Flash Gordon

RE: The ambulance chaser... ...thanks but no thanks. I prefer to hold this over Hubert's head indefinitely...

One possible solution to a possibly a-historical invasion of North America would be to just not have it on the map (which is what COS did, I believe). However, this might mess up other things in the gameplay. Basically, one would have to either leave N. America completely off the map or put N. America in its ENTIRETY on the map. In the first case, you can't invade what isn't there so problem solved. In the second case, you can certainly TRY to invade N. America but the country is almost as big as the USSR, the capitol will relocate if you take it (there is a historical precedence for this, afterall during the Revolutionary War) and meanwhile, your supply lines are getting more and more strained. Plus, with partisans popping up left and right, good luck - just be prepared to pump a ton of resources into the invasion.

DOUBLE POST - SORRY [ November 17, 2002, 04:01 AM: Message edited by: Flash Gordon ]

I can blame one of my illnesses on SC. I got it just after I had recovered from a bad flu (during the flu, I had downloaded the demo and played the jeebers out of it - damn that one year time limit!). So, what did I do? I played it. Unfortunately, I lost track of time and by the time I went to bed it was very late - it was the latest I had ever stayed up without alcohol being involved since the all-nighters I used to pull in school. The next day, I felt like poop - I basically suffered a relapse of sorts and was sick AGAIN thanks to this game, which I just couldn't stop playing. I think staying up that late must have run down my immune system or something. Needless to say, I was not pleased. [ November 17, 2002, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: Flash Gordon ]

Hmmm...I usually invade the USA because...it's FUN! Yes, FUN! Is it dweeby - yes! But when playing Axis, it satisfies the megalomaniac in me to see my grand Axis fleet (built at the rate of one battleship a month!) cross the Atlantic and pound the USA and Canada into submission. I think this portion of the game outlines quite prominently some of the shortcomings of the SC game system (which will hopefully be addressed and corrected in SC2)...but I have to admit, it's still FUN.

PBEM play is available in Clash of Steel?!?! Is it in V1.1? I'm playing V1.0 right now.

Guys, Rambo is TWELVE years old. Letting a kid who probably isn't even in high-school get your blood up just doesn't make sense. As for Rambo - remember, you are TWELVE years old. I'm sure you're a bright kid for your age but you'll discover as you get older that you'll look back at yourself now and wonder just what possessed you to do and think certain things. Later, Flash

Hey, wait a sec...what's WRONG with a Yahoo address?!?!

It means the Romans were over-rated!!!!

Rambo, you state that Patton was a total stud. You also assert that the Germans were over-rated. Which leads us to a curious paradox. Let us assume that Patton WAS a stud of war, the personification of Ares who is now sitting at the seat of honour at the banquet table in Valhalla, regaling all the other heroes of old with his tales of valour and battle. Patton idolized the Germans, considering them man-for-man better than the average American soldier. Why would Patton think the Germans were good? Possibly due to impressions gleaned from the field of battle. So...if the Germans truly were over-rated, what does that say about Patton? Food for thought... Flash

We ALWAYS agreed. If you look at my first post, you'll note that I mentioned that the Stuka was effective when it operated under conditions of Luftwaffe air superiority - the first time this air superiority was contested and beaten was during the Battle of Britain. I think my wording in the first post may have been the result of this misunderstanding - I didn't mean to imply that the Stuka was effective and then BANG during and after the Battle of Britain it was a POS...I mentioned the Battle of Britain as an example of when the Stuka was not as effective as before (because of the loss of air superiority).

...of Clash of Steel. The similarities between COS and SC were very evident - looking at SC again, you can see its ancestry quite easily. Research in COS seemed to be slower although I did end up with jets as the Axis in 1942...which is when I started losing the war with my Atlantic fleet in flames and my Italian navy sleeping with the fishes with most of N. Africa in the hands of the Allies and the Allies entrenched and holding out at Brest and my offensive in Russia getting off to a really shakey start (no real advances). The fact that the navy is handled differently threw me off - I kept forgetting to check the naval map for the positions of the Allied navies, allowing them to land troops here and there with impunity because I just didn't see them in time. The Allied AI was surprisingly aggressive, attempting an amphibious assault on Hamburg in 1940 (which was repulsed). I liked how you could choose to make your naval units either act as units attempting to fight a set piece battle, or as merchant raiders, attacking shipping. I thought the shipment of war materiel from Sweden to Germany via convoys was a nice touch as well. I didn't like how strategic bombings were abstracted but I really liked how the application of diplomatic pressure was abstracted in the game. There was even a pro-Allied coup in Yugoslavia while the Germans and Italians were massing at their borders! Whoa, deja vu! A pretty fun game - too bad a play by e-mail option isn't possible.

