Dandelion

Easy and simple question this time - anyone know the organisation and roughly the TOE of a UK MG battalion, WWII? Anyone have any interesting other facts or anecdotes on these? Cheerio Dandelion

Yes quite, this is apparent. Morals are subject to windows of opportunity, always. I don't know what I would have done. I say what I guess everyone says - I hope I would have had the strength to do what I felt was right, or at the very least not do what I felt was wrong. But I'm not entirely convinced I would have. Fear is powerful, twists your mind. The note on the Wehrmacht as integral part of the state was adressed to our local Forum revisionist rather than you of course. Well, I guess my entire post was really, as I believe you already knew everything I wrote. I just needed a nice and civilised person to adress since I didn't want to be engaged in a conversation with that other person. Yes I know its a waste of time correcting him. Nazi's never listen. This is just therapy. Makes me feel I'm doing my bit for the postwar dream. Servus Dandelion

Hi all, I am following the discussion with great interest as I also want to know more about this. I will contribute what little I know here. Which isn't very much unfortunately. The top sections of the shield are foldable, they fold forward (and angled) and when folded they rest on the protruding thingies. I have seen this on a Museum example, which had one section (top left) folded down as demonstration, but I have never seen a contemporary photo with the crew actually doing this themselves. Though I have seen a photo of a captured 35/36 which had an entirely missing top left section. Other than that, even SPW mounted shields remain unfolded on photo's. The fact that they are foldable and rest on the "I" hinges as support doesn't per se mean that the "I" hinges weren't used to load munitions during movement I suppose, but I haven't encountered this information before. On some shields, those protruding "I" shaped thingies are not themselves foldable, as they very much seem to be on the shield on the picture here. The ones I saw were quite solid, triangular supports welded to the shield. Same function though. The top sections are fastened by, er, well hinges I guess I must call them too, those small round thingies that make the sections foldable forward (but not rearward), very visible on the photo. One could knock out the plug in those hinges, detaching the top section entirely. In a manner I never really understood, the detached top sections could be hung along the lower sections, creating in the words of the Museum plate a primitive version of the later standardised doubleplated shields (these appear on the Pak 40, maybe earlier?). It also said that the strange cut of the topside of the top sections was to accomodate this specific function. I noted it, but again I have never seen any photo of real crews doing this, and I never really understood where the sections were supposed to be hung, because all kinds of stuff seemed to be in the way. As usual there was nobody to ask, just a pile of equipment on a lawn. The shieldplate of the 35/36 is only 4mm thick so reinforcing it to 8mm would make a lot of sense if facing ranged 12.7mm fire. But it appears they never really did this, at least not during any photo opportunities. There are alternative designs to the shield. No idea if any is to be considered "original" or why other types appear (or how many of any - there were more than 15 000 of these barrels in service). But anyway, other versions I have seen (only photo's) have non-foldable top sections, but either easily detached top left sections, or a deep "U" shaped cut into it on the left (Richter/gunner) side. On some no peephole like the one Mr Denim is using on the photo here. Other countries using the Pak 35/36 had even more weird shield designs. Overall I really don't get it. Why fold forward like that at all? It appears not only to reduce cover (and profile of course but still), but provide an angled plate from which incoming small calibre fire could bounce in on the crew. And with so many, many guns in service, why no photo's of folded shields? A neat design that however proved quite useless? A design intended only for specific non-combat purpouses? Cheerio Dandelion

