Jollyguy

Blashy (Allied) and I (Axis) started a new game. Only house rule is no Axis DOW of Turkey. I decided to utilize the same strategy that Sombra used on me, hitting the Poles turn one with about 5 units and an HQ and approaching the gates of Warsaw with armor, while operating an HQ and numerous units west, to hit Benelux turn two, which I did as the weather was good, bringing the Be’s and Ne’s and Lux’es under heel. At the end of Turn two I moved a cruiser back to Konigsberg and amphibed the corp there, which I’m not sure is necessary, to have a ship there to toss the amphib unit out another hex, but with only a six hex range I wanted to make sure it could reach Copenhagen. I also hit the French mine with two airfleets to gain experience, and the French airfleet did not intercept. Turn three the weather cooperated again, and Denmark was brought under heel and Warsaw captured. I probably could have hit Denmark turn two, but wanted to be safe as this is the first time I’ve used this strategy. Blashy dispersed his Poles so I hit as many as possible, and Poland surrendered turn 3. Blashy retreated from the Maginot Line and I advanced in that vicinity, inflicting what damage I could. He covered the mine with his airfleet, which I reduced to 1. That’s where we sit. IMO this strategy is weather dependent, as if the French get lucky and mud arrives early, then the Axis probably should not DOW Benelux, which means they’ve incurred all those operating costs with little to show for it. Plus, with lucky weather the Poles have a chance to defend Warsaw into 1940 and see Russian readiness bump. But if successful these opening moves result in more mpps sooner for Axis, probably more than offsetting the operating costs, and throw the Allies on their heels, which means the Frenchies probably can’t buy chits for Iraq, plus the Brits may feel compelled to abandon the Med and start buying corps and not be able to buy Spanish chits as fast, as Sea Lion would be a possibility. Bob

Okay, I called this game, Axis victory. Basically an Axis Turkish invasion is a game killer until patched. Blashy and I chatted, and he is right, the Russians could hold on for quite awhile. But taking Turkey moves the strategic initiative permenently to the Axis. I would have to retreat and set up a defensive line in the Caucusses, which means he would consolidate Turkey, then he takes Iran with his paratroop already in the vicinity because I can't hang around down there. Then he turns back to Greece and Yugoslavia, etc., etc. I've played enough minor collecting games with Rambo and others to know where it goes eventually. So, in my games I will insist on no Turkish invasion until patched, as Terif as done in Panzerliga, and will not do so in the games where I'm Axis. Bob

Jon; Have you been on Panzerliga and seen Sombra’s ranking? It’s not quite Trindad (me) vs Sweden (Sombra), although Trinidad played very well Saturday, but Sombra is definitely the superior player over me, as are you. I like a challenge much more than whether I win or lose, thought, because I learn a lot more a lot faster playing better players than newbies. But anyway, I’ll give Sombra his money’s worth, even though I’m down 0-2 in the count already. And eventually my rankings will improve I’m sure, as I start to apply the learning curve to other games. Meanwhile, you need to patch-up, so we can start our Friday tcp sessions again. Bob

I can tell you that a big part of the imbalance with Turkey DOW’ing is that it stretches the already stretched Russians to the breaking point. In SC 1 there was a ban on 1st turn DOW of majors because the Germans could DOW and land in northern Russia before the Russians could react. The situation is analogous here. The Axis gets first shot at placement, and of course they’re going to take that eastern city, to stop the Russians from operating units in by cordoning off the battlefield. And even if the Russians could operate in the Axis could go on the defensive in Russia while concentrating on Turkey. Once Turkey was consolidated the Axis could operate units (which the Russians can’t do with a cordoned off battlefield), and could then continue into the Caucusses, AND keep open the threat of amphib landings in the Black Sea, which would basically be a third front. That’s a lot of territory for the Russians to cover that early in the game. I think Turkey should be a viable option for the Axis, but it needs to be patched and brought into balance, as like Terif said, as it is now it’s over in two to four turns, which is exactly what’s going to happen to me I’m sure. The Turks should also probably have a 5 strength, entrenched HQ, I’ll take that over that useless 5 strength airfleet they start with. IMO what should happen if Turkey is invaded is the Russians should have a localized reserve mobilized, like the US gets now if they’re invaded. That, and a different placement of Turkish units, would mean the Germans would have a fight on their hands, rather than pushover that is actually easier than France. Can you imagine that, the fearsome Turks with all those sharp knives, and endless mountains to fight from, succumbing faster than the French? That in itself is an imbalance. As it is, the Russians barely have enough units in 1942 to cover one front much less three. I.e., while I was down there trying to defend the Caucusses, Blashy was pouring through my lines in Russia proper. But keep in mind, the ban isn’t on invading the Caucusses, if the Axis want’s to do that they can, but the Russians have a better chance of defending the Caucusses than a Turkey DOW. Bob

