot my aircraft as it roars close past them. Then they swivel their guns and fire after me; all have had their attention diverted by the main formation flying off high above them. So the luck is with me, an isolated aircraft. The whole neighbourhood is full of A.A. guns; the air is peppered with shrapnel. But it is a comfort to know that this weight of iron is not meant exclusively for me! I am now crossing the coast line. The narrow strip is very unpleasant. It would be impossible to gain height because I could not climb fast enough to reach a safe altitude. So I stay down. Past machine guns and flak. Panic-stricken Russians hurl themselves flat on the ground. Then again Schamovski shouts:
"A Rata coming up behind us!"
I look round and see a Russian fighter about 300 yards astern.
"Let him have it, Schamovski!"
Schamovski does not utter a sound. Ivan is blazing away at a range of only a few inches. I take wild evasive action.
"Are you mad, Schamovski? Fire! I'll have you put under arrest." I yell at him!
Schamovski does not fire. Now he says deliberately: "I am holding fire, sir, because I can see a German Me coming up behind and if I open up on the Rata I may damage the Messerschmitt." That closes the subject as far as Schamovski is concerned; but I am sweating with the suspense. The tracers are going wider on either side of me. I weave like mad.
"You can turn round now, sir. The Me has shot down the Rata." I bank round slightly and look back. It is as Schamovski says; there she lies down below. Now a Me passes groggily.
"Schamovski, it will be a pleasure to confirm our fighter's claim to have shot that one down." He does not reply. He is rather hurt that I was not content to trust his judgment before. I know him; he will sit there and sulk until we land. How many operational flights have we made together when he has not opened his lips the whole time we have been in the air.
After landing, all the crews are paraded in front of the squadron tent. We are told by Flt./Lt. Steen that the Wing Commander has already rung up to congratulate the 3rd squadron on its achievement. He had personally witnessed the very impressive explosion. Steen is instructed to report the name of the officer who was the first to dive and drop the successful two thousand pounder in order that he may be recommended for the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross.
With a side-glance in my direction he says: "Forgive me for telling the Kommodore that I am so proud of the whole squadron that I would prefer it if our success is attributed to the squadron as a whole."
In the tent he wrings my hand. "You no longer need a battleship for special mention in despatches," he says with a boyish laugh.
The Wing Commander rings up. "It is sinking day for the 3rd. You are to take off immediately for another attack on the Kirov berthed behind the Marat. Good hunting!" The photographs taken by our latest aircraft show that the Marat has split in two. This can be seen on the picture taken after the tremendous cloud of smoke from the explosion had begun to dissipate.
"Twelve hundred feet high rises the cloud of the dying Marat"
"The 'Marat' was literally torn in two by direct hits from our bombs."
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 10, 2007, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
-
You know what? I finally purchased a used (english) copy of Rudel's book "Stuka Pilot" - in the 2nd hand bookstore down the street...
...and damn it, it's a good read!
I am no good at all in writing summaries, so let's "hear" Rudel's story of the attack on the Marat.
...
* Between 16th and 20th September Rudel's unit flew attacks against the Baltic Fleet with 500kg bombs...On the 16th September Flight Lieutenant Steen summons us to a conference. He explains the military situation and tells us that the particular difficulty holding up the further advance of our armies is the presence of the Russian fleet moving up and down the coast at a certain distance from the shore and intervening in the battles with their formidable naval guns. The Russian fleet is based on Kronstadt, an island in the Gulf of Finland, the largest war harbour in the U.S.S.R. Approximately 12 1/2 miles from Kronstadt lies the harbour of Leningrad and South of it the ports of Oranienbaum and Peterhof. Very strong enemy forces are massed round these two towns on a strip of coast some six miles long. We are told to mark all the positions precisely on our maps so as to ensure our being able to recognize our own front line. We are beginning to guess that these troop concentrations will be our objective when FTt./Lt. Steen gives another turn to the briefing. He comes back to the Russian fleet and explains that our chief concern is the two battleships Marat and Oktobrescaja Revolutia. Both are ships of about 23,000 tons. In addition, there are four or five cruisers, among them the Maxim Gorki and the Kirov, as well as a number of destroyers. The ships constantly change their positions according to which parts of the mainland require the support of their devastating and accurate gunfire.As a rule, however, the battleships navigate only in the deep channel between Kronstadt and Leningrad.
Our wing has just received orders to attack the Russian fleet in the Gulf of Finland. There is no question of using normal bomber-aircraft, any more than normal bombs, for this operation, especially as intense flak must be reckoned with. He tells us that we are awaiting the arrival of two thousand pounder bombs fitted with a special detonator for our purpose.
With normal detonators the bomb would burst ineffectively on the armoured main deck and though the explosion would be sure to rip off some parts of the upper structure it would not result in the sinking of the ship. We cannot expect to succeed and finish off these two leviathans except by the use of a delayed action bomb which must first pierce the upper decks before exploding deep down in the hull of the vessel.