Joachim, You are right. The comment of "Schörner" - women were not allowed bla bla - is not the result of extensive research, it is instead a fairly common revisionist statement. The German armed forces of WWII made extensive use of women in a combat role. The vast majority of these girls were forced into service. Female military personnell entered service in the so called Arbeitsdienst (RAD) or in the Helferinnenkorps of the armed forces and SS. Women from both of these forces were pressed into combat duty as the war progressed closer to German soil, with the so called "Reichsverteidigungsgesetz". By the same law, children were used for combat service. Several tens of thousand of these women manned armed installations defending the Reich (primarily but not exclusively antiaircraft such), including mobile units, and about five hundred died as KIA. Several thousands "fought at the front", primarily in the east and in Berlin proper, but both British forces advancing on Hamburg and US forces advancing into Bayern encountered organised female combat units. There are no reliable statistics from this period of the war, total female casualty rates from ground unit combat are according to the trial documentation unknown. The (ab)use of female service personnel for combat duty met with very strong popular emotional rejection and left a permanent mark in the reconstruction of the German state. Thus in the foundation of said state, i.e our constitution, it was and is written on the topic of female citizens that [Art. 12a, Absatz 4 Satz 2]" Sie dürfen auf keinen Fall Dienst mit der Waffe leisten." (they are under no circumstances to do armed service). This little line was written precisely because of the Wehrmacht mass use of female soldiers. Thus in the Bundeswehr, there was intitially not a single armed woman. In 1975, the Bundeswehr allowed the arming of female personnell for self defence - i.e. medics, signallers, drives etc were given pistols and Uzi's. The result was a tremendous outcry and a heated public debate, but the Bundeswehr insisted. So they still carry guns. It was the subject of heated debate again in 2000, when female army personnell complained it had a discriminating effect on their careers that they could not take many of the (armed) courses necessary for advancement, and the law was tried in Strasbourg. It was found that the law may remain as is, but must be understood as concerning compulsory service only. Volounteers are allowed in today, and women again serve in combat units. There were no ethics in the wartime government and administration, morals had completely collapsed. There were no moral concerns about drafting women and children, no debate whatsoever. The Wehrmacht was a fully integrated part of the contemporary state. Acts of defiance (such as the many people, soldiers and civilians, helping girl-soldiers to desert) were individual acts. The Wehrmacht as such - the OKW, the generals - filed no protest or concern at all. They drafted, trained and armed the girls, and then sent them to combat. Most of the above requires no advanced research at all, as all of it is supposed to be taught in German public schools, topic constitution. For the interested, all affiliated documents are available for study and very easily accessible, you'll find all of it at a decent university library (at least with a faculty of Law). There are numerous publications commenting the constitution and all must mention the topic of female combat troops in WWII (in order to explain that line). As to female German snipers outside Germany, I have no sources mentioning any, but like you have already pointed out, there were approximately 2 000 000 armed females doing service in the Wehrmacht abroad in non-combat units, who were all liable to end up in combat at any time. Cheerio Dandelion

Ohoy there Duke, Regulation strength was five men for the PaK 35/36, as compared e.g. to PaK 38 crews of eight. Many divisions received only four men per Pak 35/36 crew anyway, especially motorised divisions. In addition there were platoon personnel not attached to any barrel but liable to be very close by. The 3.7cm munition weighed only 1,2 kg each, but the gun with shield weighed almost half a tonne. Although they dragged it rather than lifted it, it was still hard labour. The PaK 38 weighed almost a whole tonne (the 5cm munition weighed 13 or so kg's each as I recall it). There is a photo series on the Lexikon der Wehrmacht that I find very interesting. Seems to give a very good idea of how the crew behaved in various situations, and why so many were needed. The photo bottom right illustrates Sergei's post above very aptly. Cheerio Dandelion

