Steiner14

This raises a question i have for a long time: a really strong oponent, like Russia or China, would first knock out the GPS satellites. Why is so much (to my knowledge the whole precise target navigtion) built on the functionality of one system?

@Panzer76 A fanboyish behaviour would be based on feelings, not on facts. In contrast to the "reviewer" i named certain hard facts where CMx1 already shines - not one of these important aspects was mentioned by the reviewer. So either they disappeared in the new engine, which would turn the beta-testers into liars, inventing things that are not there, or the reviewer simply has no clue, what are important aspects for a realistic tactical wargame.

Don't you understand what the problem is? It doesn't matter how the random-generator is built up, if it's results can't be exactly defined and controlled. If it's determinism lies in a clock-counter or in a complex algorithm doesn't matter. If the coder calls a normal rand()-function he get's a unpredictable return value and that turns it from the important functional point of view into a non-deterministic function! Even if the result is deterministic in depth, it is from the functional point of view for the coder non-deterministic which forces him not only to work with the input-data, but also with the results of the non-deterministic functions. I think we can stop the discussion, since it is already clear, that it could not be implemented easily and will not be implemented at least in CMSF no matter, if other programs have it or not.

@seel38 Look at the Ardennen-Offensive. Or the defence of Berlin. Operationally not very exciting, but tactically... Same for US-platoon. The USAF can't be everywhere. And maybe it is your platoon, that just has no air-cover at this very certain hour? In the big view, i share your opinion. The theatre is not that exciting for me, too. But if we look at the small tactical aspects, it can be very tough for US-forces. Just like for the Syrians. That this may be not represetative, who cares? Didn't we all like to play with Tigers everywhere, when only LAH and Das Reich had a few? Therefore i wouldn't overestimate the strategical/operational odds as impact on the game experience. And what you learn now in CMSF, will give you an advantage over CMx2 newbies, learning CMx2 with the WWII game... That advantage could be around one year. So go and buy CMSF! It will not only bring us closer and faster to the WWII game, it will make you a better CMx2-WWII gamer.

@USF Jaguar Thank'S a lot, mister. That was the only point in the review, that confused me. And to write such a sentence in a review, while not writing about the behaviour of the pixeltruppen, that is dependent on the orders they receive, but instead trying to create at the reader the impression, the tac-AI were simply to stupid to react to incoming fire, IMO is - at best - stupid. Now i also don't understand why BFC gives a preview out to such idiots. Yes idiots. In germnan we have the saying "Perlen vor die Säue werfen" (thrwoing pearls into a mass of pigs). And it just fits. Where on earth are we living, that a company, that produces a manual that has the right to be called a manual, is being criziced for that? Or that the reviewer complains about jeeps without passengers - while not mentioning the highly sophisiticated spotting system? In CMx1 it was a problem, that the passengers of vehicles were identified, when the vehicle was identified. Maybe this is something that has been even improved - and this reviewer is capable to turn it into an negative aspect? Reading this "review" again and with all the good and valid aspects of CM-players here, i find this review extremely ignorant. A reviewer should have the possibility to differentiate between his very personal tastes and the objective judgement about realism or modelling realism. @Cameroon Very true and because there is hot iron flying through the air. So jumping up and running around is something a RTS-player may expect, but nevertheless it's wrong. This reviewer once again turns a obviously correct behaviour into a negative aspect... The more i think about it, the more incredible this "review" gets.

A strange review. On one hand a tutorial is missing, because the game is so hard to learn, the first missions in the campaign are hard, too - and on the other hand the AI is way to passive? Could it be, it is the reviewer, that just expects usual gamey and stupid behaviour of the AI and is confused, since CM acts differently? Hell, what a stupid enemy! He kills my troops but doesn't move out of his cover? But my troops die anyway. Phew! Sounds strange indeed. I thought there are orders to move cautiously that lead to search cover under incoming fire? And the part about the arty barrage, where the reviewer expects the pixeltruppen starting to run around like startled chicken is also quite funny. Funny that he criticizes that no plates are falling off the vehicles, when hit - but doesn't mention the wonderful CM-penetration and damage system? If you have never played CM, would you tell about this, or about the important aspects of realism? And he doesn't even mention, that the real CM-fun is, to play against human oponents. He obviously only played the AI. IMO the priorities of the reviewer are very strange and seem to fit more into the playstation-category.

