Steiner14
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Posts posted by Steiner14
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As to the blue bar controversy, I understand the reason people want it back, but it seems to me an easy work-around is to hit the go button and then just get up and leave the room for a minute. Stretch your legs, get a drink, ect.
Judging like a machine, there is even no difference between a barely readable text and a beautiful font, that fits to the whole concept, if only the information matters.
Humans are not machines. A player is playing a game, because of the imagination and feelings it creates. Therefore IMO the psychological impact is huge, if you have to switch off the monitor, turn the loudspeakers off, or even leave the room, to get rid of information you don't want to receive that way - compared to a solid concept, that seems to be made of one finished piece for that kind of useage. Therefore product design is so important.
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Steiner14,
The problem is I have to convince Charles to code stuff that is, as it seems we can all agree to, a gimmick that has no actual gameplay value. It's not like it would take a lot of time to code this, it's just that he doesn't like to be distracted by "WTF?!?" requests like this. I've proposed it before and I got the virtual raised eyebrow, but what the heck... I'll try again.
That's great.
The blue bar with the blanked screen alone ofcourse will not bring all old CMers that have gone back, but as one element in a package of movable waypoints, corrected terrain-destruction in the replay phase, the detailed unit info screen, optional action delays, this could be the psychological icing on the cake to feel like coming home.
Oh, when we are at psychological aspects, may i rise another one? If a summary at the end of a game would give the player a little more feedback than a emotionless stats-window, it would not affect the emotional ties to the product negatively.
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Steve,
sure, but you also claimed you 've never been a good CMx1-player.
Probably it would be more correct to say you were not such a good WEGO-player:
In CMx1 there was only one kind of gameplay - everyone was "forced" into WEGO, although you are obviously more the RT-character - while other players like me, liked to dive deeply into the map, slept over possible setups and tactics, continued to analyze everything during the whole battle and watched each movie at least three times, not to miss the slightest information in it.
This is where WEGO truly - and only WEGO - shines for such kind of players.
Such players have other expectations and focus on other things, than RT-players.
The differences between RT and WEGO therefore are not only of cosmetical nature. I think the kind of player is very different and therefore aspects in one mode must not be valid for the other mode.
I find it quite funny, that you, as someone i wouldn't call a true WEGO-player, made the best WEGO-game ever.
I hope, that with the second title of CMx2, you will take care a bit more about the very different nature of RT and WEGO players once you've recognized our different perception of the game.
Discussions about realism therefore will never come to the same conslusions and in fact they hide the reasons, WHY those two types of players, have to come to different perceptions of realism in CM.
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As far as managing all this, the only management necessary is making sure you don't run into anything too big. Play zoomed out so you can see everything, and get used to ctrl-clicking the ground to jump around the map. Don't be afraid to pause, but remember if you set up your movements correctly, with plenty of overwatch, you don't need to pause every time a new enemy pops up.
This is not Combat Mission. This has nothing to do with a highly realistic tank battle, nothing to do with important single undulations or objects in the terrain, that can decide about sucess or defeat.
You describe exactly, why i can't stand RT. It has nothing to do with the tactical thinking of the individual unit in reality.
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+1 I suck at RTS and FPS games (low-twitch factor!).
I wonder if the following has any influence on L33t RTS players!? LOL
Scientist Find That Gene That Makes You Good At HALO Also Makes You A Premature Ejaculator
After a study of 200 Dutch men, scientists found that those with a premature ejaculation problem all had a version of a gene that controls the release of serotonin. And, unfortunately for all of you awesome Call of Duty players out there, those affected seem to "have very quick reflexes. They may be excellent at playing tennis or computer games, for example." Oh, cruel fate!
Well, at least now you have an excuse, both for your lousy performance in the sack and your awesome performance on Xbox Live. The only problem is that now you can expect a whole new barrage of insults coming over your headset every time you take down an opponent.
So what's this mean for you in the long run, my prematurely ejaculating, headshotting friend? Maybe a drug that'll let you last longer without buying those condoms with numbing juice in the tip. However, if you had the option of taking a pill that would make you a stallion in the sack but make you suck at video games, would you do it? Talk about your tough decisions. [bBC]
ROFL!
I'm relatively stupid, but i'd say you need to relax.When i was at my best beak in CMSF (while playing it's campaign thru), i was ice. I didn't do this each time i heard sounds of gunfire:
-panic
-pause
-forget my masterplan.
Instead i did this:
-Keep focuesed on manuver. Didnt' swet for minor gunfire.
-Try to not use Pause too often, basically when issuing orders to large formations.
-Only if unit(s) in stationary element (not manuvering) are about to be slaughtered i might broke my focus from manuver.
-keep large picture of action. So no zooming to look what kind niiice kit Marine/sOLDIER has and has beard been shaved.
-If seeing that there is trackers flying, it's better to play cool and ignore than start to play goose-mommy (which is synomyme in our language for overprotective behaviour). It might be reasonable to be quickly checking what they are up against and is there heavy casualities. Then again this might push me to micromanaging: "i just save these 4 innocent blokes"... while my manuvering platoon gets killed.