Hans, Ok I'll speak slowly My suggestion for a smaller exclusively Norwegian vs. German battle has to be Gråbeinhölet. No Norwegian would ever forgive me if I didn't Context in brief The North-South pass leading up to Bergen was defended by lvbn/IR6 (the Landvern [Home Guard] battalion of the Vestoppland Regiment). This unit faced (German) IR 236 with several support units, pushing hard Northwards. After a rather successful delaying battle, the lvbn went over to defence in the cauldron valley (and community) of Bagn, south of Bergen. The Germans were unable to breach the defences, which were soon reinforced by IB4 (Infantry Brigade 4 - also called the Valdres Group) under Colonel Gudbrand Östbye. IB 4 consisted of II/IR9 (2nd Bn of the Hordaland Rgt), I and II/IR10 (1st and 2nd Bn of the Fjordane Regiment). These were Vestlanders. Eventually it also included II/4, who were from Romerike. Altogether about 3500 men. The brigade was actually ordered (by Ruge, who was a General, not a Colonel as I see I wrote in a former post) to Östlandet in order to outflank the Germans in Gudbrandsdalen, and thus considered themselves to be held up at Bagn. They were not defensively minded. In order to force the pass the Germans sent a company (6./IR 236) to flank the Norwegians, climbing over a steep, densely forested ridge. Snow was rather deep up there. In order to throw the Germans back, the Norwegians did the exact same thing. The company sent is curiously unidentified in the sources I have. The men were from Sogn and so it must have been a company of either I or II/IR 10. But no idea which one, and what number. Company commander was Captain Fredrik W Rieber-Mohn. A solicitor in civilian life and an officer in the reserve, he was of jewish faith and was eventually murdered in the KZ Natzweiler in 1944. The battle of Gråbeinhölet Both companies climbed the steep and forested ridge but the more terrain-skilled Norwegians made far better speed, thus the clash took place with the Germans generally fighting uphill. Nonetheless, the Germans had significantly higher firepower, the Norwegians had no handgrenades at all and only two Madsens (think - Bren). The Germans made three determined assaults but were soundly beaten back. Eventually the dazed survivors retreated some 100 meters to a mountain farm (Bagnsbergenegård - with 19 civilians in it), carrying many wounded. Here they were soon attacked by the pursuing Norwegians. After a final, rather ferocious battle, the 6./IR 236 was destroyed, all men either dead or captured. The commander, who's name I cannot immediately recall, fell. Cpt Rieber-Mohn continued with his orders and flanked the mainforce IR 236 in Bagnsgryta, which had to withdraw. Precious time was gained, alas to no avail as these events took place in the span of 18th-27th april. Norwegian forces in South Norway laid down their arms on April 30th. In the Bagn fighting as a whole the IR 236 lost 157 killed and 458 wounded or missing, to which must be added Germans of other units taking part (there is no separate list for those). The Norwegians lost 47 killed and 237 wounded. A remarkable action in many ways. In fact, another great smallish battle - my opinion - would be the very first German attempt to force Bagnsgryta, then defended only by smaller elements of the lvbn. The Germans advanced with two companies, normal mortar support and three tanks (I and II), but were beaten back. The Panzers were damaged by mortars and scared by intense lmg's mainly. There were of course hard fought actions for the Germans against exclusively Norwegian forces at Dombås (your Dombass, right? - I think the English transcription would be Dombaas), Rena and Vinjesvinger as well. Sure I'll be a consultant, just say the word. Don't forget Duke there tho, he's the one close to the relevant archives if we hit blind spots in our sources. Leaving out northern Norway in the campaign? Guess that narrows things down to more manageable size. Cheerio Dandlion

Varsågod Hans. Duke, my family is multilingual/ethnical and sort of spread over Germany-Sweden-Norway, and I've been hearing all three languages spoken in my home since childhood. I imagine myself fluent in all of them. But please don't test me in public The Norwegian branch, though extinct since 1997 actually, lived in the Halden/Berg area. I still have friends there, and more distant relations. I have no problem with written Norwegian but I do have problems understanding several of the spoken dialects, e.g. the Bergenese. Cheerio Dandelion

