[Divisional TOE's]

Thanks Sergei- great stuff,

especially the Detailed

Composition...

Send in the Political Section!

[Divisional TOE's]

Also, don't forget the obvious

fact that formations are hardly

ever at their paper strength;

and definitely won't be after

a few weeks of PBEM...

Perhaps it comes down to what

people think is a feasible force

size for a player, and for a 4 sq

km map...

Time and again one reads of enormous

concentrations of men and vehicles

battling in quite small areas...

[Divisional TOE's]

Just because we can, how many

players would be needed, do

you think, to handle a Division?

I would guess it could be done

with about... six????

1 Divisional Commander

4 Battlegroup Commanders

1 Support commander

Personally, I rather like the idea

of having to depend on the whims of

the Div commander..."I do not reward

failure" etc etc... for your share

(or more)of Divisional assets...

BTW, please post useful links to TOE

info if you have them; I am especially

interested in Soviet Winter War and

early E.Front organisations...

pref in english, but any appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt

[Divisional TOE's]

"So, for tanks, your core unit is a tank battalion"

oops...sorry.

If that was the case it's more like

21 x T-34

SMG Coy

Recon Plt

Motor Inf Coy

SU-76 Plt

SU-100 Plt

SU-152 Plt

2 x 76mm ATG

2 x 45mm ATG

and so on...

probably a much more workable force

to actually battle with on a 2km x 2km map...

[Divisional TOE's]

So a possible Sov battlegroup

might be:

1 x Tank Brigade

65 x T-34/85

1 x SMG Bn

6 x ATR teams

1 x Motor Inf Bn

1 x Armored Recon Coy

1 x SU-76 Coy (7)

1 x SU-100 Coy (7)

1 x SU-152 Coy (7)

2 x Zis-3 76mm ATG battery (8)

1 x 45mm ATG battery (4)

with maybe 8 120mm mortar tubes in

direct support, and 16 more on call...

possible reinforcements might include

IS-2's from the Corps' Heavy Tank Regt,

and/or BM-13 rocket support, as well as

Sturmoviks...success might be rewarded

with more Motor Inf, to hold newly taken

ground...

[Divisional TOE's]

Thanks, Steiner14...

Did a little looking myself; it's

amazing to consider the power of these

sizes of formations.

SOVIET TANK CORPS LATE 1944

***HQ***

195 T-34/85 in 3 Brigades each of 65 tanks

21 IS-2 (Heavy Tank Regt)

21 SU-76 (Light SP Arty Regt)

21 SU-100 (Med SP Arty Regt)

21 SU-152 (Hvy SP Arty Regt)

24 Zis-3 76mm ATG (AT Regt)

12 45mm ATG (AT Bn)

24 120mm hvy mortars (Hvy Mortar Regt)

8 BM-13 Katyusha (Rocket Bn)

3 Motor Inf Bn (Motor Inf Bde)

3 SMG Bn (with Tank Brigades)

1 Pioneer Bn

1 Armored Recon Bn (BA-64, M3 Scout)

1 Signals Bn

18 ATR (in Tank Brigades)

18 37mm AA guns (in AA Regt)

plus Service troops...

and about 300 trucks & 8 tractors...

I'd like to see my Guards Tank

Corps vs your Panzer Division

(source: Andrew Mollo and

Steven Zaloga)

[Divisional TOE's]

First, just like everyone else,

I'd like to say "wow" and "thanks"...

Second, I guess it's time to get familiar

with Divisions...what they have and what

they can do...

I have played with 3 Battalions a side

in CMBB Ops...but 3 Bns do not a Regiment

make...

If those out there who have studied the

Eastern Front at an operational/strategic

level could post some useful info & links,

especially divisional TOE's, I'm sure this

would be appreciated...

At least by me

Thanks in anticipation,

Matt

[Map Cheats & Bugs]

Thanks Zalgiris and Phillipe...

"I don't know about any others for

the Russians though"

The Sov 76mm & 85mm AA guns fit this

bill...transport class 9...there is

no Sov vehicle that can move these

anyway...(where is the Stalinetz tractor?)

Here's one I just figured out:

AP mines in a deep ford...

[Map Cheats & Bugs]

Thanks, Emar...