Yes, Stukas were also effective in Russia - when the Luftwaffe had local air superiority. They were also effective in North Africa and the MTO when the Luftwaffe (and the RA) had local air superiority. Once air superiority was lost, the Stukas were defenseless. Yes, Hans-Ulrich Rudel destroyed a lot of Soviet tanks (plus a few ships and around a dozen airplanes) but eventually, he, along with all the other Stuka pilots, had to convert to the FW190F (the ground attack version of the FW190) once the VVS began to close the qualitative gap with the Luftwaffe. With that being said, the Stuka was an incredible machine for delivering bombs on target - highly accurate and devestating...when the Luftwaffe had air superiority.

The absolute accuracy of Time Life history books has been questioned in the past.

The charge of Polish cavalry against German tanks has been the subject of some controversy. To some, it is the epitome of stupidity and backwardness...to others, the very definition of bravery and honour. The fact is that the Polish committed their cavalry as a last ditch, hopeless effort. Also, it is my understanding that the cavalry men attempted to use satchel charges against the German tanks. And for those who think that horses in an era of mechanized warfare is "backward", bear in mind that for the entire war, the majority of the German army depended on horses to get it from point A to point B...only a tiny fraction of the German army was actually mechanized. And in the Phillipines, American cavalry men fought against the Japanese...on horseback.

This is semi-historical. When France capitulated to the Germans, the British INTERNED French troops that had escaped to Great Britain during the Dunkirk evacuation and also boarded French Navy ships in English docks.

Yeah, Patton is a really good movie... like when the German tanks just roll over their own German infantery, yeah... of course it is all true... definately not a propaganda movie... Definately the best movie I have ever seen! ~Norse~</font>

Actually, it is unlikely that Germany would have developed the atomic bomb before the USA. There were many reasons but one of them was the fact that Hitler wasn't too keen on the idea because it relied on "Jew Physics".

1) The Germans were OVER-RATED !!! I'm tired of hearing all the bull-crap about their generals, equipment, planning, engineering, pretty uniforms, etc. ANYBODY CAN DEFEAT UN-ARMED COUNTRIES. Poland, Low Countries, & Baltic States don't count. Actually, at the operational level, the Germans were very impressive. Even near the end of the war, when the Germans were literally scraping the bottom of the barrel when it came to manpower, drafting scared young boys and old men, many Allied soldiers conceded that the German soldier was superior to his Allied counterpart. 2) The SS were OVER-RATED !!! Big-deal shooting women & children. They hid behind the lines, until a nice soft spot was available. The Waffen SS did not hide behind the lines but was very much on the front lines. However, it must be acknowledged that the average Waffen SS division was larger and better equipped than the average regular Army division, especially near the end of the war, as Hitler began to have doubts about the army. And much of the Waffen SS's prowess in battle no doubt came from their fanaticism. And while they may have been incredible soldiers in battle, they also committed some pretty terrible atrocities as well. 3) The Stukas were OVER-RATED !!! Anybody can bomb somebody who can't shoot back. Stukas were very effective until the Battle of Britain where it became evident that they were very vulnerable in areas where the Luftwaffe did not have local air superiority. However, they were capable of placing bombs on target with amazing accuracy. And their vulnerability in areas where the enemy had air superiority is not confined to them alone - ALL bombers were vulnerable if their airforce had not established local air superiority. 4) The War @ Sea is UNDER-RATED: It took brass balls to go out in the middle of the Atlantic in some U-Boat. It certainly took balls of steel to go to war in a U-boat but the Battle of the Atlantic has been consistently over-rated by historians. Even at the height of the U-boat menace, more than 99% of shipping from North America to Great Britain got through, i.e. the tonnage they sank was merely a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the shipping that made it through. 5) The French are weak: UNTRUE!!! Look at all the wars they had been involved in over history. Vietnam, Napolean, War of the Roses, Dark Ages crap, French & Indian, etc. Yes, the got their ass kick in WWII & are a little whimpy now, but over the big picture they have fought well. Agreed. The French got a bad rep in WWII. Basically, their political system was majorly FUBAR and much of her high command was old and ineffectual. That combined with "war dread" brought about by the horrendous casualties that they took in WWI resulted in an army which was fairly timid. No matter how good the man at the sharp end is, if the people running the show are bad, all of his efforts and sacrifices will be for nothing. This adage is also applicable to the German army as well as the US armed forces in Vietnam - the finest efforts of the fighting man at the front will come to nothing if poor or misguided leadership is the norm. 6) Africa was a waste of time in WWII!!! Who gives a rats ass about Libya & Egypt. If Germany was some smart, why didn't they go for the oil instead of dicking around in the sand (kitty box)? They could have used those troops & resources in Russia. Unfortunately, Germany didn't have much choice but to dick around in the sand. First of all, I don't think much of the oil in that region was even discovered during this period. Second, the Mediterranean and North Africa comprised Germany's southern flank. To just give it up and hand it over to the British would have been folly. Plus, much of Britain's shipping came through the Mediterranean so to give the British the run of the place would have set back Germany's war effort. As for whether they could have used those resources in Russia - the manpower and equipment that Germany committed to North Africa was NOTHING in comparison to what it had devoted to action in Russia. Most of the troops that Rommel commanded were Italian. 7) Resistance Fighters are UNDER-RATED!!! Snipers, French Underground, Sabatours, etc. played a huge role screwing up the Germans. The French resistance really didn't play that significant of a role due to the harsh measures the SS took. It really didn't flare up until it was obvious that the Germans were on the way out. 8) Patton is the biggest STUD!!! Yes, the battlefield kill ratio & stats are questionable (do you believe everything you read), but this guy banged his way across France & opened up the front. He saved, or lets say "our blood, his guts" rescued alot of GI's at the Bulge. Whether Patton is a stud or not is subject for debate. Ask ten different guys, you'll get ten different opinions. 9) The fire bombing of Dresden is UNDER-RATED. Everybody talks about "The Nukes" which makes sense. But hell, fire-bombing people to death worked. Fire-bombing people to death worked? Yes, it certainly did. But as for bringing the war to a closer end, it didn't have the intended result. The rationale behind bombing civilian centers was to undermine civilian morale. Unfortunately, civilian morale had a tendency to actually go up as a result of bombings. The same thing happened in Great Britain when the Germans bombed London during the Battle of Britain and later the Blitz. And the same thing happened in Germany when RAF Bomber Command returned the favour in spades. 10) And, finally, I think the Allies could have save alot of lives if a different attack was used instead of D-Day. It seems like the history books (& movies) emphasize the whole battle revolved about the landing areas & keeping them secret. Alot of allied body bags were used. Could there have been a better plan than D-Day? A lot of lives were lost at Omaha Beach. But the other landings that occurred at the same time came at a cheaper price in terms of human life lost. Basically, the guys at Omaha Beach drew the short straw in the bundle. Landing troops on continental Europe had to be done. Trying to bomb the Germans to the point where they would have had to surrender was not working. Invading through the "soft underbelly" was an idiotic obsession of Churchills and cost a lot of lives which might have otherwise been spared had someone taken a closer look at the map of Italy and realized that the terrain and the shape of the country made it ideal for defense. So a landing at to be made on France. The only other alternative would have been to just sit it out until the Russians beat the Germans...which would have been unacceptable in light of the fact that post-war Europe would have been completely under the sphere of the USSR.

