Wunsche

Thanks for the advice, guys. Off to see if I can execute the plan!

Here's the problem I have run into: I have no mortars, but I run into allied ATGs or tanks positioned on the other side of a hedge. Their guns have good line of sight, but my tanks don't spot them. Is there any way to destroy them with my tanks? For the ATG, I have tried to use tank HE in area fire mode, but it doesn't seem to penetrate the hedge and knockout the gun. Is my only hope to flank them with infantry/surpress them with MG fire. And is there any solution to the tank on the other side of the hedge? Thanks in advance.

I know there are some exceptional scenario designers out there, and maybe I have missed it in my web surfings, but why has no one tackled a Halbe or Korsun pocket exit scenario? I have heard that designing exit scenarios are hard, and maybe trying to run German troops through a gauntlet may be depressing. But then again, reading Le Tissier's "Slaughter at Halbe," I was thinking to myself that leading a column with 7 to 14 KingTigers and various other vehicles in the night could prove fun. And with "Hell's Gate" as a source, the frantic final breakout from the Korsun pocket should be able to attract designer attention. Just my thoughts (and a sneaky request for either scenario - I'll be glad to test play them).

Gentlemen, I am considering upgrading my CM experience with CMAK, but does the bundled pack include the CMBB retail version or not? I would like the benefit of the new scenarios, mods, etc. Or should I buy CMAK online and buy CMBB in the store? Thanks.

Gentlemen, I am ready to take a good sound whipping from the Soviets, trying to defend with the September 1943 forces that JasonC recommends early on in this thread. My problem is that I am having a tough time finding a good 1.5km x 3km map. Anyone have a decent one or know where I can get one? Thanks for your help. Yann [ August 25, 2003, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Wunsche ]

I know I am going to be trampled underfoot here, but I will give it a try. Both Andreas and JasonC have time and time again in the past shown a great, in-depth knowledge about the goings-on in World War II. Furthermore, this thread has proven to be very thought-provoking for those of us not as well versed like myself. The only request, besides continuing the debate, I have is that both Andreas and JasonC keep this fight clean and stick to teaching me stuff and leave out the name calling. Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge, guys.

Sheesh! Tight shiney black leather? What bad movies are y'all watching? The ones where some M-60 is masquerading as a Tiger? Can I pretend to be a grog for a moment? Only the 12th SS Panzer crews wore leather and it was Italian submarine crew leather (always get the best leather from the Italians).

I think Other Means has called me out. If beavers are allowed to build damns, why can my little German fellows not block river crossings with wire and roadblocks? I do agree that that stuff should be destructible by HE (are you already able to destroy wire?). P.S. Can BFC put in some program that doesn't allow you to pick your forces when drunk? This is very high on some peoples' bug list. [ August 14, 2003, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Wunsche ]

Besides the difficulty and time that might be involved in adding the ahistorical armor to the newer engine, I really don't understand why people want to eliminate the option for others to recreate CMBO battles. I love CMBB and am interested in playing some Italian scenarios (not too fired up about Africa right now), but I would love to be able to recreate some Western European scenarios. I bought the CMBO & CMBB bundled pack, but I have only played CMBO once since CMBB is such a leap forward. Why not allow me to try and recreate some fun BO combat with the newer engine? You can still play in the desert with the realistic tanks, just let me pretend I am in Normandy and play my battles.

As usual, you guys have proven not only to be a priceless source of information, but more than generous in taking the time out to post great replies! Thanks.