No one would create a non-deterministic random number generator for a game that is supposed to be multi-player.</font>

No, Steve gave the answer what is necessary because the game-engine is not deterministic: the whole data-stream about the action in the field has to be recorded for reproducable results. If the calculations are nondeterministic, it is not sufficient to store the seed, you need to store the result too and inject the result into the engine as if the result was calculated online.

@MHertough That's not enough, if the game engine is not built up deterministic. Think of any input data, i.e. move object X to location Y. This means only a quite small amount of data is needed to transport, but the game engine does not need to react deterministic to it. What if the command and control system "layer" introduces some kind of nondeterministic delay (i.e. random, fuzzy logic), before the movement starts and is calcultated? Two identical inputs will deliver different results. And what do we know about the physics engine? Is it built up deterministic or does it model the certain inconsistencies in surface with nondeterministic processes? What about a ricochet: is the reflection angle always identical to the entry angle or is some kind of "randomness" introduced? Or the penetration algo. One great thing in CM always was the unpredictable but realistical results. So i think we should believe Steve , if he says, that the only solution they found was a too high stress on certain hardware parts. Things will develop and maybe in a few months computer power and great sales numbers will make them rethink their position and integrate it? Who knows. @Kineas Exactly. That's the point. [ July 20, 2007, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ]

Given the random generator alone would be the problem, it already depends totally on the random-function that is used, which (nondeterministic) factors are used for the calculation and for what the calculation is needed. And don't forget, that CMx2 is a highly time-dependent application. So a lot of calculations are definately based on some kind of internal time and since it was not developed as a hard-realtime application and is not running in a realtime-environment on a realtime OS, things are just not that deterministic as you think. You can start two identical Windows computers with identical software and there comes the point, where one clock is one microtick faster than on the other computer that causes a macrotick and from that point on, they develop completely differently and after a certain amount of time they have completely different internal states. Multitasking and multithreading systems are highly nondeterministic.

But by far not deterministic enough for game-replay. Think of the tremendously complex and non-deterministic cache, the register contents, the differing clock and clock-drifts and last but not least, the highly non-deterministic scheduler with non-deterministic c-tasks, sempaphores and so on. Simply impossible. It's difficult enough to build a deterministic hard-realtime system.

Hopefully it is in. Could be one of the surprises, they are keeping back until the official release date.

No, i will not go to the screenshot galleries, to find readable pictures to the text. Sorry, but a PDF with illustrating screenshots, where the text in the pics is not readable, does not look very professional. It's up to you, what you do with the info but recommending to visit a screenshot gallery is not really user-friendly. Checking before plublishing and correcting such errors imo is much better.

Section5 PDF shows still unreadable text in the pictures.

Andrew, the explanation makes sense. So i'm looking forward to your review...

Bump.

"...one of the better wargames..."??? CM and one of the better and not "one of the best" or "maybe the best" wargame this year?! And the preview also reflects not at all the greatness and unreached realism, fun and thrill of the CM-concept. If i wouldn't know CM, this review would not make me take a second look at CMSF.

Interesting, but the pics have a too low resolution to be readable.

Is the battle type (attk/dfnd/ME) displayed on the interface again? I hope not, since this gave away too much information to the players.

Is it possible, to let the player decide for option 1 or 2? I.e. after a total vic -> you have to decide fast: hold position or persuade the enemy and attack further? Can campaigns between battles have their own textual descriptions, or are only the scenario briefings/descriptions used? [ July 11, 2007, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ]

What are the minimum bandwidth specs for TCP/IP connection for the realtime mode in average sized scenarios? I doubt that an analog modem connection is sufficient?

Now i understand, why the development of the game took 4 years... Soviet labour morale!

Probably a little later? Great.

I found no info if and when CMSF will be available in stores in Germany?

You should think twice, because your winning chances against CMx2-veterans will dramatically decline. I only get CMSF as a training for CMx2WWII.