Kuniworth

Xwormwood I dont either like the bashing of Huberts games, I've played them too much and he is doing a great job. But with that said and the pontential clear to anyone I want it to get better. I did not post in the strategic command design challenge because my opinions were long known, Ive posted several threads about this long before this design competition. I reckon though that I could have done that, but I meanwhile also had some mixed emotions when I've heard about PDE, for me it was disappoing that we saw another expansion instead of sc3. Anyhow hopefully the upcoming games will be good. Hubert usually listen to many suggestion maybe he might reconsider a more sc1 like game. I have no trouble with him or the beta testers, what I really dislike though is the yay-saying attitude this forum sometimes have. Maybe it's due to crtitics not beeing constructive enough but I don't really think that explains all of it.

So you don't think Chuck Norris could stop them?

Frankly I still find it as irritating now as back in 2004 with this defend-all-to-the-death apporach by some of the beta testers and other yes-sayers over here. Im starting to feel like 2004 again with the infected debate over Rokossovsky. In my world you don't slam the door in the face on cri9tics, espeically not here on people who came back for 6 years to improve something they love. No you should embrace it and listen, because in the end we only got each other. I have confidence in Hubert, his selection of beta testers are surely valid from his point of view, people like Edwin and Blashy are loyal workhorses that will work very hard. That's ok but what I don't like is this apporach to defend instead of listening. Jon J Rambo really put the line down, what game created must fuzz and fun? What game is it that people want to play? I never heard anyone except Edwin push for PDE for example. But I see a lot of veterans pushing for sc3 or inproved sc+. Listen please. Now regarding ww2 there are a lot of work to be done to get design decisions to get it right. I would therefore officialy like to nominate JerseyJohn for sc+ beta team to help Hubert work on the historical aspects of the game. I never ever again want to fight to get Rokossovsky in or be surprised by unhistorical "features". Get JerseyJohn in.

I like Jersey's idea of a sc1+ - Include the sc2 editor of PDE with some refinement - diplomacy that run with diplomacy points like road to victory or similar - weather - no nonhistorical invasions in middle of winter and similar weird stuff - retreat rules - Map and counters that looks like a real map Add some more minor suggestions and we'll have a winner

This is not a correct description of what happened historically.

You got definately a point here.

Well you certainly got a valid point here, who have the strength to refine a new game. That's true. And Hubert is solid that we all know. But as Xwormwood wrote , unless you have a crush on an ugly stepsister we need some improvements. For me hexes are good because everytime I play a game which got them suddenly you can have a coherent frontline and no speedy movement west-east as with tiles. With tiles in sc2 it's more of a gang mob than sc2 strategy, that's also the reason why I think sc2 works better with divison sized scenarios like Bill's Poland where you got more of a tactical feel than just the strategic one. Think of it this way, I see you're from Texas. Now imagine you want a juicy t-bone steak and the chef in the steakehouse is named Chuck Norris. You know Chuck well, he can make great steaks and once you ate a splendid stake which have had you come back year after year. Sometimes at your visits you want some extra peppar on the steak and Chuck was just happy to fix the steak after your wishes. Now one day Chuck tells you there will be a new enhanced t-bone steak to be served in the steakhouse. Happy as you can be you ordered it and find it to be tasty but in a different kind of way. To your surprise you realise that Chuck has not barbecued the steak at all but fried it. So politely you ask Chuck what happened to the barbecue and suddenly Chuck's friends who work in the kitchen attacks you with phrases of how good this new steak are, how well peppered it is etc. You try to say yes it's perfectly salted but...and then once more Chuck's pals attack you and keep saying that you should make the best of it and that in the end the steak will fill up your stomach anyway. So you say to Chuck, hey Chuck can't I have my old steak back with just some extra pepper? Chuck does'nt reply just post this symbol at you and then continue to talk about how good his next steak will be based upon the recepie of the fried steak. Then you become baffled so you speak to other customers and many among them also think the new fried steak is great but misses the old one. Some have left for other restaurants but you keep coming back to Chuck because he have not let you down before. So now in a vain attempt you lobby to get Chuck to barbecue his next invention like the first steak you had, but all you get is this symbol and promise of how much similar the fried steak and the barbecue steak taste. But you know the difference. Now what do you do? Do you speak up to Chuck because the customer is always right, or do you let him do his walker texas ranger dance?