Thanks, Terif. All right, I am going to unilaterally tell my opponents where I’m Axis that I won’t invade Turkey, and insist (are you listening, Sombra?) that in the games where I’m Allied that Turkey can’t be invaded. I will likely just record Blashy’s game as an Allied loss, as I’ve never liked playing games past the point where it’s totally obvious that one side will prevail. Thanks for verifying my feelings, Terif, and I hope this gets patched, as no Axis Turkish invasion is a house rule for me here on out. Bob

So, I spent 60 mpps to rebuild the unit, with Cairo expected to fall next turn. Once Cairo falls does that mean that the 60 mpps is gone forever? If so, I guess part of the learning curve. Bob

I agree with Blashy on Axis bombers, wielded correctly they are potentially powerful adjuncts to the Axis armada. One thing that Axis players will need to adapt to in SC 2 is that the old SC 1 blitzkrieg in Russia, where you try to knock the Russians out ASAP and by 1942 if possible, likely is not the best strategy in SC 2. In SC 2 more planning is involved, and the strengths and weaknesses of varying units offer new capabilities, and the Russians can hang on longer. With that in mind I think I also agree with Blashy on Leningrad. Depending on how the game unfolds, Leningrad can be an important city to take. The only thing I would have done different than Blashy is to swing east and envelop it and knock the city down to five ASAP. I think he was worried that I would chop off any move east, but all I had there was one corp to help keep the city connected to Moscow and thus up to 10 strength. I had the bulk of my force meeting his main invasion force, with the remainder waiting in the Caucusses, as after he took Syria and Iraq joined, I was concerned he was going to go after the Caucusses and/or Turkey, which he did do eventually. The fact that in 1.02 Blashy’s Axis were able to overcome my infantry weapons 3 and anti-tank level 3, fully entrenched troops, and take Leningrad, and attack Turkey, still shows that the Axis pack a powerful punch. I’m not complaining, as things will evolve, and Allied counters will develop, but it does show that the game has moved more toward balance, not out of balance in favor of the Allies as some have suggested. Can you imagine the Allies trying to counter Blashy’s moves in 1.0, without the improvements to the Allied side that were made in 1.01 and 1.02? And also, a key to the Axis attack in this game is that he didn’t wait until Russian readiness was in the 80s or 90s. He attacked in the summer of 1941, which is somewhat historical, and which kept my Russians from building up fully. IMO this is an odds on Axis move, as they have the experienced units. To wait much longer allows the Russians to buildup, and likely gain the advantage of mud and winter. This is also a change from SC 1, when weather had no effect, and the only thing you monitored was Russian readiness. Bob