You describe quite well my thoughts and why i can't stand RT: i see absolutely no sense in playing such a game by using units without doing the best possible action to achieve the goal. It contradicts my empathy with each single unit and the will, to achieve the best result with a minimum of losses. I think i'm just too old and have too less spare time, to be fascinated by action games. I need a deeper motivation.
I will never be able to be fascinated by a "tank battle", if i can not search and find the best possible route and plan to react, because it is not a simulation of a tank-battle for me, it is only action without any ties to the thoughts of the commanders of the real unit.
Playing RT for me is like wasting time, that could be wasted much better. But when i play chess, it is not wasted time, it has depth. And the same feeling gave me CMx1-WEGO.
There's a completely different psychology behind it compared to RT-action.
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Malaspina,
you gave the answer implicitly yourself: that's why a certain amount of stubborn CM-players refuses to play RT and insists on the best possible WEGO-implementation, to play tactically challenging battles.
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The one thing that annoys me with wego at the moment is the replays showing already destroyed terrain and buildings.Once that is sorted I'll be a very happy camper. Did the ammo counts not rolling back get sorted? I can't remember.
A serious showstopper for me. I just creates the feeling, that something is broken and it doesn't feel like CM.
I was just now thinking of a work-around for this problem. Could you instead place an option in the game where when playing WeGo (PBEM or internet) you can click an option box that will tell the game to make the screen go black (nothing visible) and cut all sound while the 60 seconds of real time combat is being calculated? Everything is still being calculated in RT just as before, but you just can't see or hear anything while it's being calculated.That's another little aspect, that has a huge psychological impact for me and why i can't stand CMSF'S WEGO.
I had suggested the blanking of the screen long ago, but maybe, after the biggest problems had been solved, Steve will find the time, to analyze, how he could get some of the gone old WEGOers, without losing a single new customer...
ps: Important: although if that would be implemented, the blue bar option should be activated in the game out of the box, to give us old WEGOers a psychologically correct impression to play good ol' CM-quality.
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The Tanklord,
good comments, but look at it from the positive side: if they wouldn't have gone realtime, they most probably wouldn't have such a success. And this success was the necessity to get CMx2 WWII.
So, i'm with you, that the RT constraints definately force certain optimizations, and the faster computers become, the more severe the restrictions are compared to the possiblities in a pure WEGO game, tweaked for highest simulation accuracy, but such a hypothetical WEGO game can't be played at all, because BFC can't afford to make it.
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Steiner, you have a good point. To counter this in RT, command delay penalties could be re-introduced maybe?
That sounds like a very interesting solution!
Uh, I'd leave command delays for RT optional.Absolutely. Would be great, to have that option.
Sounds like a good and realistic idea, but actually playing an RT game where units simply ignore orders is innately frustrating. It would feel buggy and wrong, even if working as intended. I can imagine banging on the keyboard and yelling at the stupid tank to back up.In WEGO, that's just part of the game. It works. In RT, not so much.
A very good point and i'm afraid, you are right, that it just wouldn't feel correct.
So what could Steve do, that such a delay would feel correct in the context and enhance the tension, instead of feeling just plain wrong?
What about a situation dependent delay?
Maybe a check before the RT-execution could be done? - If some kind of threat to the unit exists and the threat is already visibe to the player, a delay is introduced (after getting used to it, maybe it could feel like realistic seconds of finding a solution to the threat. Depending on the unit's quality (and other factors), the amount of delaytime could also be varied.
The amount of the delay could even be made user definable, so that players preferring faster (or no) reaction times, could use a lower factor, while WEGO-fans could even decide for action dependent delays up to a minute.
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Steve,
it's great to hear, that you are planning to make both modes better. That is economically very wise, because that way, you cover two market-segments.
But as a WEGO-player i want to point you to a completely different perception, to the one you described as being the main difference between WEGO & RT - imo you underestimate the psychological differences: it is the restriction in WEGO, that can only be compensated by careful planning and forethinking in conjunction with the remaining uncertainty, that awaits you, when you decide to end the planning phase.
For me it's psychologically a completely different game, if i know, i can withdraw units at every time, if i.e. an artillery barrage starts, or if i have to integrate the impossibility of fast user reaction into the whole tactical approach.
IMO this difference will become bigger in the WWII releases, where i.e. tank-battles are not decided mostly by the very first shot even at driving forward. Recon with a Tiger? Immediate reaction of the player, if a threat appears, could be a well working tactic. The result will be completely different tactics compared to a tactical approach, where the tank has to be used that way, that he surely survives 60 seconds without user interaction.
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So it makes sense to us that by the time 12 months post Normandy rolls around you guys will want some new game features to play with. The logical place to do that is with this Title.
May i remind you, that CMSF was released 7/2007? So that makes already 15 months waiting for the next title-release!
btw: in the meanwhile i have a credit-card - where can i place my pre-order?
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Hello Steve,
for me CMSF just doesn't work, but now i'm interested in the Normandy title again.
If the ressources of your company are not enough for a campaign-game, why don't you define an interface and just license it's use to another company? Or maybe even make the interface public and sell licenses for a relatively cheap price to the community?
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Absolutely.
