Nidan1

Fionn: All your points are well made and well taken. However, when defining "terrorism" below, I think you might miss a point about how the nature of "terrorism" as a policy of nations and groups has changed over the last quarter century or so. "Terrorism is NOT an indiscriminate weapon when utilised by nation states. Whilst it is true that precisely who gets killed or injured is often rather random it is also true that when nation states engage in terrorism in order to display antagonism towards eachother or send some other message this terrorism is quite carefully metered." "Terrorism when ordered by nation states is most commonly a form of "limited war" akin to the sparring which nations used to engage in on their borders with possible belligerents." When you refer to the terrorism as ordered by "nation states" I would think that the heavy bombing of European and Asian cities during the second World War would qualify. It was indiscriminate in most cases, and while an argument could be made that industrial targets were being hit, Germany, Russia, and England dispersed their manufacturing plants, and therefore most bombs and rockets fell on civilian areas. After the Second World War, and during the Cold War, "Wars of National Liberation" and "Civil Wars" often included acts that could have come under the definition of terrorism. The only difference was the fact that most underground groups performed their acts against Government establishments or against the military. The Haganah,the Palmach, Fidel Castro, the Viet Minh and Viet Cong, could all be labeled as "terrorists" but they, for the most part did not direct their acts specifically at civilians or other non combatants. The kind of terror we have seen in the last 20 years or so, and primarily by Islamic groups of one sort or another, has been directed at civilians. This is where the definition of "terrorism" IMO has changed considerably. There is no real answer to this phenomenon, and there is no concrete "enemy" to strike back at. When people are willing to kill themselves, and take others with them, just to make a point, you are dealing with real danger. And, when a third party state, such as Iraq can use these groups as surrogates to attack places they could otherwise not do militarily, this creates a real and unique threat to the West, otherwise not seen. The unfortunate circumstance vis a vis the US and Iraq, is that the US has really offered no concrete proof that Saddam is in bed with Al Qaida or that he has weapons of terror. I would think that because George W. is making such a big issue of this, that he knows something that he is not telling us. I really hope that is the case. I dont want to have to live through another "Gulf of Tonkin" charade, just so my country can go to war with someone. The real danger Iraq poses IMO and I hope it will find vindication, is that Saddam is supporting and supplying twerrorsts groups, and he plans to give them biological or chemical agents that can be man portable and released in civilian centers in the West or elsewhere. That is my fear, and maybe by preempting him by attacking, we could head off such a horrible event. [ January 04, 2003, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

Sheesh... Stay away half a day, and all sorts of untoward events take place, not only do we have to listen to the "down under" contingent boasting about the warm weather and "Crikey" on that desolate (bereft of any significant life forms) of all continents, but now we have an SSN from the "Sunshine State", better known as "heavens waiting room", babbling about "going to the beach, and working on his tan", how tiring...might have been more significant had Miami lived up to its hype and beaten the seed pods, oh well, too much sun and fun saps your strength. However, since Joe has accepted him perhaps he will invite all of us down for cocktails and dinner. Y2K can bring a special wine if she likes. Edited to say: Vadr can send me a setup, and after slapping him around with a dead fish, I'll toss him aside, and the rest of you can have at him. [ January 04, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

Originally posted by dalem: Imported? you mean like Norway rats, or Japanese beetles, I thought there were laws against that. [ January 03, 2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

It was the petroleum jelly on your face that did it.</font>

The Russians had special recon troops, the name escapes me now, but they were the predecessors of the Spetznatz.

