MajorTaktik

I have embedded answers below. SPAs (Hummels, Wespes, Sextons, Priests, and HMCM8s) are light tanks, medium tanks, or excluded? *ANS: SPAs would be considered tanks. It is up to the player to pick them or not. They are cheap, but in an armored fight, they may not be so useful. I am assuming mortars and MGs are OK if they come with an infantry company, but can they be purchased separately? *ANS: Mortars and MGs must be organic to the larger formation and can not be taken seperately. Can three platoons be purchased in place of one company? *ANS: Yes, plts can be purchased seperately, but no more than two companies worth. Do you mean to exclude all the following light vehicles? Infantry carriers with squad capacity: M3 series, M5 series, SPW 251/1, Ram Kangaroo, truck, Gun Tractor *ANS: These can be included under light vehicles, but they count against the 8-10 limit. Scout cars: M3A1, M20, T8, Humbar, White, MMG carrier, Universal carrier, Stuart Kangaroo, SPW 250/1 *ANS: These can be included under light vehicles, but they count against the 8-10 limit. Armoured cars: PSW 234/1 *ANS: It can be included under light vehicles, but they count against the 8-10 limit. Other Unarmoured vehicles: Jeep, Kubelwagen, *ANS: These can be included under light vehicles, but they count against the 8-10 limit. German Assault HTs: SPW 250/8, SPW 251/9 *ANS: These can be included under light vehicles, but they count against the 8-10 limit. Flame and Mortar vehicles: OK, OK, one would need a truly evil mind to figure out a viable use for these in an armor battle. *ANS: These can be included under light vehicles, but they count against the 8-10 limit. It seems to me that the first 3 catagories (infantry carriers, scout cars, armoured cars) would be useful in the type of battle you have in mind, if kept within the 10 light vehicle max. *Comment: Correct, you can have the above three categories of vehicles, but they will count under the light vehicle/light tank limit of 8-10. Sorry things were not spelled out completely. The "spirit" of the battle was clear in my mind, but I see now that I needed to fill in more details. Treeburst, can you make sense of this, or do you want me to provide these clarifications in a different format?

Also, it looks as if I WON'T be going away this July, so I will be able to get some purchases in for this weekend. At least the first two.

Treeburst, Here is an amendment to my scenario to clear up a few things. - 8-10 light tanks/vehicles will be restricted to: Greyhounds, Stuarts, Chaffees, Daimlers, Pumas, Lynx, psw 234/3, spw 250/9 - No Ostwinds or Wirbelwinds - No planes.

When I said, light tanks/vehicles, I meant it to represent a recon element to the main force of tanks, not WW and OS. Not sure, if I said no planes, but incase I didn't, then no planes are allowed in my scenario. I will compile a complete list and post it for Treeburst so things will be clearer.

How about the New England area? Surely, someone can preview CMBB in the North-East? Pretty, please?

AT weapons, meaning ATGs only or other anti-tank capable weapon-systems? Are engagement priority procedures finally available? That is to say, will the hypothetical TD sitting on a hilltop waiting for an enemy tank about to round a grove of trees 200 meters away hold its fire and not engage a squad of infantry running in the distance 1000 meters away? From what I have heard, CAs only limit the area a unit will engage targets, not limit what types of targets it will engage.

Hmmm. The 20th is a no go for me. At that time, I will be sweating buckets and suffering from TAC-ATTACKS. I leave the 12th and will be gone till the 27th. Sorry if this slows things for my first opponents, namely Broken and GravesRegistration. Craig

Remove the HULLDOWN command, please. IMO, it should be a skill of the player and not be automated for someone. It is an artificial way of giving someone a skill that they might not be so good at. If they can't find a good HULLDOWN spot, then too bad. CM is the ultimate in rewarding good tactics and punishing bad. Will there now be no reward for finding superior HD spots with good LOS on your own? If the AI does this for you, then where is the sense of satisfaction when one or your tanks brews an enemy tank. I will think, "Damn, that wasn't me that found that spot, but the AI". And if an enemy tank, HD with great LOS brews one of my tanks, I will think, "Hmmm. It is nice that the AI found such great spot for my opponent. I wonder if he could have done that for himself?" Just my take on the HD command. Craig

Excellent! You Da' man, Treeburst! Hopefully, I will have the purchases for Swamp's Format done soon so Broken and I can get things started before I have to leave for two weeks mid-July (though it is not definate, yet). It may take a while, though, for this first purchase. I am puzzled how to fit the tanks I want within 1000 points. Damn! Brits, too. I have no luck with Brits WOOOHOOOOO! Seriously, the formats look great! It will be loads of fun playing these games.