Duke Wrote that from the top of my head actually. But ab ovo - Short answer is no, I don't know any English books on Weserübung from a German perspective. I am not all that proficient in English and feel safer researching German or Scandinavian texts. Thus there might well be very good books in English, I just haven't looked for any. I got almost all of what I wrote above from Norwegian sources The rump of it from German such of course. You as a Norwegian really don't need English books to study Weserübung, even from a German perspective. In terms of details, you have all you need lying at your feet. Oceans of details. Want to know how many 6.5 cartridges the defenders of Fornebu had? The names and birthplaces of the machinegunners? Easily researched at the Norska Riksarkivet. As research material of course, but also to a large extent in the convenient shape of already written reports. This includes - to lead us in on your initial question, that of my sources - two official reports on the Midtskogen fight alone, and one of these is written by Spillers killer Lt Jektvik himself (not dated; the larger report is from 78). Both titles contains the name Midtskogen and are easily found. I found them There were several other highly detailed reports on smaller actions. E.g. I recall a series of reports concerning the airfields as such, and defense of the same, which I also read (but only the volume about Fornebu). It contained data on allotment of 6.5mm cartridges for the Madsens. Rate of spending too I believe. Logs of Captain Munthe Dahl etc. Rather serious stuff all of it really. I read these in 96, and the same year I was at the Midtskogsgård Museum, where I bought a booklet no longer in my possession, but which was published as I recall it by the army, also covering the events (nice illustrations but poorly written). Riksarkivet has a good compilation about Spillers activities too, as I described them above (Spillers name in the title, I haven't noted any publication year, maybe undated). But there is a better one in the B.A. that even mentions what food was served in operation Abendessen (Spiller wanted his costs covered you see). This is not a report but a logged correspondence, thus research material. The correspondence between the Berlin and the German embassy in Olso is published too, and there are passuses that concern Spiller in it. I don't have that at home either tho. The B.A. is the German national archive. One can find all one needs there if researching the German perspective. Including Weserübung details and analysis. As you speak Norwegian, you will no doubt manage to work your way through a German text even with zero studies in German. But I realise that it might not be very convenient to travel to Germany just to read a few documents. On Spiller in particular there is also a private diary, namely that of Ursula, which by strange fate I came across. But, generally, are you interested in modern military history, and one of those people who are frustrated, waiting for the publishing of quality books on the topics you are interested in, but these never seem to materialise? Then your discovery of national archives - treasure vaults of grognards - will be a religious experience. Suddenly, everything becomes so... wonderful. (I am not being ironic) Happy hunting Dandelion PS. In Sweden and Finland, the military sits on h-i-g-h-l-y interesting libraries of their own. Might be the same in Norway?

Hans Yes, elements of 1./HMKG were present and löytnant Jektvik was an officer of this company. Midtskogen is part of the HMKG battle honours and thus "their" battle as far as the Norwegians are concerned. The troop at the roadblock contained elements of other units, who were recently mobilised men from Elverum, probably from all kinds of units (I've never seen any specific reference). I've always assumed that the often mentioned 20 untrained men were these "other unit" men. But I have no source on it, it just seems logical to me. The 1./HMKG was not untrained like that (though they were conscript and pretty much raw recruits, they did have basic training). The roadblock was errected in the heart of the mobilisation area of 2nd (Oslo) Division (of which the HMKG was part btw). All mobilisation centers will have been chaotic and crowded by this time. Elverum and Hamar had at least one - presumably several - such centers each. Under supervision of Colonel Ruge (et al) men were formed and sent off to man defenses, some in regular units and others quite ad-hoc. The HMKG (most of it) escorted the royal family to Elverum and was immediately pressed into local service, employed in the boosting and organising of the defenses around Elverum proper. Poles, yes, good idea. You can always change all names into typical Norwegian such to add feel. Let me know when the scenario is released. And Wisbech - Erika was 3 years old in 1939. Lets count together from there. She's still a stunner though. Cheerio Dandelion