The Axis (Blashy) made some good moves the past turn. First, a motorization II corp swooped down an empty Murmansk, which I did initially have garrisoned, but when I saw the Axis paratroop in Turkey I thought I was safe and had operated him down to the front. So, in the future, the lesson is to not leave Murmansk ungarrisoned if Finland is still Axis. He also took another undefended city, which shows the power of motorization II in the broad expanses of Russia. I chalk these mistakes up to learning curve, all part of trying the game on for size. Mistakes like these are seldom repeated twice, and I throw them out so other players can mull them over. Here is a summary of the Turkish campaign, which I just created another thread for: In my Turkish campaign I was able to amphip over a Russian corp to the center Turkish city, and then another, which Blashy initially had tried to isolate with two tanks. What he did then was have his two tanks turn west toward Ankara to join up with two corps moving east, and eventually took out my Turkish corp near the isthums, and moved another German corp across the isthmus to fully concentrate on Ankara. I advanced on the Eastern city, where he went on the defensive. I haven’t looked at my latest turn, but IMO it is likely that Ankara will fall and the Turks surrender, as he has three airfleets around Istanbul in addition to the three corps and two tanks, so I just don’t see the Turks surviving another turn. Once they surrender he can start operating/moving east with a substantial force. IMO there is a good chance that the Turkish campaign will determine the outcome of the war. And also IMO we’re still beta testing here, as I’m sure Blashy wanted to try this Turkish variant out. As in SC 1, creases in strategy are always experimented with, and can be expected to be tested along the way toward game balance. I’ve asked Terif’s input as if I did something wrong I’m more than willing to learn. But in SC 1 it was usually the Allies that got to DOW Turkey first, giving them the strategic initiative. In SC 2 it will likely be the other way around. Although, as I write, I guess the Russian could do a pre-emptive Turkish invasion when Syria is invaded and Iraq joins the Axis? Perhaps in hindsight that’s the answer? I believe I actually might have had enough time to do this during early Barbarossa, as I had multiple units and my sole HQ in the Caucusses expecting an invasion from that direction, but Blashy held off for months, by which time I had moved my units toward his main invasion force. A pre-emptive attack done correctly would gain the Russians the far eastern and center city, and allow them to garrison Turkey fairly well, and also threaten Iraq. Anyway, I welcome the discussion. The downside is it stretches the Russians out, as trying to defend not only the Turkish but also the Caucuss front would require a fair number of troops. Out west the build-up continues, while Blashy feinted and retreated with his combined German/Italian fleet, which he now has all up by Denmark. Bob

Something just occured to me. In SC 1 it was usually the Allies that got to DOW Turkey first, giving them the strategic initiative. In SC 2 it will likely be the other way around. Although, as I write, I guess the Russians could do a pre-emptive Turkish invasion when Syria is invaded and Iraq joins the Axis? Perhaps that is the answer? Done correctly this would gain the Russians the far eastern and center city, and allow them to garrison fairly well, and also threaten Iraq. Anyway, I welcome the discussion. Bob

Terif, I’m thinking Turkey may not be totally fixed and welcome your comments. Not that Turkey needs to be an unassailable position for the Axis, but in my game with Blashy he was able to take the far eastern Turkish city in one turn and fairly easily using motorization II tanks and corps. If the Axis can do that, the Russians will have a hard time carrying on, and if not fixed, a ban on Axis Turkish invasions may be in order. In my Turkish campaign I was able to amphip over a Russian corp to the center Turkish city, and then another, which Blashy initially had tried to isolate with two tanks. What he did then was have his two tanks turn west toward Ankara to join up with two corps moving east, and eventually took out my Turkish corp, and moved another corp across the isthmus to fully concentrate on Ankara. I advanced on the Eastern city, where he went on the defensive. I haven’t looked at my latest turn, but IMO it is likely that Ankara will fall and the Turks surrender, as he has three airfleets around Istanbul in addition to the three corps and two tanks, so I just don’t see the Turks surviving another turn. Once they surrender he can start operating/moving east with a substantial force. IMO I put up an effective Turkish defense, with the only thing I could have done differently was to have motorization. But I don’t think that would have made a strategic difference, just allowed me to possibly take the eastern city and destroy another unit or two. But then he could have garrisoned that city a bit better too, as currently he has a no-tech Italian Army in there. Put a German Army in there, and it is doubtful that I could take the city. One possible solution might be that if Iraq actually joins the Axis and/or Syria is activated, is to have Turkey post some garrison corps southward, to reflect additional concern about military developments on that border. I also think the center city that is currently un-garrisoned needs a corp, as currently it can be taken by a paratroop. If Turkey falls IMO Blashy will have a much better chance than not of prevailing in the game, as my Russians are already stretched fairly thin,. Having an exposed Caucusses will make it that much more difficult. Terif, if your reading, your thoughts. We are still in the learning stages here, so if I’ve misread the situation I welcome being corrected, but if I’m correct or mostly correct, it would be good to hear your thoughts for future patches. Bob