And the crowd goes wild...</font>

Fionn: Do you honestly believe that Iraq does not pose a threat to the world in general, maybe not the United States in particular? I am not naive enough to think that the Iraqis will be invading the East Coast anytime soon, but they have the wherewithall to send their surrogates, namely the Jihadists to America and other places to create havoc and murder. It is the fault of all the Western nations that an alternative to the dependence on fossil fuels has not been found. The entire world ecomony revolves around the commerce and trade dependent on oil and its by products. Therefore a basic by product of any dealings with Iraq either peaceful or military, would have the need for oil as a major factor. Why should anyone in the world tolerate Saddam controlling that much influence over such an important resource, when he has shown nothing by comtempt for the rest of us? If that was the only danger he poses, it would be sufficient, but he does posess chemical and biological weapons, and has shown a willingness to use them. Whether or not he has enough technology to disperse them reliably outside of the borders of Iraq is one thing I personally do not want to find out. Nor do I doubt that he would give some forms of these weapons to others. You refer to the fact, that American foreign policy should not be so blunt, and maybe it should take the time to understand the undercurrents and factors which have lead to the situations that we are in. I ask you, do we have the time now, especially in reference to Iraq? Saddam was our big pal, when he was fighting the Iranians, and everyone supplied him with weapons and technology. We are now reaping the whirlwind of those policies, and I dont think we have time to delay any longer. America's sabre rattling may be just that, maybe we can intimidate him enough to finally see the light. His past behavior does not indicate that that may be the case. I was not painting the rest of the citizens of the world as carictatures when I referred to the continued influx of immigrants into America. World populations are continually shifting in those areas where people can freely move, and people still seek to come here from all over to seek opportunity. It is one of the things that keeps America on the minds of the rest of the world, whether in a good way or a bad way. There are some places in the world where people have no hope, and they see the US as a place of hope. I am not closed minded when it comes to recognizing that other people have opinions and beliefs that may differ from mine. I have lived long enough to be exposed to many things, and I do recognize that consensus is ofttimes difficult to mananage when very emotional topics are discussed. I do believe that a Global society, while it may someday come to pass, is a long way off. The dangers presented by rogue states such as Iraq, NK and some may say the US, effect all of us. However, we have not yet reached the point where we can openly and without deceit, negotiate with each other to resolve differences effectively. I am open to all opinions, I listen, and based on my life experience, and what I have learned of world history, I try will balance all of this in my mind. I believe that in light of present world circumstances, and the varied national interests of all parties that have direct involvement, military action against Iraq is a viable option for the world to take, or if the US chooses to go it alone, for America to take.

Other countries hate the US because we appear immature and impulsive compared to other countries in the world, that are "older" and "more mature". Why is it then that people from all over the world still want to come to the US? No society is perfect, and "Globalism" is a product of American liberals, and if history has taught us anything, its that "National Interests" usually take precedent when a country forms its policies. What is wrong with America caring about its national interests? Every other country does, why is it that America can't? The American Government sends billions of its taxpayers money all over the world. To friends and foes alike, in their times of need. Perhaps some of that money is not well spent, nor does it always fall in line with our "national interests" The American military is not in business to be "Peacekeepers". All countries, America included, have military forces for one reason and one reason only. The American military is in business to protect American citizens, and to prevent outside military or terrorist organizations from threatening our way of life. In other words, to close with and destroy any enemy of America. They are not trained to be "cops" or "nation builders". They are trained to kill and destroy in the most efficient ways possible. Once again the "peacekeeper" role was foisted upon the American Military by liberals and people who have no connection with the armed forces, a la Clinton. We live in a new world now, although our current problems still stem from centuries old "National/ethnic disagreements" Bin Laden and his ilk are driven by one thing, and concern for the Palistinians isnt it. They want what all demegogues and tyrants have wanted throughout human history. They want domination and power, they want to sit back in comfort while the rest of the world does their bidding. Like us or not, America is the only country, thats willing and capable to stand up to these people. Sure we will make mistakes, but we will prevail.

Noba you stuttering, spittle throwing, slack-jaw, where is my RE-MATCH? Boo a word of advice from your disrespectful Squire, don't be taken in by this RS_Corporal character. Remember what happened the last time a Corporal from Austria appeared on the scene. Now if he claimed to be from Australia, then I would not worry. (note the similarities), I would also be as concerned if he were from Brazil. Next thing you know he(she) will be posting in some unreadable form of Scotch or Gaelic, to further ingratiate him(her)self on the MBT , in fact he may be another incarnation of Flamin Aussie Jeff . Be very careful if he sends you a trench warfare set up. Edited to say "befehl ist befehl" [ January 03, 2003, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

Kin ye name a single Noo Yorker tha' as contributed anythun back tae tha world ootside haes ain navel laddie? (An' noo, Liza Minelli didnae count.) An' engineer? A poet? A sodjer? Wha' didnye jus' menshun all tha Nobel Prize Winners tha cam frae Noo York? Was at a Noo Yorker tha invainted anaesthesia? Tha steam aingine? Tha telephone? Pneumatic-tyre? Television? Thermos flask? Kaliedoscope? Vacuum? Colour photo? Steam hammer? Antiseptics? Penicillin? Radar? Noo, ye festerin' clump o' badger dung. At were tha Scots. Di' ye knoo tha' more Scots hae won tha VC than Noo Yorkers hae won tha MoH? A Noo Yorker ain a skirt as jus' tha, eh? Ah bet ye suspaicted ye were a bog-braithed pillock tho, eh? At's guid tae ha' at confirrmed agin.</font>