LOL classic.

This post made no sense to me. You say you want the same thing but at the same time you just happy with what you get. It's like your reply to the Road to Victory game, where you said something like "oh boy not another one" instead of looking at the features. Tell me what you want in a SC3 - what would you like to see? It's time to step up, come on give me some sugesstions instead of I want what you want balooney.

We are not looking back, we are looking FORWARD. We want to influence the coming games of Hubert not come nagging about it when it's too late.

Les posted about anglo-german war over at Buntaland. Look at the art-work on this map: http://schwerpunkt.wargamer.com/AGW/agwscr2.htm It still is 2d but I think it looks better than most 3d stuff outthere...

That was a great post justanotherwargamer.

Battleboy seem kind of weird you want tiles and chutes & ladders. The suggestion sounds kinda non-wargaming to say the least. Playing chess you only got two pieces of 16 that moves in all 8 direction, here everyone does. get serious, both me and Rambo been around here since 2002 because we love this game. But we want the series to remember what made it so brilliant eg the simple design and one of the best head to head strategy games of all time. YOu should haven been around in 2002-2003, what a riot and first class community this was. Now other companies are making a big buck selling that idea over and over again. Imagine SC1 with the great benefits of PDE(editor, decision events etc) - what a winner. Hubert made a terrific work with the sc2-series, I even had the chance to develop a scenario for WaW. But why not go back to basics as so many people like. Or why not make an expansion pack for SC1 at least, with editors and stuff so those who like it at least stay around.

Yeah if it's possible why not make a sc1 enhanced version? With the great sc2 editor and possibility to change layout of the mapboard etc. They game is there just add these things and I would be so happy.

There is a great thread going now in the sc1 forum. Seem people would wanna buy an enhanced sc1 again, with some new great features.

Only one using tiles are the SC2-series. Lets go back to hexes.

Is it possible to keep sc2 engine and get hexes instead of tiles?

Hexes are the best, tiles make defence more difficult and combat more of a slugfest than holding a line.

thanks, that'll be great.

Glad to hear that Tony.

Look I think this community needs to look at itself and realize competition is getting tougher. I don't know how many times Ive pointed out improvements and the problem with sc2, which is in short that the combat system is not simulation ww2. Now, we see this new company and we've seen Commander, and know there are companies evolving this genre very rapidly. So what do Hubert and BF do? Release another expansion. Nothing wrong with that but it's time to move on. Time for SC3 and back to basics. SC1 is still one of the best strategy-games ever made, and with multiplayer-capability(came with patch 1.03 I think) this was just awesome. I have never played such a frustrating game but also so rewarding if you won. The french campaign of SC1 was outstanding. Now with sc2 much improvements happened. Much of it was good but some were not. Tiles instead of hexes, no retreat rules, isometric view(what was wrong with top down or possibility to shift angle I don't know), convoy and fleet function and not possible to play just USSR or one country if you so liked. What was good was of course the editor-capabilities(although editor is still not that user-friendly) and above all the best AI so far. However Ive been around here now for 6 years and Im disappointed of PDE. Not that it's not a good game, but that Hubert and BF did not move along. I mean expansions yes, but we've been playing now since 2004-2005 with the same game-engine of sc2. What we need now is to move on, make the game much better. And you can speak all you want about players coming and going but what happened here? Where is Rambo, Terif, Condor, BriantheWise, Dragonheart and all the others??? The hardcore players have left. And don't tell me they would have left anyway, that's crap, these guys played every night for years. That's dedication. Where are they now? We had one of the best grognard-communities here and we need to get them back. Announce sc3, ww2 as the theatre, and I will be glad to help the dev-team make some campaigns of the russian front.

The idea of political points seem interesting. And it got hexes.

Thought I'd post a link to my youtube video about the russian ww2 generation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-jjum2HkHo It takes 5 minutes to watch, take the time to spice up your SC-play with some historical flavor.

What! Blashy not a member of the beta-team for PDE? Come on is this a joke? This dude earned his wings long ago.

Im not in to this cold war scenarios either so I'd say go for sc2 waw. But personally Im looking forward to SC3 which will hopefully be reality one day, hexes and retreatrules is what I want.