In my game with Sombra, me Allied, I was able to buy back a destroyed UK, Mid East corp for 60 mpps, was that supposed to be corrected? I thought one change in 1.01/1.02 was that if a unit was lost in Egypt it couldn't be bought back for 60%, but maybe I read the updates wrong. And as long as we’re on Egypt, in another game my Axis opponent never left Tobruk, but I was attacking him relentlessly and eventually also took the Italian city to the west after some back-and-forth around that city, but no Italian unit ever went east of Tobruk, although an Italian navy ship may have early on. And then lo-and-behold, one turn my Commonwealth HQ and a Commonwealth corp showed up in Amman. Was that supposed to happen? I thought the trigger was the Axis approaching Alexandria? Bob

Yes, Egypt falls. FYI, I was able to buy back the destroyed Mid East corp for 60 mpps, was that supposed to be corrected? And as long as we’re on Egypt, in another game my Axis opponent never left Tobruk, but I was attacking him relentlessly and eventually took the Italian city to the west after some back-and-forth around that city, but no Italian unit ever went east of Tobruk, although an Italian navy ship may have. And then lo-and-behold, one turn the Commonwealth HQ and a Commonwealth corp showed up. Was that supposed to happen? I thought the trigger was the Axis approaching Alexandria? Anyway, in my game with Sombra the English will soon fight from the Home Islands only, as Cairo will fall next turn after the Commonwealth units are steamrolled, which is about all Winston has to report at the moment. Both the US and Russia reacted to the Axis presence in Egypt, but it wasn’t a big jump in readiness. Now that Sombra is back from the bunker in Berlin we’ll have to see what he comes up with. Bob

Ah, must have hit post my mistake. Here's what Sombra's e-mail said, "I will be in Berlin over the weekend coming back on Monday. Wow these Brits can run fast..." So, this could be the first time in SC history that an Axis player has felt compelled to actually, physically feel the need to head back to the bunker in Berlin to consult on game strategy. Personally, I believe it's going a bit far, but those are Sombra's words, and I'm sure he'll be glad to verify them. Bob

Yes, the Brits, after watching the fleet-of-foot Jesse Owens in the Berlin Olympics of 1936, and realizing that it's good to run fast when surrouned by Nazi, especially when they've changed from waving banners with Nazi slogans in a stadium, to waving guns, evacuated the Mid East. This means Sombra, anxious to implement his "Earl Gray" strategy must think twice, as the Brits have countered with their "Tea and Crumpets" strategy, which is what their doing, sipping tea while eating crumpets and enjoying the comforts of the Home Islands. Given how quickly the Frenchies caved in, it seemed necessary to exchange stale pita bread for crumpets, and strong Mid East coffee for smooth, hot tea. So, the Axis must try to determine how long the Brits gave up Egypt for the overcast of England, and if the Kreigsmaring can float enough boats to do the trick, especially with a reduced six hex range. And Sombra can verify this, his most recent e-mail said, and I quote,"

The Axis, in a continuingly obvious pattern of picking on Muslim nations, what with bribing Goddam Hussain, then attacking Syria, just DOW'ed Turkey. Of course, the only remaining non-Axis, Muslim nation in the region, Iran, became alarmed. He took the eastern city with two tanks and an army and Italian army, and Istanbul out west also fell, and the US entered. This finally accounts for his remaining armor, as only one panzer unit was showing itself, around Leningrad. And speaking of Leningrad, it finally succumbed to repeated combined attacks. Other Soviet units in the area pullback. Meanwhile, around England, Blashy tries to bait me into committing the RN near Scapa Flow. He sank a BB up there in port, but I refused to bite, and instead started hitting Brest again. And, in an exhibition of negligence, the next turn the RN loses another (5 strength) BB. This is what happened: Orders were issued by the Admiralty to pull that BB out. But then my own High Command, the better-half, issued the following orders: "It's time to take the dogs out." Being married 20 years, I quickly realized that the better half's orders needed to be acted upon first, and that was done. But in the confusion of orders between the Admiralty and the better-half High Command closer to home, well, the BB didn't sail. Axis subs made sure it visited the bottom quickly. But the RAF exacted some damage the next turn on a German BB, my bomber being so experienced now that it didn't suffer any damage, followed up by an attack by a fighter. The BB didn't get sunk, but must be fairly damaged. So, Intelligence reports the combined German/Italian navy is near England, but the Brits believe the combined RN/USN/RAF can handle them, not to mention that the USAF also needs to be factored in. Bob

