Les the Sarge 9-1

I think I am correct in saying SC was Mr Cater's first creation. Frankly I think the man did a very good job on his first try. That he might give us SC2 eventually, will please a lot of people obviously. What I think needs to be said, is SC2 will likely be a major enhancement to the SC experience if his first creation is any indication. I know I will likely be in there with cash ready. Can't see it being a bad purchase at any rate. [ October 05, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Les the Sarge 9-1 ]

Veki, you lost me on only one count, full campaign. To many people to insistent that the game can only be played if it begins in 39. Currently I am only in one game, and I like the game best when it is Barbarossa or post 1941. Post 1941 the game removes a lot of "expert" silliness and makes the game seem more like WW2. Interested in 42 or 43? I want to see how well I can run allies in those settings if you are interested. If the answer is no a simple no here will be enough for myself Kurt warm up the war hehe, had a slight computer hassle here (thankfully averted). Hoping to bash away at our game full tilt this week. Apologies for slow down there.

Good idea, the other thread did have a great bunch of posts, but the title was distressing. Oh and just so I can say I said it, but not in a way to be annoying, I won't mention (insert game name here) . You guys are all smart enough to figure that out hehe.

This thread proves the SC community cares about the SC community. Now regarding the General Forum, well that News thread might be a slight improvement. A massive improvement would be to just use my suggestion though. No I am not saying whatever I say is gold (because it ain't), but hmm I can't yet understand why Battlefront can't wrap their mind around a General Discussion Forum with a no politics please notion, and a "Soapbox Forum" for people that will insist on posting comments that are about "POLITICS". Example, there is a thread on the Canadians recently injured in Afganistan. Yes I have some comments on that matter. But I am not going to bother posting them. And I would not consider them as the sort of dialogue I would want in a friendly coffee shop environment where old grognards and newbies can blather on about the merits of their favourite way to wargame. Software limitations? Well I am no expert on forum software, but until an actual expert explains to me why my notion WON'T fly, I can't see why I shouldn't ask for it. That said, I am not planning on taking my wargaming thoughts elsewhere You guys are stuck with me in here.

Hmm I am concerned people think I am specifically singling them out. I have not done that as of yet. That can be taken only one way I hope, I have not yet intentionally insulted anyone on this thread. I hope no insult has been preceived. Political Rant. Ok let me define exactly what I meant by a "political rant". Something pertaining to (insert nation here) and their current behaviour here (insert geographical region here) as of the last year or more recent, even yesterday. Or some specific event that has only recently happened ie the most obvious being 9/11. I know I can't speak on these topics and remain civil. And I have not yet met anyone else that could either actually. Not online or next door. These topics only serve to make us angry and incite statements no one benefits from. I am not seeking to isolate anyone though. I just want people to accept, that politics, ie current politics, can't be discussed without the poster going and getting uncivil. Can't be done. So if we turfed politics off of General would General die? No of course not. There just wouldn't be any rants about say the current situation in Iraq to name the most obvious. What would I like to discuss in General, that is not considered exceptable here. Ok at the risk of giving examples that will get my hand slapped, I will list them (as much as I can think of them) Wargaming being the easiet I will start there. Squad Leader Advanced Squad Leader Panzer Blitz Panzer Leader Arab Israelis Wars Third Reich Advanced Third Reich World In Flames A World At War Anzio Fortress Europa Russian Campaign Russian Front Up Front Longest Day Europa series Sniper Assault System Pacific War Those are all board games eh I like to discuss VASL and other software programs that run board games too. Then there are computer games such as Panzer General Allied General Panzer General 2 People's General Steel Panthers WW2 Steel Panthers MBT Steel Panthers WaW Steel Panthers Mega Campaigns Older programs like Tanks or V4 Victory series Combat Mission Panzer Elite TOAW TAO 2 Panzer Commander Axis And Allies East Front 2 West Front Rising Sun Close Combat And there might be more Lets see it ain't just wargaming the moves my world. War movies Military Documentaries Science documentaries Models both military theme and otherwise. Anime Books and the craft of writing Music Film in general Games outside the realm of wargaming such as Worms (always a laugh). Woodworking Family stuff (hey I have one and it enters my thinking enough) And that list was just me. I imagine it could be made longer if everyone contributed to it. But sadly, it isn't welcome in SC to discuss it, it ain't about the game. Nothing wrong with that request though. When I come in here, I generally expect that SC will be the focus. Not the end of the world. But the general discussions forum, nope, I can't see my list co existing with the political rants. Nothing in it for me. And frankly, there are dozens of wargaming sites out there that don't mind setting up a dual set up, one for the more in your face aggressive posters, and one where it is assumed, keep it civil or get booted into the other forum. The reason the SC forums have become sluggish, is because those that were here on day one, have said all there is to be said about the game's design, it's future and what might be good or bad about it. There comes a time though, when repeating the same material tends to get a little dry. And that is a problem that just doesn't have a solution. The new member will come in, and ask a question that makes perfect sense, but the old member will have long tired of discussing that topic. And the only solution offered at Battlefront, is to basically shut up. Not what I would call an ideal solution though. The idea that Battlefront can't produce a forum dedicated to the political activist in the crowd, and leave General Discussion for just that, discussions about this and that, but excluding the politically charged topics is silly. They are making it a choice, nothing more.