...On the 21st September our two thousand pounders arrive. The next morning reconnaissance reports that the Marat is lying in Kronstadt harbour. They are evidently repairing the damage sustained in our attack of the 16th. I just see red. Now the day has come for me to prove my ability. I get the necessary information about the wind, etc., from the reconnaissance men.Then I am deaf to all around me; I am longing to be off. If I reach the target, I am determined to hit it. I must hit it! We take off with our minds full of the attack; beneath us, the two thousand pounders which are to do the job today. Brilliant blue sky, without a rack of cloud. The same even over the sea. We are already attacked by Russian fighters above the narrow coastal strip; but they cannot deflect us from our objective, there is no question of that.
We are flying at 9000 feet; the flak is deadly.
About ten miles ahead we see Kronstadt; it seems an infinite distance away. With this intensity of flak one stands a good chance of being hit at any moment. The waiting makes the time long.
Dourly, Steen and I keep on our course. We tell ourselves that Ivan is not firing at single aircraft; he is merely putting up a flak barrage at a certain altitude. The others are all over the shop, not only in the squadrons and the flights, but even in the pairs. They think that by varying height and zigzagging they can make the A.A. gunners' task more difficult. There go the two blue-nosed staff aircraft sweeping through all the formations, even the separate flights.
Now one of them loses her bomb. A wild helter-skelter in the sky over Kronstadt; the danger of ramming is great. We are still a few miles from our objective; at an angle ahead of me I can already make out the Marat berthed in the harbour. The guns boom, the shells scream up at us, bursting in flashes of livid colours; the flak forms small fleecy clouds that frolic around us. If it was not in such deadly earnest one might use the phrase: an aerial carnival. I look down on the Marat. Behind her lies the cruiser Kirov. Or is it the Maxim Gorki? These ships have not yet joined in the general bombardment. But it was the same the last time. They do not open up on us until we are diving to the attack. Never has our flight through the defence seemed so slow or so uncomfortable.
Will Steen use his diving brakes today or in the face of this opposition will he go in for once "without"? There he goes. He has already used his brakes. I follow suit, throwing a final glance into his cockpit. His grim face wears an expression of concentration.
Now we are in a dive, close beside each other.
Our diving angle must be between seventy and eighty degrees. I have already picked up the Marat in my sights. We race down towards her; slowly she grows to a gigantic size. All their A.A. guns are now directed at us. Now nothing matters but our target, our objective; if we achieve our task it will save our brothers in arms on the ground much bloodshed. But what is happening? Steen's aircraft suddenly leaves mine far behind. He is traveling much faster. Has he after all again retracted his diving brakes in order to get down more quickly? So I do the same. I race after his aircraft going all out. I am right on his tail, traveling much too fast and unable to check my speed. Straight ahead of me I see the horrified face of W.O. Lehmann, Steen's rear-gunner. He expects every second that I shall cut off his tail unit with my propeller and ram him. I increase my diving angle with all the strength I have got - it must surely be 90 degrees - sit tight as if I were sitting on a powderkeg.
Shall I graze Steen's aircraft which is right on me or shall I get safely past and down? I streak past him within a hair's breadth. Is this an omen of success? The ship is centered plumb in the middle of my sights. My Ju 87 keeps perfectly steady as I dive; she does not swerve an inch. I have the feeling that to miss is now impossible.
Then I see the Marat large as life in front of me. Sailors are running across the deck, arrying ammunition. Now I press the bomb release switch on my stick and pull with all my strength. Can I still manage to pull out? I doubt it, for I am diving without brakes and the height at which I have released my bomb is not more than 900 feet. The skipper has said when briefing us that the two thousand pounder must not be dropped from lower than 3000 feet as the fragmentation effect of this bomb reaches 3000 feet and to drop it at a lower altitude is to endanger one's aircraft. But now I have forgotten that! I am intent on hitting the Marat. I tug at my stick, without feeling, merely exerting all my strength.
My acceleration is too great. I see nothing, my sight is blurred in a momentary blackout, a new experience for me. But if it can be managed at all I must pull out. My head has not yet cleared when I hear Schamovski's voice: "She is blowing up, sir!"
Now I look out. We are skimming the water at a level of ten or twelve feet and I bank round a little. Yonder lies the Marat below a cloud of smoke rising up to 1200 feet; apparently the magazine has exploded.
"Congratulations, sir."
Schamovski is the first. Now there is a babel of congratulations from all the other aircraft over the radio. From all sides I catch the words: "Good show!" Hold on, surely I recognize the Wing Commander's voice? I am conscious of a pleasant glow of exhilaration such as one feels after a successful athletic feat. Then I fancy that I am looking into the eyes of thousands of grateful infantrymen. Back at low level in the direction of the coast.