Sombra is Axis, I'm Allied. Sombra executed an absolutely brilliant series of Poland/Benelux/France attacks, hitting Poland with measured force on turn 1 with a portion of his vaunted Wehrmacht, while operating the rest to the border of Benelux, which he hit on turn 2. Poland fell on turn 2, as did Benelux, and then he hit France. Needless to say the Frenchies were caught flat footed, as the Germans showed no mercy and kept pressing forward. In December 39 the French were saved by weather, but the Germans still kept up the pressure. France fell in March 1940, the earliest I've seen it done so far in SC 2. Now, Sombra said he was lucky, and to some degree that's true. He got good die rolls in Poland, and good weather out West. But the fact of the matter is that he executed his attacks with flawless timing and precision, so it's hat's off to him IMO, because if he hadn't crafted and executed the strategy that he did, and then put it into motion flawlessly, he wouldn't have been able to capitalize on the favorable situation when opportunity presented itself. That's about where we sit now, it's an early game. I hold Brest, but not for long I'm sure. With luck we'll get in a batch of turns this weekend, but not tomorrow, as I'm going to be watching some World Cup with friends at an authentic English Pub here in Seattle...assuming I can even get in the door. The news said the place was packed for the German / Costa Rica game earlier today. Bob

I have seven 1.01 (now 1.02) ladder games going now, which is about my limit. If I get an opening I'll keep you in mind and send you an e-mail. Bob

Besieged Leningrad still holds, absorbing blows by Goring’s flyboys, bombers and fighters, not to mention those vaunted Italian and Hungarian pilots. Meanwhile, my own Russian flyboys are hitting the Iraqi mine with no resistance. The first Winter looms with Blashy holding three or four of my Russian cities, as he also sets up a skirmish line across from the Russian mines. Out West the RN has pulled back from Brest, while the still neutral US naval command, in an ill timed show of force, tried to set up pickets near Spain to intercept the Italian navy, which had just punched through the Gibraltar port. President Roosevelt was extremely upset when he heard that this unilateral show of American resolve resulted in a 26 point increase in Franco’s readiness! I read the changes to the patch but had forgotten this, but experience being the best teacher, the Americans won’t make this mistake again. Meanwhile, in the Med, the Italians confirm that the English bomber that had been keeping an eye on things is the same one now seeing action over France, as an Italian corp poked his head out to take a look. The bomber was operated-out in a top secret operation in which a British corp was convoyed in, surrounded by the RN’s finest, in case they encountered the Italian navy, which they didn’t. Bob

Male, 48, CPA, Seattle WA.

Canuck; That's interesting, as my guess is the Allies threw a couple chits to Norway, similar but in reverse to trying to the bribe the Iraqis in the early game, so the 30 mpp per turn Iraq convoys starts.