Since this board has proven to be an endless source of fascinating historical information for me, can someone enlighten me on three questions: 1. Preparatory artillery barrages. I have read that in 1944 and 1945, the Soviets managed to mass something along 300 guns per kilometer and fired barrages ranging between 45 minutes and 90 minutes. What does this mean? Did the artillery target specific areas, hit it for ten minutes, shift fire to another area for ten minutes? Did each battery obliterate a certain area for the whole barrage? Did these barrages creep from the frontlines to further back during the period of the bombardment? 2. It appears the Soviets used their armor (except at the Seelow Heights) to exploit breakthroughs created by the infantry - typically they were used six to nine hours later. In CM terms, does this mean infantry overwhelming infantry that has been bombarded? Or do they have local infantry-supporting armor? And how does infantry create a breakthrough against other infantry? Again, it seems my common CM belief of combined arms or armor forces rolling over prepared defensive positions seems to be flawed. 3. It also appears that the Soviets launched infantry reconnaissance battalions prior to major offensives to figure out the German defenses. Would this again be pure infantry versus infantry? And what would the frontage be on such an attack? The odds? And how determined would such an attack be? Again, playing this AWESOME game has caused me to ask all these questions about things I assumed but never really understood. Please enlighten me.

I have a question/minor gripe. Still being a relatively new kid on the block, I have several times experienced tank crews bailing out UNDERNEATH their dead tank. The problem is that if enemy infantry advance, these boys are dead meat. Is there some trick to being able to click the crew underneath without clicking the dead tank instead? Or should I just resign myself to these crews huddling underneath their tanks?!?

As usual, this forum and its members are an endless source of information. Thanks for the help.

Folks, As usual, I need some help. What was the terrain like around Demjansk? I assume since it is in the north, that it was wooded and gentle hills. The reason I ask is that I want to play a game in that area set for June 1942. Clearly, I need to buy a good map of Mother Russia. Thanks for the help.

JasonC, I bow down to your unbelievable knowledge. Thanks for the great info, though now you have extended the life of my Waffen SS gaming at the expense of trying some of the more common Heer combat. I'll need to bookmark this so that I can go back and refer to the force picks and point totals. If you aren't already, you should clearly be teaching at college somewhere or writing books. Either that or cranking out scenario after scenario with Rune! Yann [ May 26, 2003, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Wunsche ]

Thanks again for the good responses. I guess I will have to ween myself off the concept of trying to recreate Waffen SS combat between 5/43 and 5/45 and be more open to experimenting with the Heer with my fun PBEM opponents. Nonetheless, it is tough just letting the OOB be decided by CMBB though. If I want to do an assault simulating LSSAH or Wiking crashing forward, I get stuck with SS mechanized and depending on the point total, I can only scratch up a platoon of MkIVs and another of StuGs to support a reinforced infantry company. What insane point total do I need to set the battle up for to get a platoon of Panthers (which should represent approximately half of a Waffen SS Panzer division's tanks in the late war period) or a company of MkIVs without using "unrestricted"? I assume Spring Awakening and the relief battles around Budapest involved massed German armored assaults that I have a tough time recreating in QBs. I guess the response is to make my own scenarios. Again thanks for all the great responses. I would argue that ME aren't unnatural when you consider all the times that breakthrough operations occurred on the East Front. When the lines became fluid with opposing forces rushing forces to take important ground that was in the defense's rear or when the defense was almost surrounded and trying to find a way out of the trap, a ME would occur in my mind. But I could be wrong.

Since there are many much brighter and better informed people than me on this forum, maybe you can answer a question I have. Essentially, in every PBEM game that I have participated in EVERYONE has armor no matter the situation. I am as guilty of this as everyone else, but my question is how common was armor on the Eastern Front? It seems from my reading of history books, that clearly armor did exist in large numbers and was actively engaged along the main axes of attack. But what about all those infantry divisions fighting other infantry divisions elsewhere? Did MkIVs and T-34s show up there as well? Or was infantry versus infantry a much more common battle? And the same goes for ATGs. If the big ATGs were everywhere like they are in my games, etc., what good is the reconnaisance battalion armed only with light tanks and tin can armored cars? In essence when the 126.Infanterie-Division fought let's say the 112th Rifle Division, wasn't essentially it MGs, rifles, grenades, and artillery that fought it out? No fancy Panthers or ISU-122s. Some color would be appreciated to put my games in perspective. Is all that armor and ATGs as common as the game leads me to believe or are we all bringing the sexier, dangerous stuff to the battle to counter our opponent? (Since I always pick Waffen SS troops, my games already represent such a small fraction of the overall front but armor should be more common since most of the Waffen SS units were Panzer or Panzergrenadier units.)