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Surely. Like some of the experts here suggest, you could go down on level 1 and drive minutes over the whole map to find undulations.Originally posted by Thomm:6) Can you read the terrain in this screenshot?
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That's fine for you, if you are satisfied with so less information, but it's a fact, that a scalar does not contain as much information as a vector or even a matrix.Originally posted by Combatintman:Steiner 14 - I can see it well enough.
Imagine there are two undulations. A smaller one which is closer and a larger one, which is bigger and farer in the distance.
If you look from a certain direction, it is possible, that the color of the top of the first undulation is equal to the color of the hill behind it. With a grid, you see the changing gradients, see clearly the top of the first hill and you also see a distance effect. MUCH more information.
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It's good to hear you've not ruled it out yet.Based on screenshots posted by people, and past use of CMx1 mods, I think relatively few people use the grid mod. Why? Distracts from the immersion. I know I've never used grid mods in any CM game for that reason. Although it does help clarify topography it certainly isn't a requirement to play the game well.Steve
But your conclusion is not correct imo. You stated yourself several times you were not the best CMx1 player.
I would rate myself a very good player. I've played ladder with a winning streak of 75% and i played mostly people far higher in the ladder.
I've lost not a single battle as defender since CMBO days.
And my experience is, that all good players, used gridded mods. You need them to see possible shooting corridors and possible approach routes that are worth inspecting.
CMx2 aims even more at realism than CMx1. IMO it would lack something, if PzIV turret heights being finally modelled for hull down position firefights, but that they can not be planned by the necessary tool for that: the grid overlay.
To keep the optical immersion high, it would be perfect, if it would be switchable, but imo it would be not so good, if the game which claims to be the most realistic tactical simulation, does not offer such a tool because of eye candy considerations.
[ June 12, 2008, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ]
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To play WWII tank battles successfully, you will need to see the terrain.Originally posted by Combatintman:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Steiner14:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Combatintman:
Still don't understand it though.
@Other Means,
better than nothing. </font>
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There is no way to find the best tactical routes without gridded terrain. High contrast mods give not that much information at a glance.Originally posted by MeatEtr:I certainly tried all the grid mods for all the CMx1 games. IMO think they're overrated. IIRC most of my opponents(in the hundreds probably) didn't like them either. Besides the lost in immersion, you can still see undulations in the terrain without the mod, although sometimes a zoom-in is needed.
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To play WWII tank battles successfully, you will need to see the terrain.Originally posted by Combatintman:Still don't understand it though.
@Other Means,
better than nothing.
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I'm wondering, if the WWII release will have a grid overlay?
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Thank you, very appreciated!
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Hello,
i'm interested in the penetration data of the BT-guns. Since i don't have CMBB installed anymore, i hope someone could be so helpful and take a look at the penetration data and post it here?
What can the BT-7 with the
45/L46
75/L17
calibers penetrate
@100 @500 @1000m
@0 degree?
And does it have the same penetration-performance as the T70 (45/L46)?
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Yesterday i found the sheet of paper again, where i noted my personal impressions.
I removed most of the bugs that have been solved, but the rest of the list shows my very first impressions and IMO these impressions are still valid and would give CMSF a much better overall feeling in WEGO-mode:
No optical display during replay. Cheap looking buttons for FF, REW.
No sound when the turn has finished (the lovely CMx1-end-turn sound should be introduced again).
The real-time calculation is distracting - an optional blanked screen with the famous blue-bar would be great for me.
Possibility to switch off the ambient sounds?
The window "End of turn" is annoying for me.
Camera movement is way too fast. CMx1 was that fast if a modifier-key was pressed. Therefore difficult to position the camera on an exact spot.
No grid overlay.
Color of setupzone to weak.
No LOS-tool.
No terrain description where the cursor resides.
Clicking on movement path doesn't select the unit.
No adjustable waypoints.
Screen-area for turning the camera with the mouse is too high (to long movements from the interface to this area).
Turn mode: not stationary, camra moves on a circle. Very annoying. In CMx1 the position of the camera does not change while turning.
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@We Build We Fight,
to me it seems, you don't acknowledge the different aspects of the involved roles.
The interests of the people running this company are (beside others) to make money and to keep in business.
The interests of you as customer are, to get the most for your money.
Do you see potential conflicts?
Fine, then you will understand what Steve said.
Battlefront Mod and Scenario Depot - your opinion counts
in General Discussion Forum
Posted
May i suggest another solution, that would cost only a fraction of the costs you are planning?
Make a torrent-site!
All you have to do, is to motivate people to keep seeding.
On good torrent-sites, this is done by ratios, that are strictly observed and executed (i.e. if upload/download ratio below 0.6 you receive a warning and a certain amount of time to correct it - otherwise aou are banned. Additionally there are time-periods (i.e. 24h), people have to keep seeding after their leeching is complete.
You could also offer certain bonuses to good seeders.
And to be on the safe side, the battlefront-server will always seed every file in the database.
For people like me, with expensive mobile bandwith: give people the possibility to buy download bonuses, so that they can keep their ratio up, without seeding.
And make sure, you only allow certain safe torrents, that don't allow ratio cheating.