Sorry, Wreck and anyone else that is uncertain about my battle format. It is intended to be an armor battle obviously. Heavy/Light TFs meeting on a big and relatively open map. The setup zones are small areas in opposite corners of the map. Therefore, expect lots of manuever. Also, the flags are small and there are only three of them. Again, the purpose is to feature tank on tank tactics that is why there are no emplaced guns and limited hand-held AT; 1 per plt. Also, is everyone picking forces for all 7 games at once, or only a few at a time so the games can be played staggered? What were you expecting, Treeburst? Did you want them all at once or can we send them when that particular game starts? I will only be able to play 2-3 of these games at a time max, right now, so I would like the ability to adapt to things as the games come along and not be tied to purchases done now when I may want to change things up a bit later on. Craig

Dont you know! All Hollywood German soldiers are deaf, dumb and blind! LOL Seriously, IMHO, the attack into that town was fundementally wrong on many levels and was a staged showcase for Tom Hanks and his para-boys. For the most part, Hollywood war movies provide sad renditions of the German solider. To me, that whole battle was just a bunch of spliced scenes showing Germans doing stupid things and Americans doing brilliant things. Rushing to take a bridge or not, there are many scenes that illustrate how NOT to attack a town. Also, the KG moving in to attack the town during daylight hours on the Western Front may be the most unrealistic thing of all! JABOS!

Hello Treeburst, My ME is a little different, in that we setup in opposite corners of the map. I guess by knowing this a player would want maybe more transport capability when they purchase? But, my purchase rules state no more than two companies of infantry, so it may be clear the ME is intended to feature tanks. Aki: I agree completely, that there should be no editiing of ammo, ratings, etc. Only deleting of support weapons and stuff from the formations. Craig

Hello Treeburst, I say #1 would be my first choice. I guess I am not smart enough to see a huge advantage in knowing the exact setup zone areas and flag placement in these formats. The only time a designer could take advantage of this would be when purchasing, yes? This would be the only time he "knows" what to expect? After that, in setup, both players see the map for the first time. Though the formats are detailed and specific in a lot of areas, I think the setup zones and flag placements were pretty generic, yes? Am I missing some hidden advantage? If there is an obvious advantage I am missing, then #2 would be a solution. Craig

Aaah, what I meant to say is by only allowing 1000 points for armor, I am "forced" to get different things with the other 2000 points . It will be the most allowable artillery points, too, in a long time. Should be loads of fun Craig

Wow! Fantastic, Treeburst! Once again, thanks for putting this together. I think its going to be a blast. I can't wait to meet all these great CM players in some real cool games. Off to the editor to see what can be done with these Brits under Swamp's game format. Hmmm. I havn't played with this much enforced infantry points in a long time What to do with all those Crunchies??? It will be nice to meet you Broken! in the first game of the tourney. Going to be fun! Craig

--------------------------------------- BTW why do you think the spotting was unrealistic? Was the tank buttoned? in which case it is unusual, but if unbuttoned, whats the issue? Don't forget that, having said 'Gunner traverse left, Enemy TD 800m 5 o'clock on ridge', the commander is back to searching and looking elsewhere. The next bit is 'Driver - right turn, full speed'. Followed by 'Oh **** - gunnner traverse right - Hellcat 400m, now would be good!' ----------------------------------------------- Sailor Malan, Have you ever played Panzer Elite? Based on your example, I would doubt it, because it is impossible to be riding UNBOTTONED in your tank at top speed in PE and spot a target 800+ meters away. Going to zoom with binocs, makes it even more impossible (can something be more impossible?) . Then telling your gunner to traverse while on the move, lay sights on said 800 meter target, acquire, and lay a perfect 1 shot kill in on it is asking the impossible. I use PE here as a comparison because I think it provides for an accurate model what it would be like in a WWII tank. Since it is my guess that none of us were tankers in WWII (excluding past-lives), try and picture a similar example in real-life. Get in an SUV, get up to about 20 MPH, have some one tell you "pick out that car 800 meters away to your left (imagine 8 football fields in line for a good "feel" what it would be like), through this rifle sight and in a no less than 5 seconds, I want a one shot hit!". Of course, add intervening terrain and such to the mix while you try to spot it and the stress of combat. I think this hypothetical shot would be hard to pull off. Again, it is not this one instance that Scipio mentions. I often see these crazy shots. Because we miss 200 meter shots at broadside stationary tanks does not logically follow that we should thus be able to make impossible shots as compensation. Craig