JJ there are two types of posters in the field of political rants (as best as I can perceive). There are persons that flock to sites where wargamers frequent, that seem MORE interested in the political rants than wargaming. Or in some cases, they can't seem to give much evidence they are even there for the wargaming. And there are wargamers that value wargaming above their need for political rants. But being human, are understandably going to have political viewpoints as much as anyone else. But don't want to spend every waking moment on the forum tirelessly pursuing them. I have met some persons online, and they seem relatively uninterested in anything other than the political rants. And some of them, well they seem just plain socially maladjusted at times. I want you to understand JJ I don't think of you as being an obnoxious poster, only interested in ranting endlessly about nothing other than the latest political hot topic. I have posted a few political rants in my time. But they become very tedious, very uninteresting and very unsatisfying at light speed with me at least. The parties in question, the ones we are ranting about, they won't hear thing one any of us say about them after all. That is one reason I find that sort of rant kinda a waste of good forum space. They accomplish absolutely nothing for any of us (except to allow us to get into heated debates and say nasty things to each other, like I want to defend that privilege hehe ). The only people I have ever met online, whom I have no desire to ever meet in person either, are basically people who only seem interested in heated debates about political rants. They end up having nothing nice to say to me personally. Their comments usually end up being anti social personal attacks. And really, I don't think anyone really needs anything like that in their day. I don't think that describes you though JJ.

Ok in a light hearted vein I think it would be fun to create a library of words that describe the SC experience. I will lead off with one I conjured during my last turn of my current game. To be "noviced". Or in other words, your opponent inflicted some effect that made it clear you were missing something. I think I have been noviced in my handling of Finland thus far in my Barbarossa game. Not sure yet, but in two turns I will be surprised if they are still there hehe.

I will risk it then be done with it. I will reiterate, I would loooooove it if Battlefront gave us a General Forum that had all the hostile political rants moved to where hostile political rants belong, somewhere else on site. Battlefront is the only site I can think of that doesn't have a spot reserved for the more over the top political rants from it's membership. I suggested this once. I was told to drop dead in so many words. Battlefront does not wish to give us a General Forum sans political rants. They merely wish to give us one forum, a free for all experience where threads plunge at light speed due to atypical political rants. Can't picture why they can't just give us a Generic Forum where modern politics are considered unwelcome. There are likely lots of Battlefront members that would gladly abandon the political rant crowd in a second for a more laid back wargamer discussion environment where we could ramble on about CM SC and other wargamer passions. I think the political rant crowd might even wish to dump us for that matter. I think that is part of the reason we have some that won't venture out of the SC forum. They don't like the General Forum any more than I do. But I know it isn't going to happen. And I won't be asking for it again any time soon.