Hans, Ah, we are reaching into depths of obscurity that sparkles an interest in me.. Allow me to tell a story. Settle down around the fire kids, as this one will take a while. Hauptmann Eberhard Spiller of the Luftwaffe (age 34) was stationed officially as airforce attaché at the German embassy in Oslo. He arrived there with his beautiful wife Ursula (age 27) and two kids (Erika, 4, and Hans-Jürgen, 3) in october 1939. The handsome airman was in fact an agent, specially attached to the forming airborne raid detachments (i.e. the paras). His former station was London. At the outbreak of war he was temporarily transfered to the Netherlands (guess why), but soon returned to Olso. End of february 1940 he was called to Berlin to receive his orders, among which were a complete report on the Norwegian airforces (they had two you know) and airfields (civlian and military) with defensive installations. In the next weeks he travelled all over Norway from Oslo to Narvik, collecting data. He was of course especially familiar with Fornebu airport, close to his flat in Oslo. The Norwegians liked him, as he was a very pleasant and social type, as agents tend to be perhaps. At the time, only three people at the German embassy knew about the planning of Weserübung, and what Spiller was up to. His wife knew nothing. Spiller was also tasked with the mapping of the Norwegian government and, in particular, the head of state (i.e. the King). To this end he held a number of receptions, the largest of which hosted over 200 high ranking officials. One of these dinners was the amply named operation "Abendessen". Several ranking Norwegian officials were invited to dinner at the Spillers on the evening of april 8th. Just before the guests arrived Spiller reported to Berlin that Fornebu airport has six fighterplanes on alert. He was instructed to arrive at Fornebu at 0515 to aid the first landing German paras. He was also told that German ships will be arriving in Oslo at 0415. He then turned to his guests, among whom were four officers of the German (civilian) Lufthansa - actually Luftwaffe officers. The dinner ended at around midnight, with the Norwegian guests leaving, rather drunk, but the Germans remaining. At around 3 am two cars with five men left Oslo, all dressed in civilian clothes (Spiller had a uniform underneath his coat). They stopped at a small house near Fornebu airport, from where they could see the events taking place. There was no paradrop (4./FJR 1 was supposed to have taken the field by air assault, but the drop was aborted and this company ended up in Denmark instead - the Norwegian sky was full of Norwegian fighters) and Spiller had to wait until 0830 until the first German aircraft landed under chaotic circumstances (Ju 52s that had run out of gas and had to land, the (infantry)men sticking weapons out of the windows to shoot their way down). At the sight, Spiller acted according to his orders. Taking the group of agents, the two cars speeded up to the airport (the Norwegians didn't fire at him for reasons unexplained) and collected 21 rather dazzled infantrymen (he was supposed to have met up with paras from 4th coy, we will remember). He hijacked two Norwegian army trucks (fighting was still going on at the airfield at this time) and mounted machineguns on them, and the group of vehicles speeded to Spillers special target - the royal castle. They found the royal family evacuated, and Spiller for once lost his manners, white with rage. He had failed. What he did not know then was that the special raid detachment - also paras - assigned to the capture of the Norwegian government had been wiped out. They had travelled with the Blücher and were, as they say, sleeping with the fishes. Spiller returned alone to his flat, and then at around 1500 hours went to the German embassy (where he was told about the raid detachment). Spiller was still obsessed with his mission and nags at dr. Bräuer until he manages to commandeer a company of paras (namely 2./FJR 1, which had airlanded on Fornebu along with 1./FJR 1 and was actually tasked with other assignments). Well informed and connected, Spiller knew exactly where he was to head - Hamar. He had adopted the task of capturing the Norwegian government as well, since they were travelling with the king anyway. At 1700 hours the company heads off, using four buses (hijacked from Oslos public transport), one Norwegian army truck and Spillers private car. They arrive to Hamar only to find out (in ways unknown, but Spiller was well connected) the royal family had headed on to Elverum, and so they followed. At exactly 0133, they run straight into the roadblock at Midtskogen. The "battlefield" was situated at the heart of the area of mobilisation of the 2nd (Olso) Division. There was only one road between Hamar and Elverum, and it ran through a narrow, very heavily forested valley (still does). By order of Colonel Ruge, Colonel Olof Helset had organised a small party (most sources say 90 men) of raw recruits to set up a roadblock in Midtskogen, near the small community by the same name. They had rifles and possibly lmg(s). It would very effectively cut the valley off, and thus protect Elverum. Some of these conscripts (20 are mentioned) had had only 10 minutes military training - loading a rifle. Nonetheless, the Norwegians were by then aware of the rapid German thrusts right into their mobilisation areas, knocking out large masses of totally disorganised conscripts. The roadblock was a countermeasure against such coups. It had nothing to do with the King. When the cars and buses approached at rapid speed in the dead of night, the Norwegians opened fire. As far as is known, the fire only caused one casualty, the driver of the forwardmost vehicle - Spiller (since he is the only one who knew the way - or even where they were). He was shot in the chest, a hit normally attributed to Lieutenant Harald Jektvik (God knows how they could tell). The Paras immediately de-bus, there is exchange of fire, but in the darkness both forces panic and withdraw, fading into the forest. Spiller was taken to Hamar hospital, but his life could not be saved. He died on April 10th, 12:30. He was buried with all honours, an airforce funeral visited by an unusual number of navy officers, i.e. people from the German military intelligence. His wife Ursula married the naval attaché instead, in 1947, and lived happily until he died in 1966, maybe even after. She died in 1989. The strikingly beautiful daughter Erika lives in Paris, and last I heard of the son, he lived in Boston, USA. I doubt anyone ever made a tactical map of this incident. But there is a little stone to be seen. Here on this web page. There used to be a museum close by, but there isn't anymore. The Museum contained all kinds of facts surrounding this incident. Most of all though it focused on the Elverumfullmakt, but lets not get into that. Don´t know where the Museum is relocated. The forest in question here lies between Hamar and Elverum and ought to be quite intact, it is still a very sparsely populated area. Its quite easy to order a 1:50 000 map of the forest from the Kommun (Elverum or Hamar, but even tiny Midstskogen has a site these days). Costs are negligeble (I hate spelling that word). I have a tactical German map (photocopy) of the area. Sadly its too faded to be of any use here. Can't make out any Midtskogen on it. But that's about it, in my files. But you know, any road in a narrow, heavily pineforested valley will look very credible. Just put up to markers "To Elverum" and "To Hamar" at each end and everyone will believe you've used an aerial recce shot. It all looks much the same. Its a very beautiful tract. Kofi Anan likes to wander there. Makes for a wonderful "what-if" scenario. If the paras had not panicked they might have reached Elverum where the King and the entire Norwegian Nygaardsvold government and the Storting president Hambro were. Ok so it wouldn't have altered the course of world history, but still. So. How were you planning on doing the Norwegians? As Brits? Cheerio Dandelion

