Wartgamer

That works for me too.

I think the Macroplayback is best used to quickly ascertain if things like victory locations have changed hands, Tanks have been destroyed, etc. Details like infantry types, tank models, etc not being reported at this level. Having HQ based relative spotting playback perspective could bring the player up to speed as far as more locale based events. This puts the player in the frame of mind of that HQ locale. Having the player then issue to orders to all units under that HQ would be a nice progression. Again, having a Fastplay option would be nice to decrease viewing times. Especially for the Macroplayback. [ February 27, 2005, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]

I play PBEM 98% of the time. Most other times its just doing some tests. If the files get too big, can they not be broken down to 1 meg chunks? These can then be reassembled by the game? Even this could get cludgey if the game turns are 20 megs or so.

It isn't a test as much as personal preferences. I am beginning to think that some form of relative spotting playback is desirable. Especially if the game uses many 'spooks' or false info reports. Perhaps having relative spotting playback for just HQ type units? I don't know the inner workings of the game but I do not believe that a unique movie would have to ground out for each HQ. It would be the same movie with just his perspective acting as a 'filter'.

Depends on how the game develops the movie. As it is now, its a fixed file. As the game ticks each time unit (lets say its a second increment), the game 'develops' the movie. It just needs to know if units have been spotted for each time increment. It doesnt care who spotted what and 'forgets' this info. It develops this info fresh for the next time increment. But with relative spotting, you must have a spotter based 'database' and wether you memorize that constantly changing database or not determines if you can do relative spotting playback. You may just keep the last developed database for each unit (for the orders phase) and toss the other 59 out.

I added to that post

I am not sure that the playback movie can be watched from just the unit's perspective like I thought. It seems the designer is saying that you will be presented with a single playback movie of varying degrees of accumulated info (depends on a reality setting selected before play) and that's it. During the orders phase, when you select a friendly unit, its perspective will be presented and you will issue orders from viewing that info. Or maybe not? The problem would seem to be that the game would have to keep a track (database) of what the single unit sees during the whole turn. This is sort of a chronology of events that 'click' during the turn. If the playback movie could just display what and when the unit sees the enemy, I suppose that it is possible to have a playback movie from a relative spotting perspective? [ February 27, 2005, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]

I wonder if this need for microviews will make PBEM files impossibly large? That is, is there a need for an individual movie for each units turn perspective? The movie tracks what the individual unit sees in each timeslice. [ February 27, 2005, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]

I think my expectations of Realistic Fog of War options are pretty hard core, I but I have no interest in watching the movie play back over and over again from the spotting perspective of EACH friendly unit. (but if its an option I guess some folks might be interested in that kind of "challenge" and call it "fun" ) -tom w I suppose that there is also Relative FOW. That is, just as there is Relative Spotting, there is Relative FOW from the unit's perspective. The game must have some macroview, so that if there is PBEM, a person can view the movie and turn it around to the sender if its not an 'orders' turn. The FOW in this macroview might be some accumulation of info or best left generic. But I think the heart of it is the microview at the unit's perspective. That is the heart of the improvement. [ February 27, 2005, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]

The idea of a unit perspective movie that is based on that unit's relative spotting could include not only enemy units but also just the friendlies that unit can see. This adds more fun (depends on what you call fun I suppose). I see the cmx2 movie to be some sort of macro viewing intially and then many microviewings. In some cases, like a tank battle in open terrain, a macro view could be sufficient that the microviews may be watched superquick or even skipped over.

This concept can also model the concept of reserves nicely. A formation, lets say a tank destroyer platoon, is designated a Reserve. It will then be the last formation that will be given orders. It therefore benefits from the overall Command Intel that the player has accumulated . This is the natural memory the player will have by the end of the Formation by Formation orders process.

I have brought this up before, the idea that the game selects the unit it wants you to 'order'. The game determines who knows least and you are forced to order that unit first. The implication is that least intel units can not share from 'max' intel units. Having this done by a Formation by Formation process might stop the 'jump-around' that might occur. So all the jump-around is within a company lets say. Once that Company is finished, then the next company (or tank platoon, etc) starts.

So a PBEM player (assuming there is PBEM), would want to watch the movie from each unit's perspective? I say 'want to watch' for the obvious reason that he can logically determine 'God' type info from the individual relative info. I can't see how anyone could really comprehend/enjoy the game otherwise. How does this effect TCP/IP play? Does it force a player to try to 'watch' the movie from only several perspectives? Perhaps an abstraction could be an 'Absolute' combination of all HQ units relative spotting combined. This would include 'passed' info from other units with a resulting loss of detail. Another alternative is to 'force-view' the units. It works like this: 1. Pick unit (or game selects unit for you) 2. Movie plays from his perspective (a time accelerator would help here so maybe the movie is seen in 'fast' time) 3. Unit must now be given orders. 4. Next unit is chosen by player or force fed him by game. Movie plays from his perspective, orders then issued. 5. No going back and editting units orders.

Is there a link to a translator for Combat MIssion Speak?

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We don't need email. Now or in the future. Just cut and paste your turns right here. It will certainly make better reading than most posts.

Yes they are relevant to what a coder would need to know if a designer (who was not a coder) suggested these 'design' ideas. My point is that you that you think about them before you start coding. Thats systems engineering. AS far as a game like cmx2, everyone is a lay person to a degree. IT hasnt been done before. And yes I have coded.

Has anyone really chosen to go on about it?

As for markers being left behind... think Relative Spotting! If one unit spots a unit and the last known location is in a house, the marker stays on that house. Another unit comes and looks at that house, but has no knowledge of the enemy unit, there won't be a marker there at all. But if the second friendly unit spots the same enemy unit someplace else, then a marker goes on that location. If there is no communication between the two friendly units then there will be TWO markers for that one unit. The first thinks the unit is in the house, the second knows it is someplace else. This has implications to the spotter based 'database' that Relative Spotting seems to imply. You are implying that each 'units' spotter database will also include 'spooks' as well as actual spotted units. How big will each 'units' database be?

I guess I was thinking of Seanachai when I mentioned "gayly colored poisonous froots". But he does have a rotten useless "gnarled root", or so I hear.

I actually seem to favor Porn, Drunkeness, Online Gambling and (of course) Wargaming.

Forghettaboutit. When you are up, you never think about what its like to be down. When you are down. You are always looking up. Wait. When you are down and out ..you are always looking up...and in... Err.... No. Thats not it. Maybe some liquor might help. I think I got it now. Ahem. Remember!, At least you got your health. That, and those French Fries from the Dumpster. Amen. [ February 26, 2005, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]

Nightwatch has no real job neither. And I suspect he is somebody else. Unfortunately, I do not know that many people that he could be but I do have my suspicions.

PRIAPUS (pl. PRIAPI and PRIAPUSES) = lecherous male (from the Greek god of male fertility) What is with this accusing everyone that joins these threads of being someone else? Is it not enough that most people here are all warmongering misfits that have no real lives? They must also include some paranoia to add intringue? And Dale, do you make the pizzas or do you just deliver them in your Ford Fiesta? [ February 26, 2005, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]

You keep saying 'Spotting' and 'Units'. But a big question is how does 1:1 play into spotting/FOW?