Since it was against me, I must jump in I have to agree completely with what Scipio says based on my experience. Those shots were ridiculous. And it happens A LOT in my experience, so I can't just chalk it up to fog of war or vagaries or whatever you want to call it. God, forbid, but yes, CM must change this aspect of tank combat because it is flawed. Maybe because I play lots and lots of armor battles and pure tank against tank battles, so I see these insane shots quite often. I am sure it happened in WWII, but definately not with the frequency I see in CM. I am sure some people will have accounts where SGT Fritz made this shot against this T34 and so on, but I have read a lot too, and I have not seen these instances. On the contrary, almost everthing I read about WWII tank combat stressed dont bother wasting ammo trying to hit something while moving. As a comparison, if anyone plays Panzer Elite, try hitting while moving fast. Not possible. PE is rough around the edges but it is a nice little tank sim and replicates tank combat well. The shots made in CM by moving targets would be impossible in PE. Also, if you happen to play Steel Beasts, try the same type of shots. Even with LRF and Stabilization, and all the bells and whistles, it is hard to do. I understand CM is not a tank sim, but moving while firing accuracy is within their power to fix, just as undermodeld MGs are. Spotting is another issure that must be fixed. Tanks pick up other tanks at extreme ranges too easily, especially when the acquiring tank is moving. That said, I now must suspect Scipio's MKIV was really a disguised M1A2 SEP. Nice shooting Pete! Anyway, just my 2 cents. -Craig

Hello Treeburst, Thanks for all the hard work! Will we be playing all seven games at once? If indeed this was the plan, then I think it might be better to play in batches of 2-3 games. The quality of play against these tough customers requires more attention, especially if AARs are expected. I would like to hear what the others think. I also have other games going at this time and I don't want to just stop them. That would not be cool or respectful to my current opponents. So, by playing 7 new games in addition to my current games, I may begin to wear down . Yes, it is hard to imagine, but there can be a point where I play TOO much CM . However, if the other guys want to play all seven at once, then I will deal with it Craig

Hello Treeburst, Could you give an example of the format for the match-ups? I am not exactly clear who will play who, how many times and in what battle. Any kind of example would be nice to illustrate how it will pan out. Also, not sure how you will determine match-ups, but I would not like to play Aki, but rather some different opponents. LOL Nothing against my old Finnish friend, just that we know each other well and have played a bunch of games together. I was hoping to play different players and make some new friends If this is unacceptable and we all must follow draws from a hat, then no worries. I thought I would ask anyways. Perhaps some of the other guys have played each other a lot too and would like to branch out, so to speak. Aki, I know you didn't want to see my ugly mug in this, either. We torment each other enough in different battlefields Craig

Hello Treeburst, My vehicle catagory is taken care of in my special purchase rules, where I state only 8-10 light tanks/AFVs allowed. I didn't have a % for any of the catagories, I believe. Craig

I will play Allies in 6 games if there are no objections. Craig

What Aki, The Mad Finn, is really saying, is that he is returning to visit his kinfolk, deep in the ancestral forests of Northern Finland. For you see, Aki is part Troll and consorts with wood spirits. How else can you explain the way his infantry fights in the deep depths of the woods? They vanish like mist when you try to locate them, but then appear in the place you least expect them, howling like demons, tearing your troops to shreds. And if you look close, you will see trolls mixed in with his troops, wielding half a tree in each hand, bashing your grunts into pulp, but then you blink and they are gone. All that is left are your troops routing and fleeing in terror, while those left dead are quickly consumed by the creeping undergrowth. LOL I can't wait to play Aki when he has his Finns in CMBB. I hope there are settings for very, very rugged, very, very marshy, very, very wooded troll terrain Hehehe.