Nah I never got that, they didn't think it worth it in my case, they only do that with interesting or good looking people. Not Germans. Still, sure hoping it'll be worth the wait. Been nagging about my CMBO MG fix for years. That and some optics was all I ever wanted. Incoming... Cheers Dandy

Oi! How did you get out of the CMBO forum?! </font>

Well. Had I been Mussoulini in 1940. Hindsight. Hm. My conclusive act of aggression would be reinstalling the lawful Republic in Spain by force of arms. I'd do that while the WA and TR were quite busy wrestling in France. But then I think I would have started with the withdrawal of fascist troops and deathsquads from Albania, Ethipia, Libya and the Dodecanaeds. Then I'd hold a speech, in which I'd ask, among many other things, "Hannah, Hannah can you hear me?" After which I would finally get to take off that embarassing uniform, and get myself a slick Italian suit instead. Then I'd dismantle the corporate fascist state and reintroduce independent courts and lawful democratic government in Italy. Why not a Republic? I would send several love letters to Greece. Not necessarily the king or the totalitarian régime of the same, but to other, more popular representatives of that nation. Then I'd set up a tribunal for the trial of me and my fascist buddies for crimes against humanity, specifically Spanish, Libyan, Ethiopian and Italian such. With judges from all said nations. Italy? well she could do the Swedish walz, just lean back and shake her head at the sad European social tradition of regularly recurring mass slaughter - and build a modern welfare state from the considerable buck that is inevitably to be made from a global war if one is not destroyed in it. Myself I guess I'd hang myself, and thus make very sure I'd never get a daughter who'd go into politics. Yup, that's about it I think. The new government would have to clean up the rest. How much can one man do anyway. Cheerio Dandelion