Blashy kicked off his Barbarossa with Russian readiness around 70%, in July I believe, as I don’t think he wanted to take the chance that a late invasion would run mud and snow. IMO the Axis player will have to do this more often, otherwise he might not dig out the entrenched Russians before the weather turns. Blashy ran into anti-tank 3 and infantry weapons 3 corps in fully entrenched frontline cities, except for that northern Russian city near Finland that I abandoned, but only after I let the Axis sniff a level 1 infantry weapons corps with a BB, even though I was up to 3 and 3 at the time. What Stalin did was order his scientists away from their bunson burners and test tubes, and told them that if they didn’t reverse the order of their research that a gulag awaited them in Siberia. This got their attention! So they first researched intelligence, two chits, then three chits in infantry weapons and three in anti-tank. This is what Blashy can see at the moment, with remaining allocation of mpps between research and units a highly guarded State secret. He has taken several frontline cities, but only after having to dig out those borsch eating, vodka drinking fanatics, and take high losses doing so. The Finns joined, but against a Leningrad army at 3 IW and 3 AT, they don’t stand a chance. Blashy has moved numerous units and a bomber near Leningrad and is working on the entrenchment, while I have left one corp east of the city, which will make him swing around if he wants to fully isolate the city down to 5. Does Stalin have a counterstroke in mind if the Axis tries to flank me? Again, a State secret. In an interesting move that shows diplomatic acumen, Blashy invaded Syria, which piqued the interest of Goddamn Hussain’s rebels, moving Iraq into the Axis readiness column. Then, when the Iraq coup happened, Iraq fully joined the Axis, so the Axis is getting those mpps. Blashy can probably explain this better, but IMO it was an interesting, bloodless…and chitless way to activate Iraq that I have made note of. Of course US and Russian readiness went up, but getting Iraq in so cheaply is something to consider. Out west one poor Wehrmacht corp that thought the most fighting he would see would be with Madams of the French brothels, on how much to pay for services rendered and wine consumed, isn’t getting a moments rest. The RN is hitting them up to eight times a turn with BBs and CAs, then the RAF joins in, and then three RN carriers take target practice. I am finding that after the first few shore bombardments or carrier raids that damage received by the RN drops considerably, as experience rises. I would say four times in five the RN receives no damage now. So initial experience can be expensive, but with persistence…and the willingness to invest some mpps repairing, ships can become quite effective. If the Italians decide to foray into Atlantic now they will be bumping into experienced ship, plus I could take out the French ports, which I haven’t done yet, which would mean the Italians would have crap supply. The RN has expanded the shore bombardment campaign to include that other French city to the southeast, and Brussels, while the British bomber is gaining painless experience against the French mine every turn. Goring and his flyboys have not made an appearance out west yet. In the Med Blashy rules except for Gibralter and Malta, while US readiness is around 70% now. Unlike 1.0, the US can research at will, as there is no fear of invasion. I will also note that the six square range of amphib is something to keep in mind, as without amphib tech it severely limits the ability of the Allies to invade. It will take some thought and planning from now on, as if you look at the map many, actually most countries are out of range, meaning an island hopping type campaign will be required. Other items of note: Norway is still neutral, as is Spain, Vichy, Greece, Sweden, Turkey, Iran, Switzerland, etc. So it’s not a minor collecting game, or not yet at least. I continue to monitor Franco, who is too busy drinking sangria I guess, as his interest has been stuck at 51% for close to two years now. Bob

I agree with Fubarno, IMO I like the new element of variability and luck of SC 2. SC 1 was a great game, but eventually did get to be an exercise between cookie cutters, so it became stale. With that in mind I would actually like to see more not less variability in SC 2. I've been playing backgammon for years now, and in the long run the better player wins many more games than he loses, but it's those games where your buddy spins three doubles down the backstretch or others where odd things happen with stretches of good and bad luck that you remember, and then razz each other about it for days and weeks. Meanwhile the routine games fade from memory, blending into the background along with all the other routine games. Bob

The turn before Egypt surrendered a Commonwealth troop and HQ showed up. I put the Commonwealth HQ on transports but didn't get him to the arrows in time, as I had two other units there, whereas the corp got placed in Amman. When Egypt surrendered the corp in Amman disappeared, and I believe so did the HQ. Two questions/comments: 1) I can see where British units would surrender when Franch turns Vichy, but it seems anomolous that Commonwealth units esconced in Amman or comfortably heading away from the battlefield in transports would. 2) Had I got those Commonwealth untis to the arrows in time, would they have transited? Bob

You mean US, UK, and certain minor troops. My Free French unit transited just fine, as did an Australian corp that I evacuated before Egypt surrendered. Bob

If a unit is in a city that is totally surrounded by enemy units and/or enemy zones-of-control, and lets say the unit is down to supply 1 then it's destroyed. Does that unit now go back into the full cost build queue of available units, or is gone forever? In short, does a unit have to be able to trace back to a friendly capital to qualify to not be gone forever? Bob