I will also be away from July 12th to July 27th. Craig

Hello Fionn, 90% of the Ladder games I play, some rule set or other is used to limit super heavy armor/arty. Those times unlimited purchases were used, it was either not at my suggestion, or against a long time opponent/friend where we both knew what to expect going in and there were no Cheezy surprises unleashed. Though, Scipio scared me a few armor battles ago when I encountered veteran KTs and JTs on a very open, very big map with wonderful Tiger Perches It wasn't expected, but Pete's a friend and honorable fellow, so I didn't feel cheated at all . However, I did gripe somewhat Also, in all the ladder games I've played (few in comparison to some of the fellows out there), I used GJ only once. Never used FJ or VG in a Ladder QB. The vast majority of the time, I use basic rifle infantry, but sometimes I go exotic and use Heer motorized rifle . But that isn't often because I play the Allies a lot. Once again, its almost always American rifle infantry. Never used Gliders or Paras in a Ladder QB game. Concerning arty, I use Scipio's arty rules almost exclusively. They are more involved than other rule sets, but they virtually eliminate arty duels and having to always face 150/155. Before Scipio's arty rules came out, I would house rule arty restrictions (ex: no more than 400 points, nothing bigger than 120mm). The new opponents I play in ladder QBs tend to use VG, FJ, Brit AB and American AB. However, thankfully Scipio's arty rules are getting better known, so arty imbalances are few and far between now when using this rule set. I guess I am saying in my comparatively limited experience, I seldom play unlimited purchases, and those times I do, it is against an opponent that is a respected friend. I can not speak for the hundreds of other players on the ladders, obviously, so perhaps the unlimited purchase QB ladder game is a common occurence. But it is my bet the good players make those who use super heavy armor and artillery pay for relying on those material crutches. No doubt there are lots of ladder players that frequently max out on the best stuff, but in turn, the ladder players I gravitate towards are purists like myself and enjoy basic OOBs. We are both ladder players, because what commander doesn't like his victories recognized, but also historical players, because like myself, they have no doubt studied history and war gamed for a few decades. Craig

____________________________________________________________________ Attack/defend or meeting? Meeting ____________________________________________________________________ MEETING ONLY Number of flags: 3 Flag value: 100 Flag spacing on centerline: 550 Force Points: 3000 ____________________________________________________________________ Map Dimensions, frontline: 1440 (read this as height in editor) depth: 3040 (read this as width in editor) Special: Setup zones should be in opposite corners of the map in roughly 500x500 areas Month: March, 45 Time Of Day: Day Weather: Clear Ground Conditions: Dry Game Length: 40 Map Type: Farmland Tree coverage: Moderate Hilliness: Small ____________________________________________________________________ Established Force Purchase Ruleset (can be none): Panther 76 (see special arty rules) Allied FORCE: Basic rifle German FORCE: Basic rifle and/or Panzergrenadier FORCE known to enemy? No Allied Infantry % : See special purchase rules Support % : See special purchase rules Vehicle % : See special purchase rules Armor % : See special purchase rules Artillery % : See special purchase rules Fortifications % : 0% Axis Infantry % : See special purchase rules Support % : See special purchase rules Vehicle % : See special purchase rules Armor % : See special purchase rules Artillery % : See special purchase rules Fortifications % : 0% ___________________________________________________________________ FORCE PURCHASE EXCLUSIONS, LIMITATIONS, SPECIAL RULES 1) no emplaced guns, meaning no ATG, guns, pupschen, flak, etc... 2) Max two companies infantry 3) Max 1 hand held AT (schrecks, piat, zooks) per plt, thus a Max of 6 4) Max two 81mm FOs 5) Max two plts light tanks/vehicles (8-10 light AFVs/ACs/HTs) 6) Rest of the points spent on MBTs/TDs/AGs 7) No flaktrucks 8) FORCE TYPE fudge limit: 0% 9) force editing limitations: unlimited 10) troop quality restrictions: Regular to Crack 11) No aircraft 12) ANTI-CHEEEZZZ: Artillery can not be dumped in the setup zones for first 5 turns. Scenario Note: This is an armored battle. Less infantry is acceptable, but the max must be observed. Hopefully, the map will be nice tank country. Though infantry will play a much lesser role than usual, they can still be effectively used as security, AT ambushes and extra eyes for the TCs. The map is big so it is a good idea to mount infantry right off the bat. __________________________________________________________________ Major Taktik