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stikkypixie

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Posts posted by stikkypixie

    Concerned about Urban Combat...

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    I don't see toggle buildings or toggle doors on the hotkey list, or are those suggested new features?

    Also, how do I preview orders?

    Finally, my waypoints can't really get much shorter, just across a street and into a building, or across a street, around a wall, and behind another building, etc.

    But the action spots are so far apart that I can't get troops to move to the particular spots I want them to.

    I guess most of you guys figured this stuff out with CMSF, but I've played very little till now, especially urban fights.

    You have to make sure there is a door. I have made this mistake many times, thinking that like in CMx1 I can enter a building from any side. But in the new game you can only enter buildings from certain sides.

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    Concerned about Urban Combat...

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    I'm still trying to get up to speed with CMx2, and played the Venafro scenario in CMFI for some urban combat. I play WeGo exclusively.

    So far it's not going well. I guess I have two main issues:

    1) When I try to have a unit enter a building, they seem to completely ignore windows and even sometimes doors, so to enter the building they will end up running out onto some side of the building where they are completely exposed to fire. Result: Lots of bodies.

    2) Same kind of issue with position behind walls, etc. The action spots do not allow very much finetuning with positioning, and if I try to put a team behind a wall or something, first they might take some crazy route to get there, and then the don't really position themselves the way I want. Results: Lots of bodies.

    Any tips for urban combat?

    Short movement orders and lots of waypoints. Also use the face command. And go slow (as in don't rush things, not the command "SLOW") :)

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    Christmas Bone

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    As a beta tester, I think SOMETHING should be done about this. I'd love to help, but I don't have time, what with all the East Front goodness I'm mired in! It is amazing...

    :) :) :)

    Ken out.

    You will end up in a gulag for this Ken, even if it's the last thing I do :D!

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    Christmas Bone

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    It's not about ability to understand and carry out orders, it's about getting sensible orders there, command and control. Commanding troops is difficult and time consuming, lest you want to end up with a "charge of the light brigade" type misunderstanding. More so with inexperienced troops with little room for improvisation in their heads. I can just point and click an out of command squad to give it a convoluted path across city streets to a faraway target and then take quarters in a specific building's second floor facing north-west, but in reality that wouldn't work too well without telepathy...

    I understand that, but the orders given in CM are more than orders coming from the top, they are also things troops would do without orders (the player wearing different hats and all that).

    I still feel it's not a big problem, because although you can give the same convoluted orders to conscripts and elite troops, the execution of these orders will be entirely different. Unless you are giving orders in a training scenario, the conscripts will stop following the orders on the first sign of trouble. The end result is that de facto you can only give the simplest of orders to them.

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    Christmas Bone

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    Stikkypixie,

    I do agree with you but I am thinking more of the feel than what is actually happening. I am thinking more of the ends and not the means. I still believe that conscript troops should not be able to act out complex orders and to do them instantaneously. Telling an elite unit to do something, they should do it. Telling a conscript unit to do it should take more time and should be simpler instructions. E.g. I do not think conscripts should be able to quick move as that is simulating fire and movement. Perhaps have them move or fire but not be able to do both. Being in C&C should alter this for the better assuming you have a competent commander.

    One idea would be to have a count of orders you can give a unit. E.g. You could give a conscript unit 2 orders (so they could run towards the nearest wall for cover or move towns a location and perhaps fire at that location) a in C&C would allow another order (+1 for a total of 3) elite units may have 6 and in C&C 7. So, this would allow for limited movement to save yourself but would only allow average to elite units to carry out some crazy commands.

    Yes, the Italians do feel different from other nations and I liked that there was some nationality distinction. Now we just need some experience/training distinction.

    I don't know, it sounds to me awfully forced. Unless you are fighting with civilians like me, conscripts should be able to handle all orders you give them if their morale permit it. After all they know how to handle a gun. Most orders consists of go there and shoot that anyway.