What SC2 really needs is sharks with frickin' lasers on their heads.

How about this. At the beginning of the game, the computer randomly selects two of your technologies. This two will NEVER increase no matter HOW much chips you put in them. Muahahaha!!!! That'll slow down technological growth alright...plus, it'll make for some interesting situations where a person has stuff invested in a technology, it isn't increasing, and he's starting to wonder whether it's because he's just been unlucky or whether that technology is one of the random two that will never increase...

Bum: You got a quarter? Hubert Cater: Sure...here you go, old-timer...wait a sec, you're the creator of COS! Creator of COS: No, I'm not! No, I'm not! Even if I was, I did that in another state and there's no way you're extraditing me... H. Cater: No, don't be afraid. I just wanted to tell you how much I admired your earlier work. It was truly an inspiration to me and was a guiding light in my early development as a game designer. Creator of COS: Oh...okay, yeah, in that case, I did write COS. H. Cater: I was wondering, how much you would be willing to part with the rights to COS for? Creator of COS: $20!!!! H. Cater: $20? Creator of COS: $20, dammit! And not a quarter less. H. Cater: Okay, sure. Let me see, I guess we'll have to get my lawyer to finalize this... Creator of COS: Gimme, gimme...hey, wait a sec...why do you want the rights to COS? H. Cater: Uhhh... Creator of COS: $20 isn't enough! I want $100! No, wait, nothing more than $1000! $10,000! Screw that, $100,000! Wait, no, I want a gazillion million billion dollars! H. Cater: Uhhh, never mind. Creator of COS: Hey, come back here! [ November 12, 2002, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Flash Gordon ]

There were several decisive campaigns in which the Allies "won sneaky" - the BoB just wasn't one of them.

Manual?!?! We don' need no steenkin' manual!!!! That's the beauty of SC - it's so simple, you can learn the game by just playing around with it. Hopefully, SC2 will retain this elegant simplicity whilst cleaning up some strange gameplay issues.

One way would be to de-couple the industrial technology level of a country from "normal" research. Maybe weight things differently so that one "chit" research devoted to developing industrial technology is half or one-third as effective as it would be used somewhere else. Not a perfect solution but it would make investing in IT "hurt" a little more especially since advances wouldn't come as quickly as they normally would. Maybe make them one-fourth as effective. Since the game doesn't take the morale of the populace into account, I don't think anything above this can be done unless a major re-writing of the guts of the game is done. However, since this IS SC2 we're talking about, then maybe this isn't so far off base. Anyway, with this in mind, there is the option of COMPLETELY revamping the way research is done for SC2 to make things more realistic while keeping things non-deterministic.