Code13

Never mind Motor Cycle troops. What about Hungarian Bicycle Infantry?

I think overall, the sentiment should be that a lone tank is no match for a dug in ATG, but a well structured armoured advance, with heavy tanks in overwatch as lighter tanks advanced is going to have no trouble with ATG positions unless the ATG unit picks its moment very carefully. In all, restrict your ATG to firing at much closer range, and from the descriptions put an LMG with it as well to protect from infantry and to make the tank button up.

just to put this into context though. The British Army has always adopted the posture of its troops making aimed, accurate shots with its rifles, thats why it took so long to replace the Lee Enfield with a semi-auto rifle, and why it took so long to replace that with an automatic rifle. And as I have already said, the AK is not a rifle, but a machine gun capable of single shot fireing. This alone will make infantry trained in a culture of making the shot count dislike this weapon.

partly...though it was seperated by two sentences.

I guess its a case of every little helps. In WW1 the British Army didnt issue helmets until about 1916, the powers that be didnt think it would make much difference to survival. Once the Tommys had helmets their mortality rate dropped massivly. Given the choice between a small shield to stop shell splinters and small arms and having none at all, its a bit of a no brainer.

Just to add a bit of spin to this debate, but to compare the M16 and AKx is also a waste of time for another reason. They are two different weapons to start with. The M16 is a single shot rifle that CAN fire on full automatic and the AKx is a machine gun that CAN fire on single shot mode. A quibble in semantics perhaps but one that illustrates that they are different weapons that share a common ground. As for which is better, without a doubt the M16 is better engineered and more accurate, but that is all. The AKx is solid, reliable, accurate enough to do the task at hand. Given the choice of a weapon that will hit the target when it fires or a weapon that will fire every time, most infantrymen will choose the latter. (as a side note for all you M16 fans there is a similar debate in the British army, well the Para's and RM, over adopting the M16, because it is easier to maintain in the field than the SA80, despite the fact that the SA80 is more accurate, and better engineered)

I didnt think for a moment it was or you would want to, sorry if any offence has been caused.

Let me guess, it all went worng because she thought using the Big Cats was an exploit...

Wierd, personally I think the Soviet has the best equipment and the best look, and despite numbers, is really "doing it against the odds", out performed, out equiped and out led and yet they picked themselves up off the canvas and blew the swastica off the Reichstag. Besides, nothing is cooler than a dozen T34's charging across the steppes

It is about the cooler stuff, but perhaps in a less obvious way than we think. Most people play games to have fun, most people have fun by winning games without much thought. Axis forces tend to allow the victory with little effort - most of the time we dont see Soviet spearheads against weak German positions, but against mobile defences with a couple of King Tigers, half a dozen Panthers, often crack troops. Given that those big cats dont miss often and always kill when they hit, to a casual gamer it is much more fun to play that side than the one being torn apart at 2000 yards...

Sounds like a heating problem to me, Athlons do run hotter than Intel chips, and your board may be undercooled. Try opening up the case and just giving it a good clean to get rid of accumulated dust.

Hurray! Someone who agrees with me. I have long postulated that the Battle of Britain, and the cancellation of Operation Sealion by the Germans was the real turning point of the war. From that moment Germany had lost. Sure the events on the Eastern Front, the joining of the war by the US and the events in the Far East all shaped the speed and map of the world later, but in Europe, the moment Germany faield to stop Britain, they had lost the war. In Europe without the US intervention we would have had a map dominated by the Soviet Union who probably would have control of Europe all the way to France and the Low Countries In the Far East I suspect the British Empire would have collapsed far sooner than it did, with an eventual stalemate being reached with the Japanese (though the rise of Japanese economic and military power in the Pacific would have demanded the US entry into the war even without Pearl Harbour).

rofl Dont forget as well that later german dead horse armour was of poor quality and prone to flaking when hit by sticks. I have always found knackers teams to be quite effective at using small pointy sticks from close range though.

I tend to view these kind of assets in the same way as heavy MG's. They are mor use for long range supression and support fire/overwatch than at the point of the attack. Depending on the gun I tend to keep them a good few hundred meters behind the point of attack.

Tigers are expensive, thank god. But why do they seem to come free with two Panthers?

Well, it seems we are at opposed ends of how we view BB's like this. I view it as an online community where like minded people can get together, discuss things, ask questions, debate topics and generally engage in conversation about our hobby. You on the other hand think it is a library where all form of communication other than obsequious requests for information from our betters is forbidden. The question was: "Are Tigers an exploit". The answer is: "No". Well that was a pretty dull and pointless thread wasnt it, this thread however has been entertaining and ammusing; "Are Tigers and exploit?" "No, but here are some examples where I have had the snot kicked out of me by these devil tanks, curse them to hades."

I do indeed value information rather than just posting for the sake of it, however simply trawling through previous posts for information frequently leaves the person seeking information no better off. Searching for "Tiger" may well get 50 hits, but each of those hits will have been a different discussion to this one, with different information and different viewpoints. The whole point of a board and community like this one is to share knowledge, debate the points and generally engage with our fellow gamers. If and when you might go to a pub, bar or cafe with your friends do you tell them they cant talk about xy or z subject, but instead must refer to a previous conversation on the matter? This is a Forum not an encyclopedia.

Two from CMBO spring immediately to mind, both large points and maps. 1st is "All or Nothing" with the British making a dash for a town and rail head, they have plenty of forces, but have to cross a viaduct flank on to the German defenders, getting over that is no easy feat. 2nd is Advance with xxx Corps, dealing with the advance down the road to Arnhem, another massive adviace with layered german defences, great fun, even if I always seem to just run out of time before the final flag.

Trafling back through archives to find out if and when an old topic may or may not have been discussed is a complete an utter waste of time. I am not advocating the starting of multiple threads on the same topic, but if a particular topic isnt easily findable then chances are it was some time since it was last discussed, and on a DISCUSSION board it seems a bit counterproductive to try and stifle that discussion. I liked this thread, I had things to say (even if it was a petulant grumble at my latest game) but there is no way I would have trawled back throuh ancient threads on the offchance one was about the topic I wanted to pass a comment.

spoilsport

hehehe true enough. To be fair I have and had no issues with Tigers or King Tigers, I am just sulking at seeing all my vet crews massacred by two big cats :confused: Not stopped me trying though,

The point is (unless I am missing your irony - which I may well be) is that IRL flanking shots worked, but they just seem to bounce in CMBB... Well actually not always true, but the example I had was depressingly extreme.

yup, that was hte mission I was playing, thos damned Kats took out 12 T34's and 2 Is122's. I stayed mobile, gave them little chance to hit me, while pushing infantry forward, but those kats just never missed, one shot kill every fecking time and I couldnt touch them, I think I forced one Kat to abandon.

Mostly T34Ms but with a couple of T34/85s as well. The point is I wasnt trying to hit their front armour from 200m, I was shooting at flank and rear! I never expected to kill from the front

All well and good, but I very frustratingly had to face an uberkitty of the King Tiger variety, not good, since I was on attack (it was a campaign mission). So, Flank Shots are needed thinks I, the only way to do it is a good old T34 rush, no problem, the ground is good and I have a stack of them. So. 9 (count em) T34's of varying models hurtled forward, 8 of em got to the flanks, under 200m and surrounding these devil machines (they all had veteran or better crews as well) What happened I hear you ask. Well this ubercat just took everything those T34's had to offer, killing every single one of them one at a time as I looked on in disbelief as not a single penetrating hit got through from any angle (the KT never missed either! One shot kill every time!)