Sure Fly, I believe you. I'm innocent too. We all are. It's all a big mistake. Care to share some from the contents? Cheerio Dandelion

Right. Here we are then. Four years in the comfy CMBO Pen and now I get transferred. No point in asking what I did. Reasonably cool place this. Does have a certain... rural charm to it. Of course it's not CMBO Block. No venerable age, no dignity and no style. But rustique is ok... works for me. Same inmates shaking the bars around here I see. Hey there's Balaban! Look at that inmate number! I always thought he was just a rumor they used to scare us straight. I bet I'd get a fortune selling him to a Museum! Err, ok, no need to look at me like that, I'm moving right along here, be out of your way before you know it, I know Lifers have nothing to lose anymore. Gee, what a crew. Never knew what you did time for Mike T, but I guess it must have been really bad seeing as you've really been around. Not as long as Emry's though. Now what's a nice guy like him doing with guys like us anyway? Can't they see successful rehabilitation when it's looking at them? What do you mean he's actually the warden who owns the place? Right. Good thing I walked the line there commenting him then. Ah, Mr Dorosh, now you really should be in here, they made no mistake there, you'll never quit the pipes that's for sure. Guys like you never do. Same goes for you Firefly, you'll never get off those wargame books and you know it. And of course Lee you old thread pirate, I knew they'd get you in the end. They always do. Look at MB. Hid in a corner and didn't say squat in four years, still they got him. Ah well, guess I'd better get comfortable then. I'll not be leaving here in a hurry. There's this huge Mad guy by the door, and outside the window there's just a caul, caul Moon looking down on me. Sauerkraut, anyone? It's freshly cooked... Cheerio Dandelion

Roosevelt furiously assaulted Omaha beach in his DD wheelchair. Twice. In battle lust, He ate four Germans and a battallion of Armenian volounteer veterinaries. Contrary to popular belief, he later apologised about the Armenians. Churchill of course outdid him on every count, hurling Molotov cocktails across the Channel using emtpied Whisky bottles, knocking out a German airfield, armoured train and four obscure Irish poets. That's not mentioning how Stalin used to roam the frontline at nights all through 42 and 43 and strangle every Pommeranian soldier he found. To this day, it is not known why he hated Pommeranians so, but apparently it had something to do with his sister. The prize winner will however have to be the Japanese emperor, who tried to murder himself savagely every fortnight, for reasons known only to the Japanese. Cheerio Dandelion

That actually is a very nice screenshot. The image seems to have a whole new depth. Is it the improved background bmp's that does it? Or bigger map? Or am I just imagining? Regards Dandelion

That's evil. I played SL and then ASL for well over fifteen years, and none of us ever came to think of flailing eachother. But I guess they would have solved it like any OVR attack right? ASL has that virtue and curse. Very flexible game, you can do almost anything you want, but it takes hours just checking the rules. Should be possible to keep the virtues while hiding the numbercrunching in a PC game methinks, shouldn't it? Of course, I'm no programmer. Cheerio Dandelion

Motorcycles were actually used in quantities by German forces late in the war, if by this we mean 1944. Speaking combat units, they were used primarily as replacement for authorised vehicles in recon units, in particular armoured recon units. The Kübelwagen and Schwimmwagen was used in the same manner - i.e. to replace the authorised SPW and PSW that they were actually supposed to be issued, but weren't. One can find whole (recon) companies equipped with m/c's in the Normandy battles. Having said that, I still agree with the people above. They weren't combat vehicles, anymore than bicycles or horses, also employed in large numbers by the German army. And like Stumpff writes, M/C's were left camouflaged well to the rear (just like trucks), the men marching on foot to the front. There are exceptions of course, like the attack of 12.SS-P.D. on june 8th I believe, where recon troops rode on motorbikes in a night attack on a Canadian position, escorting Panthers. Turned out to be a really bad idea though and they didn't do it again. Of course, the more the merrier obviously. Nobody would feel very disappointed about seeing a lot more 3D models in the game. But as it was, possibilities were starkly limited when CMBO was created. I bet they'll have the BMW's for us in CMII. Cheerio Dandelion