Not only do I respect the low member number, but Gary is great fun to play against. So no disrespect intended, I am merely trying to make sure that I learn how to deal with these situations in the future. And just for the record, nowhere nohow do I claim that Gary was being gamey. [ May 11, 2003, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Wunsche ]

Thanks for the help, gentlemen. Now that means I need to bring more mortars to the game. I did pop a full 81mm onboard at one of these entrenched devils and didn't manage anything but suppression...

Folks, First of, I love the game and all the hard work that everyone has put into it. Secondly, I know there are reams of posts on this, but I couldn't find any recent ones searching under "gun hull down unhittable," "gun unhittable," and "gun bug." Thirdly, I know this will be addressed with the official patch, but for the time being... What is the best, most recent solution to the FREAKIN' unhittable ATGs? Is there an ingame non-1.03 tactic to use? The reason I ask is that my crafty opponent has placed several ATGs in trenches with very nice lines of fire. After essentially having four or five StuGs and MkIV empty all their HE from different firing positions at two ATGs without doing anything other than burrowing in the ground 60 meters in front, I have now had four shot up from a gun that he drug onto a height that I bypassed. Kudos to him for the move, but I want to kick the screen in because essentially two ATGs have stopped all infantry and armor movement now.

JasonC, As usual, a great help. I know y'all experts repeatedly post the same advice, but it takes idiots like me reading it at least 50 times before it sinks in not to try and close within 50 meters or to lead with armor... Wunsche

Oh my God. I am sure this thread is going to be shut down rather soon, but you can't be serious when you guys are trying to defend the Russians' record. No one is going to argue that not only the Einsatztruppen, but also the Waffen SS and Wehrmacht (Komissar order) violated the Geneva Convention left and right in Russia. It was a merciless war by both sides. Besides Katyn (what atrocities did the Poles commit against the Russians to deserve this?), there are countless stories of atrocities by both sides in 1941. But focusing on the Russians (since I think most of us will agree the Germans committed more than their fair share of outrageous acts), 153 German prisoners were massacred on July 1, 1941 (War without Garlands pg 137). And to further quote, "eye and genital mutilations were inflicted with such frequency on German prisoners during the early part of the campaign that it increased unease further..." "One Soviet 26th Division report dated July 13th 1941 observed... some 80 Germans had surrendered and were executed." Further, the NKVD executed four thousand inmates of the Brygidky prison in Lvov prior to June 30, 1941. Sepp Dietrich's Waffen SS unit took no prisoners for three days after discovering six dead mutilated troopers around a German ambulance. And this was all within the first months of the war. What fraction of Germans captured at Stalingrad returned to Germany? And let's not talk about what happened in Germany (systematic rape, ethnic cleansing, etc.) Clearly both sides fought a total war outside the bounds of "civilized" warfare. Period. The Germans were the aggressors and more organized in their atrocities, but the Russians weren't far behind. Sorry, but this really touches a nerve.

Double Post [ April 17, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Wunsche ]

All right, I'll be the first to admit that I am an idiot when it comes to figuring out how this all works. And I appreciate the patience y'all are showing. I have gone to the combatmission site and have downloaded all the dunkelgrau German tanks and winter tanks until my heart's content. Nonetheless, what I am desperately looking for are the dunkelgelb tanks. Currently, I only have three dunkelgelb tanks that aren't winterized. I know there must be a store of them, but where do I find the CMMOS dunkelgelb tanks?!?

This has likely been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, but why are there so few CMMOS German armour mods? I know people have done a ton of work on other mods, but is it very difficult to make CMMOS mods? I love mods, but I like the simplicity of using CMMOS. Thanks for the information in advance.