I was aware of that problem, and for that

reason, the Soviet side will have to be

human-played only...subject to rules about

moving said vehicles...

My real concern is that some of these map

cheats make make the game unstable...

Don't want to spend 300 hrs on something

that don't work...

[A WW2 fan's guide to the CM:SF setting]

"Who the hell came up with those definitions?"

Heh...I knew that would spark

controversy...

the WRG guys have done a LOT of research...

and their troop classification carries the

following rider...

"...these govern the[tactical]modes that

can be used and the reaction of the troops

to enemy fire and assault...They are

primarily based on combat performance

since WW2, reflect selection, training and leadership practice during the period

coverd, and do not impute a lack of bravery

or intelligence to any nation."

"For example,US Army infantry get a lower

grade of recruits than other arms, depend excessively on fire support instead of

using fire & movement, and lack the morale advantages of a traditional regimental system"

-This is from the 1993 edition of these rules...

Definitely an enjoyable debate

[A WW2 fan's guide to the CM:SF setting]

Just a thought for those wishing

to quickly acquaint themselves

with 'modern era' warfare...

The Wargames Research Group (WRG)

publishes two excellent sets of

rules for "all-arms land warfare

from platoon to battalion level"

-one set covers 1925-1950, the second

(perhaps updated by now?) covers 1950-

2000. The modern set is used as a training

aid by various militaries.

Note that both sets use the same game

system in every respect...the 1950-2000

set introduces helicopters, ATGM,

various types of imaging, specialized

munitions etc etc...

These rules are very close to the CM

'philosophy'-the emphasis being on c&c

and what troops actually do in RL as

opposed to theoretical models...

I've found them very useful in gaining

an understanding of the evolution of

weapons systems and tactics...

Note that in these rules, troops are

classified as INEPT, GREEN, STUBBORN,

DASHING, SKILLED, THRUSTING, FANATIC,

and IRREGULAR.

'Stubborn troops are adequately trained

in a limited range of battle skills, and

emphasise obedience to orders and tolerance

of losses...they include Soviet tank or motor

rifle, US Special Forces and Rangers, Iraqi

Republican Guard and SYRIANS...'

'Green troops have basic training not emphas-

ising fire & movement and reasonable morale...

they are easily pinned by fire...they include

US Army Infantry and most Israeli infantry

and Iraqi regulars...'

'Skilled troops are tough, well-trained and emphasise the fire in "fire & movement"...

they include US Armored Cavalry...'

'Thrusting troops are also well-trained, but

emphasise the movement in "fire & movement"...

they include US Armor, USMC, Spetznaz and

Russian Air Assault..' (

'Irregulars rely on natural talent instead

of formal training and have high but brittle morale...include most mujahadeen, Palestinians, and similar insurgents...'

Anyway...worth a look...

cheers,

matt

[A WW2 fan's guide to the CM:SF setting]

Will there be livestock?

I wish to scatter goats...

I have played both WW2 and Modern

eras (using microarmor and sand

tables)and I think we're all in

for a treat: I also think that

modern weapons systems and tactics

will be less of a shock to good CM

players than some people think...

We can look forward to:

Helicopters...much more vulnerable

than popularly supposed, they can

still be very effective if used

properly...

New infantry types, both squads and teams,

some with very powerful weapons...

A great variety of artillery- and air-

delivered ordnance...

Fighting in dust, smoke, or at night,

and still being able to see...

etc etc etc

Looking forward to it...

in the meantime we can talk Modern...

[Map Cheats & Bugs]

Hello all;

I'm currently working on

a CMBB Op that involves the

breaking of the Luga Line.

To simulate the Russian strong-

points, I've been employing a

few time-honoured map cheats.

I'm concerned that these may cause

problems when playing...

Can anyone tell me if these are

likely to lead to buggy behavior:

*tank inside building

*trench inside building

*immobile AA gun in building.

*pillbox inside building

*mines or wire inside building

Any advice appreciated, and fortif-

cation ideas gratefully accepted...

thanks, Matt

[General discussion about CM:SF]

I'm as pleased as Punch;

With CMBB, I finally got the

Eastern Front game that I'd

been waiting years for...

CM:SF sounds like the Modern

Era game I've been waiting

years for...