Why anyone would boast of being a Scot is beyond me. The young'un probably would have done better just admitting he was a Kiwi, and let it go at that. Bad enough Flamin AJ continues to try his hand at those unintelligable, driviling Scottish accented posts, we now have a young "braveheart" in skirts "come a challenging" Of course OSGF is willing to give him a go, figuring "how gud could the wee lad bae, after awl I baen a playin this gammie a long taeme, Jimmy?" The real reason being he is tired of consistantly losing to everyone , is that it you Flaming puddle of Spaniel drool? At least I admit I suck at the game, senselessly trouncing young lads to prop one's floundering feeling of self worth is hardly the way to start off the new year. [ January 01, 2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

<font size=-1>Check your mail, you reprobate.</font></font>

<font size=-1>Check your mail, you reprobate.</font></font>

Originally posted by Noba: How is this for specific you Aussie dustbin, you owe me a re-match, and for the love of Jehosephat, learn to spell will ya!! [ December 30, 2002, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

It will be winging it's way to you as soon as they let me out of work. Sadly, the boss went home but was canny enough to give me the key to lock up. So I'm stuck here till 5:00.</font>

Its only made silly by gits like you. How about a rousing SOD OFF!!! IS THAT SILLY ENOUGH FOR YOU?

In order to prevent the "cricketeers" from the other English speaking lands from highjacking this thread, and turning it into a shouting match of unintelligible babble in heavily accented, pommie, kiwi, and aussie English. I hereby announce that both the Giants and the Jets are in the playoffs. Although both teams play in a stadium in New Jersey, they are considered the New York teams, figure that one out will ya? Noba , you promised a re-match man, too busy washing the poopie stains out of your cricket shorts, are ye? Send me a set up, something from 1941-42, I'll take the Krauts again, 1000-1500 pts. Do it quickly laddie!!!

Although I have never even contemplated visiting. or worse yet living in that Godforsaken area of the contiguous United States. I now have an even better reason to avoid it like a plague, A drive by, compliments of the Justicar!! Western Ozstraylia is looking really nice about now.

You will anyway, when we on the right side of the world are all asleep, you Aussie git.

The Philadephia Eagles are defeated in overtime!!! URRAH!!! URRAH!!!!

Any of you clods who have the audacity to root for the Philadelphia Eagles are scum. All of you are scum anyway, even if you dont know who the Philadelphia Eagles are. OSGF sounds more like a Sopwith Camel going down in flames, [ December 28, 2002, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

Post Christmas Gamey Updates: Speedy handed me a major defeat in "Cracking the Case Hardened Steel Egg" a scenario in which 40 some odd Soviet assault guns were picked off one by one by his Tiger tanks, while trying to negotiate a moonscape at two miles per hour. We are now in the midst of a Stalingrad battle, I am getting my revenge, as his grey-green slugs slither along in full view of my Maxims. Panzer Leader: Has awakened early from his winter hibernation just in time to see his Red Army forces in full retreat in the face of my unstoppable onslaught. AJ : His forces are cowering in terror as my 6th Army supermen methodically flush them out of their hidey holes, in my relentless pursuit of my victory locations. Noba: Crushed me like a bug, but I let him win, Aussies have such an inferiority complex, they long to be like American cowboy's, I want him to feel good about himself. Nestor: Thinks he can stop Von Manstein's relief forces, but he is mistaken, he does seem to have an unlimited suppply of T-34s though. Gaylord: Has disappeared again. Boo: My liege managed a tactical victory in a battle that was obviously rigged in his favor. My reverse slope defense sucked him in to a killing bag of destruction that had his overconfident Fritzes running for their lives. We are now starting a new battle, in which I have all the ubertanks, too bad for him.

You're all a bunch of witless clogs, the sun shines everywhere on earth, except in those places where its nighttime, or in Norway where it never shines, Finnland neither.

I can wait.....Merry Christmas.

I vote we send Seanachai to another Universe, where all communication is done by thought. He would slowly die of loneliness.