This thread has been well contributed to I must say. I need to add some remarks, some might be a bit dangerous, but it's a risk I am willing to take. First dangerous remark. SC is discussed in many places far removed from Battlefront and Battlefront's rules. Second remark that might annoy. If the rules kill the forum, the rules will be to blame. No one needs to panic though, see remark number one. Another good point is this, the game is getting old as computer games go. It is not that the game loses worth over time, but this is the age of the computer experience. Or at least a lot of people think that wargaming only occurs on computers. It has been my notice, that outside of board games, electronic forms of entertainment often only keep their audience as long as it takes the next bloke to make the next game. Are you going to dump Sc the moment joe game designer creates the "next thing"?, or will you still be playing SC a year from now (like I will). I have contributed on other forums, for other games. Sometimes the forums with specific games, sees that point where it has all been already said where key issues are concerned. All that is left is the community. And most of the posts revolve around general comraderie and shared mutual interest. Dangerous remark number three, maybe Battlefront should decide if their site is more about sales, and less about community. Is there a reason for these forums to exist at all? A valid question. That is not what I would like to see, but this site belongs to it's owners. My number one favourite wargame's home site is basically an electronic storefront, it has no interactive forum at all. To get babble on the game, you have to seek out either a mailing list, or find a site that sponsors a forum devoted to the game. If these forums suddenly shut down, would it hurt my ability to enjoy Battlefront games? Not one bit actually. I found the SC demo in their downloads. I gave it a try, I liked it. There was no forum activity that pre dated my approval of the design. It was not a major factor in my accepting the game. In short, this forum had nothing to do with my liking the game in those key critical moments. I might yet take the plunge with Combat Mission. Yet I have never once visited the CM forums, and likely will never bother. I just don't require them. That is not a slag, just an indication they are not "vital" to whether I want the game. And further to that, I know of several sites, complete with CM dedicated forums that would suit me if I did need them, and the Battlefront options vanished. Dangerous remark number 4. Quite frankly, none of us "needs" these forums to be specifically at Battlefront. It is just assumed, you would expect a game's producers to have them handy. But that is just that, one would assume they would be here. I might be posting a great many more posts amongst my fellow players of SC in general banter and occasionally not 100% about SC. But that is not allowed. Thou shalt not use Battlefront to advertise anyone else nor their products. A fair request, it ain't my site, and I ain't paying for the expense of total strangers to post comments not entirely supportive of Battlefront. But that will never stop it from seeming unfriendly when it seems to be the norm on so many other forums. Their choice to make, but they will have to accept any repercutions from their choices too. If all of a sudden post traffic in here slowed to the point the last post showed a date stamp measured in days weeks months, and not in hours or minutes, you can bet it would signal to anyone entering it, that the subject matter had fizzled and no one cared to contribute any longer. At that point, its mere existence would be actually harmful to sales. I was greeeeeeeeeeeatly concerned over whether my returning was well advised. But I had it more or less made evident elsewhere, that I really should be here expressing these thoughts. Therefore that is why I am saying what I am saying. This is the place to say them. As such I do not live in fear of being Banned for any of this posts comments. This has been a rational and calm post about real and serious issues and concerns connected to our mutual enjoyment of the SC game. To ban me for any of this post would be pure folly. I would only lose out on posting here. I would not be prevented from playing the game, nor talking about it on the internet . Hopefully some measure of success will be achieved for the Battlefront SC crowd in all of this. It would be a shame if everyone drifted off. We could always meet elsewhere, but people would logically be looking at Battlefront first.