I'll be playing both for years

to come, I have no doubt...

ATGMs! Helos! 12 flavours of MRE!

[Early War Night-Fighting]

Thank you very much, no_one...

Reading it now...

[Early War Night-Fighting]

Anyone knowledgeable in this area?

I am currently playing an early-war

Op (set in July,'41, the crossing of

the Berezina by 18th PD) in which the

Night battles are just resupply and

repositioning turns-no fighting is

allowed.

The design notes state that "neither

side had yet mastered it [nightfighting]".

What do you guys think? I have done

some reading on this topic but haven't

come to a definite conclusion either

way.

I am currently working on a large Op

inspired by the battles around Novgorod

and Staraya Russa (August 1941) and am

wondering about the night-fighting

settings that would be most realistic.

The Germans in this Op project are Panzer

troops, and the bulk of the Soviets

are Conscripts...is being a Conscript

itself a sufficient handicap in night-

fighting, or should I bar them from it?

Any informed opinions welcomed...

Thanks,

Matt

[Mortors and HQ units]

It IS a really newb question and

we have all asked it in our turn

The answer is:

the mortars must be under

the command of a spotting HQ.

The LOS must be from the HQ to

the desired target, and the red

command line must link the HQ and

the mortar/s

HQ's with command bonus is what you

want, and you can keep your mortars

out of sight. I believe that a combat

bonus will make the mortars he spots

for more accurate...possibly.

To clarify: you measure your LOS from

the HQ (give him a small firing arc

to stop him giving himself away)...

when you want to fire, select the

mortar/s and, using 'T' you will find

that they can only fire at what the

HQ has LOS to...

enjoy...

[Help: Planes]

"Aircraft are a roving menace in CM,,, "

Well put

I would add that they just

LOVE trucks...

...conceal your armour

as best as possible (e.g

placing it among trees or

buildings)...but leave a

truck or two out for bait...

(rationalize this by telling

yourself that the crew have

been replaced by crude dummies...)

[Place your bets on the Front]

In reference to the movie Kelly's Heroes,

Dillweed wrote:

"You know, that isn't a bad idea for an operation"

In fact, somebody out there made such an Op

for CMBO...and then, I believe, they remade

it for CMAK...it has Oddball & his Shermans,

the Tiger at the Bank...

Me, I always wanted to do "1941" as an Op, but it takes all kinds...

[Senario Migration to CMx2]

"You wouldn't need to place every star in the universe individually would you? I mean, couldn't you just use standard graphics images of a cloudless night sky, with the stars in their relative positions, and then rotate this graphic around the in-game sky based on time of year and time of 'day'? With cloudiness randomized? I mean, the stars are not going to be involved in any calculations or in game mechanics. Unless there is a mechanism to make them brighter/fainter at dawn/dusk."

Is CM evidence of Intelligent Design?

[Changing my nick??]

"I just wish BF.C would announce the first games and release screens so we wouldn't have to discuss this stuff..."

me too...

but it does the pass the time...

I'll come back in a month...

After 30 days of naming crickets after

prominent Nazis...

[Changing my nick??]

Do cats really NEED email addresses?

[Changing my nick??]

'I have a cat named: "general beauregard!"'

My next cat will be named 'Spot'.

Felines do not care for contention.

[Changing my nick??]

I have an ancestor named "Statesrights Gregory"

(an another one named John Wilkes Booth, but

that's another story) and I don't recall any-

one in my family believing for a second that

the American Civil War was about freeing the

slaves...Lincoln himself made it clear that the

war aim was to preserve and expand the Union

(and it's business interests) at all costs, with

or without slavery.

Those of an idealistic turn of mind may

wish to avert their eyes from the reality

of what happened to African-Americans after

they were 'freed', not to mention the

economic colonization of the South that

followed the Confederacy's defeat.

[Changing my nick??]

"Axolotls and Guinea Pigs are evil pets"

JonS,

I understand your antipathy towards

Mexican Walking Fish...the very concept

of the animal itself is risible, and

furthermore any organism that can regen-

erate limbs and lives on Pizza needs to

be closely watched...

Guniea Pigs on the other hand really

seem to pose little threat except to a

sleeping and pants-less Richard Gere...