...and note the armour of PzKpfw VIB. Cheerio Dandelion

Regiments, Michael, regiments. Michael </font>

Just to increase the fun, I claim it is actually "Flugabwehrkanone", if it is the official "Flak" term used for the barrels which is intended. "Flug" is the prefix of things flying, like "Flugzeug" ("flightcraft"). In English, you use 'air' in this role instead, 'air' and 'aircraft'. So the non-literal but perhaps most accurate translation of "Flugabwehrkanone" would be 'airdefence cannon'. "Flugzeugabwehr" ("Aircraftdefence") sounds like something on board an aircraft to protect it, like the Bordwaffen. When grouped in units, at least the Army normally called them Fla. No need for the k at unit level. But as we know the Germans used Flak as quite a general term for air defence also. In such a context I am sure "Fliegerabwehr" could well be the intended words. The term "Fliegerabwehr" was otherwise TMHK used in a tactical context. For instance, the Ia was responsible for planning the "Fliegerabwehr" of his Division. Certain patterns of March formation for units were called "Fliegerabwehr" (because they were designed primarily for defence against roving aircraft). I also imagine it was the normal spoken word, as the normal army word for aircraft was "Flieger", if not more specific ("Jäger", "Jabo" etc). "Flugabwehr" was (and is I believe) otherwise the normal collective term for ground based anti aircraft systems of all sorts. "Luftwehr" (literally 'Airdefence') was (and is I believe) used as term for the strategic defence of airspace and inclusive of friendly aircraft units as part of it. I don't think the contemporary German was very careful about using these terms correctly. Just as long as his listener understood what he meant. No source stating it was so, its just a feeling I get. Cheerio Dandelion

"Indeed, they do appear to be crossed on your's and other Americans' behalf." - Actually I am German. But, for the purpouses of this debate, you may consider me roughly the equivalent of an American. "Appears to me that you are being sloppy in your terminology." - I can only humbly apologise for my inconsiderate disturbing of your personal sense of order. I know how important order is to many people, and how tormented such people become when others do not observe their rules. There was no offence intended, I simply quested for elusive facts. "I also pointed out that [---] in the wider Pacific War, half-tracks were rare outside of the US Army or Marine Corps." - Very good, perhaps you can forward Mike and the rest of us to any source or the like where he and we Americans can more closely examine facts of rarity of halftracks? That's the sole objective of the exercise, we will recall. "Dandelion, "abusive tone" is, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder in a written forum. You percieve it as "abusive", I percieve it as terse and informative. - I see. A clash of cultures then. In Australia people like you are called terse and informative. D

Private Wires seem crossed, let me try and help. I think Mike wants to know if UK/CW troops used halftracks anywhere at all in what you call "the pacific war" and he and I and apparently a number of Americans somewhere call "PTO". With "troops" I think both he and Michael means people serving in the armed forces of UK/CW, i.e. any type, branch, number, colour, gender and size of military personnell of any political entity normally among those intended with the abbreviation UK/CW. So if your ambition actually was to answer the oiriginal question you're cue is already due. Did they? If you never had this ambition, then please continue with whatever it was you were writing. PS. If you enjoy this forum and the debates in it, you might want to consider not using an unprovoked abusive tone towards people, like you did to Michael above. A convoy moves by the speed of it's slowest ship and soon enough we'll all degrade to behaving as ugly as you just did. And the forum will loose it's quality, it's flavour and interest, and utlimately will die down. You don't want that, do you? I know I don't. Dandelion

Oh no worries, you're on the right track there. Whenever in these situations, I reason that one 1.000.000£ note and a million 1£ notes is exactly the same value in the end. I've looked at paintings of Casanova's mistresses. He obviously went with the 1£ alternative too. So it's evidently a winner's choice of modus operandi. Just put a little efort in it and - Bob's your uncle - you will have accumulated the woman of your dreams. Cheerio Dandelion