I suspect this debate really doesn't belong on this forum. But here goes. I think members of the SS were indeed criminals. I think you're missing the difference between petty criminals and sociopaths. You've listed plenty of good reasons bright young gentlemen had to join the SS... but in my mind the 'criminal' aspect associated with SS comes from the actions carried out by the organization and its members during the war, as in 'war criminal' or 'crimes against humanity' rather than any idea that they were a bunch of street muggers. What they were is a bunch of fanatical mass-murderers. I guess i see your point, i accept your defense of the SS in that members probably weren't 'criminals' in any sense at the time they joined, but if you point that out you ought also to recognize that a great many were by 1945. To insist that SS members were honest and upstanding members of society when they joined is very much beside the point, what's important is what these oh-so-upstanding people went on to do. I don't want to accuse you of any agenda, but when did anyone say the SS were always petty criminal low-lifes? Why do you even bother refuting this? Finally, for what it's worth, I also believe that any elite force, from any nation, will attract more than its fair share of sociopaths. That's my 2 cents.