    What you should see is troops not doing anything unless they are not told to do so because of fear or inexperience. But you have that already in the game, my conscripts are cowering 90% of the time, so in my opinion the difference in training is definitely there.

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    Christmas Bone

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    I don't believe the things you listed are relevant to tactical rigidity. Tactical rigidity is more about not being allowed to change your overall plan if things go wrong. You are not allowed to retreat when attacks are going badly. You are not to tactically withdraw when defences are going badly.

    Ealy 1941 troops are inexperienced and won't make the right decisions but they will continue their attacks until called off or demoralized. They are do not require constant baby sitting, they won't crawl back to their commanders because they don't see them.

    If you want to "do" tactical rigidity, you're going to have to impose limitations on yourself and not on the game.

    sburke & MikeyD

    I was just using the 1941 Soviet troops as an example but you could easily say that about the newly minted 1945 German troops being thrown into the line.

    I am not sure how you would model tactical rigidity. The command delay was a means to an end but while not a perfect one, it did make you think about things more. I.e. Having reserves near the back of the map as your units in the thick of things would not react fast enough. Those 120 second command delays were a real headache to deal with.

    You do have options to model this type of rigidity

    1. Command Delays
    2. Removing allowable actions (e.g. no assault with green troops, just move or fast for conscripts)
    3. No splitting of squads
    4. Units always want to move towards commanders if out of command (now I am just throwing out some ideas)
    5. Conscript Units no longer show up if they are outside of command control (like in Iron mode but with the possibility of appearing again
    6. You can only provide orders for them once every two minutes instead of immediately (RT) or each minute (WEGO)

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    Christmas Bone

    in Combat Mission Red Thunder

    Posted

    Sburke,

    What Michael and I were referring to were the time delays that units with low training had to wait until they carried out your orders in CMBB - if you wanted a conscript tank going from a to b, then you have to wait 120 seconds before it will start to move - all very tactical.it made it feel as if you could not just order conscript/green troops around the board without consequences or delays.

    There were also tactical training seen in the early/mid German army where they had more initiative and soviet troops did not. We need something to mimic this feeling of less control as I would not like to see a soviet conscript tank outside of leader contact And without a radio moving with the same freedom as I would expect a late war t-85 with A veteran crew. It would not feel right. While the command delay was not perfect, it was better than nothing and right now we do not seem to have anything comparable.

    I recall Steve saying that BF did not like the command delay but they were looking into something else to provide the same feel of leading differently experienced troops.

    I don't know, German units with (how much more?) flexibility reacting instantly is just as unrealistic. In CMSF where the in the new game engine the NATO allies have vastly superior C2 compared to the relatively blind Syrians, the Syrians are at huge disadvantage and expect to see the same in new Russian game. Would be interesting to see what to decide to add on top of that though :)

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    Patch released!

    in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy

    Posted

    Yeah, part of the optimization was putting more load on "pre processing" end of things instead of "on the fly". Therefore, scenarios that have a ton of the stuff that's been newly optimized will load slower than before, but then run a ton faster when playing.

    In a VERY rough way you can think of it this way... the more the increase in load time, the bigger the increase in performance. I don't know how directly proportional they are, but one is definitely an indicator of the other.

    Yup, that's just the sort of thing I'd expect from an older save game. For Italy saved games especially. But good to know they are still playing well otherwise.

    The unfortunate reality of all software products. It never ceases to amaze me what some people DEMAND of a $55 short term entertainment product. And I don't even want to know what the programming budget was for that, nor what a bug could potential do in terms of putting people's lives at risk.

    Steve

    Hmm, I was hoping the load times would also be cut shorter. Oh well :)

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    Which way to the Hermann Goering Division-bitte ?

    in CM Fortress Italy Maps and Mods

    Posted

    I often wondered if BFC would open up the creation of 3D flavour objects to the community.

    I can very well understand that they don't for 'real' things like vehicles and such because that would create lots of gameplay problems (=support). But for flavour objects which are basically ghosts and ignored by the game engine... ?

    Flavour objects do block bullets though, so not entirely ignored.

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