I will counter, that the SC community is NOT dying, maybe some of the lunacy has died off, but that has nothing to do with the SC community nor it's interest in the game. I am currently playing a PBEM game with a person who is "into" the game. I have two others I need to get more active with admittedly. But SC's as done as dinner from a design perspective though, so rambling on about SC "need to improve" issues is really not accomplishing much. I am sure Hubert will notice any notions for any evolution of the game that actually state something useful, but then so many people package their request with a layer of urgency that is assuming Hubert has nothing better to do. I hear you on the problem of how does two SC playing fans of the game, carry on a pro SC player discussion, without leaving out several paragraphs devoted to dissecting the game in some way that hasn't already been stated to death. SC is a finite game though. Once it becomes clear it is done, not about to be modified tweaked or altered any further, the only thing left is to post comments on your most recent game, and what you thought of your tactics. But AARs only hold so much value. The SC forums might fizzle out if they only allow postings drippign with SC commentary, but the SC community will still be out there playing the game. I know I will be out here playing the game. It's not like the game is suddenly going to stop being a good game. I also still play games I bought decades ago. And I also still discuss them online too. But I won't be mentioning any of them (I was told not to, and them's the rules). About all I can do to contribute to THIS forums health, is to constantly remind people, it's not this forum that defines the game, its you players that define the game.

Rambo, the best thing you can do for SC, is to go out into wargaming land and drag new blood back to the game. I do this all the time for games I like. Never ceases to amaze me that people have often never even heard of games we thought no one could have missed. Call it strange, but frankly SC is not known by everyone out there. With your having played the game so often, you are in a position to know it backwards and forwards. There are a lot of wargamers out there that are SC types, but they just don't know SC exists. When I get jaded with a game, teaching it to new people always seems to make it interesting again. So that's your next challenge perhaps. To go out and see how many new wargamers you can find. Get someone to mention "I discovered SC because of some guy named Rambo".

Ok I am not wanting to sound mean, but I support the admins for supporting their own guidelines. I took a stab at being an moderator, it is not likely unknown to a lot of people that I was a mod elsewhere in the world of wargaming. I attempted to do just what Moon is doing, keep a wargaming forum about wargaming. It wasn't well received. Some people just won't listen to you till you get nasty and take that decisive action. The SC forum really is the SC forum only in name. And I don't envy Moon trying to make it better than it is now. I would rather the goofiness be toned down believe it or not. Yes I have participated on some forums where it actually does get rather goofy. And I am guilty of posting some of the dumber grade of posts as well. But it does clutter up the forums in the process. I tend to prefer to talk wargames in the wargames section, and general banter in the General forum. I think the SC forum should be about decent SC discussions. We can all slip in pleasantries in a post. But threads and posts solely dedicated to being idiotic are not working. Sadly it is all past news that I would prefer the General forum here at Battlefront, be separate from all the over the top political diatribes. But it isn't going to happen (so I just don't bother with them, easy enough choice to make). SC is a fine enough game, and grand strategy games often attract a fine measure of indepth historical based discussion. But the threads that possess the fine discussions always get booted off page one by such rediculous space wasting silliness. Sure it can be funny, but it is indeed intrusive to the good threads I would rather have instead. I came back. I posted a few posts. But I have been sitting out here mostly silent, because there is still to much class clown behaviour, and not enough serious discussion going on. SC2 is never going to arrive if Hubert has to get his input diluted with all the insanity guys.

Sorry Kuni to me a padlock is nothing at Battlefront. It's just policy. Moon wanted me to stop being so vocal about outside sources, I can relate to that. I started the thread more as a way of just saying hello. Certainly didn't expect it to be as popular, and I am actually impressed it lacked totally anything negative. Only hoping to locate anyone that feels either intimidated by the hardcore, or uninterested in the overly structure scene. But that's about the size of it. I have zero experience in playing in leagues, largely as they don't interest me. Never been on a ladder, no past background with AREA either. I will say that SC is shaping up to be my PBEM game of choice though. Although considering I have only played Steel Panthers that way 2 other times, and that sums up my entire past history of PBEM hehe. I think once I have a few more games under my belt though, I might even take a stab at a TCP/IP game (I think I got those letters correct).