"Two Russian fighters, sir," reports Schamovski.
"Where are they?"
"Chasing us, sir. They are circling round the fleet in their own flak. Cripes!
They will both be shot down together by their own flak."
This expletive and, above all, the excitement in Schamovski's voice are something quite new to me. This has never happened before. We fly on a level with the concrete blocks on which A.A. guns have also been posted.
We could almost knock the Russian crews off them with our wings. They are still firing at our comrades who are now attacking the other ships.
Then for a moment there is nothing visible through the pall of smoke rising from the Marat. The din down below on the surface of the water must be terrific, for it is not until now that a few flak crews spot my aircraft as it roars close past them. Then they swivel their guns and fire after me; all have had their attention diverted by the main formation flying off high above them. So the luck is with me, an isolated aircraft. The whole neighbourhood is full of A.A. guns; the air is peppered with shrapnel. But it is a comfort to know that this weight of iron is not meant exclusively for me! I am now crossing the coast line. The narrow strip is very unpleasant. It would be impossible to gain height because I could not climb fast enough to reach a safe altitude. So I stay down. Past machine guns and flak. Panic-stricken Russians hurl themselves flat on the ground. Then again Schamovski shouts:
"A Rata coming up behind us!"
I look round and see a Russian fighter about 300 yards astern.
"Let him have it, Schamovski!"
Schamovski does not utter a sound. Ivan is blazing away at a range of only a few inches. I take wild evasive action.
"Are you mad, Schamovski? Fire! I'll have you put under arrest." I yell at him!
Schamovski does not fire. Now he says deliberately: "I am holding fire, sir, because I can see a German Me coming up behind and if I open up on the Rata I may damage the Messerschmitt." That closes the subject as far as Schamovski is concerned; but I am sweating with the suspense. The tracers are going wider on either side of me. I weave like mad.
"You can turn round now, sir. The Me has shot down the Rata." I bank round slightly and look back. It is as Schamovski says; there she lies down below. Now a Me passes groggily.
"Schamovski, it will be a pleasure to confirm our fighter's claim to have shot that one down." He does not reply. He is rather hurt that I was not content to trust his judgment before. I know him; he will sit there and sulk until we land. How many operational flights have we made together when he has not opened his lips the whole time we have been in the air.
After landing, all the crews are paraded in front of the squadron tent. We are told by Flt./Lt. Steen that the Wing Commander has already rung up to congratulate the 3rd squadron on its achievement. He had personally witnessed the very impressive explosion. Steen is instructed to report the name of the officer who was the first to dive and drop the successful two thousand pounder in order that he may be recommended for the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross.
With a side-glance in my direction he says: "Forgive me for telling the Kommodore that I am so proud of the whole squadron that I would prefer it if our success is attributed to the squadron as a whole."
In the tent he wrings my hand. "You no longer need a battleship for special mention in despatches," he says with a boyish laugh.
The Wing Commander rings up. "It is sinking day for the 3rd. You are to take off immediately for another attack on the Kirov berthed behind the Marat. Good hunting!" The photographs taken by our latest aircraft show that the Marat has split in two. This can be seen on the picture taken after the tremendous cloud of smoke from the explosion had begun to dissipate.
"Twelve hundred feet high rises the cloud of the dying Marat"
"The 'Marat' was literally torn in two by direct hits from our bombs."
Cheers, Hetzer.
[ March 10, 2007, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Hetzer38 ]
Ju-87/G Stuka tankbuster info (cross post fm CMAK)
in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Posted
Here's some more info from Martin Pegg's "Hs 129 Panzerjäger!":
[...I'll summarize the rest...]* Added advantage of attacking from behind:
- if own aircraft is hit during approach, you're already flying in the general direction of your own troops...
* Disadvantages
- target is very small when viewed from behind, pilot has to be an excellent marksman;
- in order to ensure hits @ 90° @ rear sloped armor, you have to fire while being in a dive and in order to avoid crashing into target, you have to pull out at greater range than if you were attacking horizontally. (...or you press it home to point-blank range and...KABOOM!)
Walter Krause, who flew with 10.(Pz)/SG9, confirmed that because of the dangers of this method of attack his Staffel performed horizontal attacks as a standard. Using the fuselage-mounted weapons to correct aim, pilots would open fire @ close range with MK 101 / MK 103 cannon, usually from ~250-50 m (~820-164 ft), banking immediatly to avoid any explosion if the target detonated immediatly after being hit.
Here's a nice photo showing the white diagonal lines painted on the port glass side panel. These lines (calibrated for 10°,20° and 30° dives) aided the pilot in aligning with the horizon during diving attacks.
[from: Squadron Signal No 1176 "HS 129 In Action"]
And here's a self-explaining scan from Martin Pegg's "Hs 129-bible":
Cheers, Hetzer.