Sorry Kuni to me a padlock is nothing at Battlefront. It's just policy. Moon wanted me to stop being so vocal about outside sources, I can relate to that. I started the thread more as a way of just saying hello. Certainly didn't expect it to be as popular, and I am actually impressed it lacked totally anything negative. Only hoping to locate anyone that feels either intimidated by the hardcore, or uninterested in the overly structure scene. But that's about the size of it. I have zero experience in playing in leagues, largely as they don't interest me. Never been on a ladder, no past background with AREA either. I will say that SC is shaping up to be my PBEM game of choice though. Although considering I have only played Steel Panthers that way 2 other times, and that sums up my entire past history of PBEM hehe. I think once I have a few more games under my belt though, I might even take a stab at a TCP/IP game (I think I got those letters correct).

Ok I am not trying to irritate the league dudes. Just serving notice, that some of us just want to play. Sign on if you want to become part of the non-league. Remember people, being part of a non league means you are not in a league hehe.

Ok I am not trying to irritate the league dudes. Just serving notice, that some of us just want to play. Sign on if you want to become part of the non-league. Remember people, being part of a non league means you are not in a league hehe.

Well turning FOW off sure makes a lot of them gambits hard to play now don't it hehe. But even still, in this particular game, I enjoy the lack of knowing where your stuff is. What's the point of using a computer, if you don't exploit its only true perk? When I first saw SC, I thought hey finally Third Reich on a computer blah blah blah. Ok it isn't Third Reich. But one of the problems of a board game is not having any way of surprising your opponent. If you think those gambits are annoying in SC, you haven't tried to break the perfect set up in Third Reich before. For instance, there just isn't any point to where you put your Poles on turn 1 in Third Reich. A skilled player is going to hit the capital on turn 1 and take it no matter what you do. There is only so much you can do with the counters, and the opponent can see the whole thing regardless. The only thing a German player needs to fear is a 2-1 on Warsaw going into a 1 to 1 counter attack that gets a defender eliminated (nasty things those results). I think turning off FOW would only interest are more jaded SC fanatics. No More Gambits and no more spiffy moves, they would have to start getting their game even more perfect.

Back sort of Hey Rambo, your post was appreciated. You know, you have been a royal pain in the butt in the past eh, but hmm anyone that can say such good things about Kelso can get some slack from me I guess. Consider this a blanket pardon for anything you have done that might have irked me in the past About SC taking to long though, man put down the slide rule, you are probably trying to hard. I like SC because it is a fast game to play. But then again, I played quite a few games before I even attempted to even figure out what Research did. Playing on dial up though, man my heart feels for ya man, I have braodband, it soaks up a lot of my next to nil pension, but it is my life blood. My system I guess would be best described as a superior P3 wanna be. I can't run Battlefield 1942 enough to make it worth loading it, but it will play any wargame worth buying from 2002 back. If you consider yourself a true Squad Leader type, then you need to have played Steel Panthers World at War via one of the Mega Campaigns sold from Matrix Games. The core game is a free download, but hey its a major download for dial up. Which means precisely nothing as I have routinely mailed what I call my Ultra Steel Panthers cd I make for those unfortunates stuck with dial up. You can look up that deal at Wargamer in their Steel Panthers forum if it intrigues you. http://www.wargamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7276 The game Cross of Iron you were checking is to be the major new experience for the Steel Panthers fan basically. Picture SC with everything everyone has ever asked for all wrapped up in one new game, and then assume there was oodles of new things that no one had even thought of to ask for. That will give you a perspective on what we Steel Panthers fans are waiting on hehe. By the way, I have had a hand in the creation of the 4th Mega Campaign, so I am fully aware of how cool it will be This die hard Squad Leader fanatic gives Steel Panthers a two thumbs up seal of approval. If you haven't played it, you have been ripping yourself off of one of the best wargaming deals out there. Lastly, you might want to come into Warfare HQ and check out the ASL forum. http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 It's wall to wall Squad Leader fans.