[France 1940 - Allied armor and the real German edge]

Yes, yes how true: the victors are always right.

To add my 2 cents: ofcourse dropping nuclear bombs is allowed - but it is forbidden to use them agains civilians.

So if we take the rules and "laws" invented by the victors (not the NATIONS of the allies, the people who followed honestly the call of their governments and gave their life for the declared ideas, were the winners - the white nations in common are the losers as we can see 50 years later even clearer, of maybe the last big eruption of white man's will to survive) and even forget two of the most important principles in law,

1. that there's no penalty without existing law

2. the subject of each law has to be defined. What this means is, that you can't take i.e. "humanity" into law, without defining what "humanity" is.

If you think that's easy - it isn't. And, big surprise!, it NEVER has been done. Words like humanity in laws, are classical rubber-paragraphs that are colliding with the fundamental principles of legal-state.

But even if we forget these two aspects, the use of nuclear bombs against the two civilian cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki against an for capitulation already negotion-ready enemy, was a 1st class war crime.

If the tribunal at Nürnberg would have judged it's inventors with the same principles they used against the loser, Roosevelt (nuclear-weapons against civilians, terror-war with bombs against civilian-cities behind the front, with the explicit target, not to fight enemy troops, but to destroy the morale of the people), Churchill (starting this terror-war; 5 months(!) before the first german bomb was dropped against GreatBritain (industrial- & arms-city Coventry),and after at least 2 official declarations of the 3rd Reich, to stop this terror-attacks against pure civilian-cities with no troops or war-important industry, otherwise the Reich will be forced to bomb british cities, germany bombed cities in England, too) and last but not least, Stalin (attack-war against Finland, attack-war and occupation of the baltic states and Poland, planning an attack-war against Germany, that only was balked by the preventive-attack of Germany directly into the prepagation-areas of more than 4 million soldiers close to german-border with - for example - no maps of Russia, but tons of maps of germany, where on the first day of operation Barbarossa, nearly 50% of the russion air-force was destroyed (2000 planes in 24hours!) on earth, already fueled and placed in rows on the front airfields and 3 million(!) prisoners of regular fighting troops were made during first 4 weeks of operation Barbarossa), these three politicians also were guilty.

every real judge, that would have taken a look at the map of USSR, would have seen that these proven but withhelded FACTS had been possible under only one situation: the weakest point of time of each army: the preparing for attack).

But a real court would have been suicide for those forces behind the scenes, who lied the French, English, Canadian, Australian and US nations into the war.

They had used all their power of manipulation via mass-media and financial-influence in the plutocraties, called "democraties", to get rid of the biggest threatening of the interests-system, since the invention of interests and now, 5 seconds before 12, after the french-revolution, the established communistic-system and two won world-wars, they sould allow the former threatening system, to explain not only to the germans, also to the whole world, how the interests-system slaves the whole world?

Should they really allow them to say, that the US-president is only a marionett for the international-capital?

Should they allow them to call the men behind the scenes by their names and the dependencies of the US-presidents on the few people with 90% of the capital and the connections between freemasonry and international-capital?

Should the loser be allowed to tell the world, that the raid on Pearl-Harbour, was no raid? That the President of the UnitedStates knew several hours before, due to the decoded japanese messages, that his soldiers will become attacked but he white house refused to warn the fleet, to come over the war-declaration agains Japan into the war against Germany?

3 (6) years at war, to give afterwards the loser a chance to tell his point of view?

The much better thing to do: like Stalin already said, "who controls Germany, controls Europe".

But there was a big problem: the germans had learned to look behind the mask of the "democracies" with their "free" mass media - not controlled by governmental power, but with a much better solution (for the capital): controlled by the strongest power in the plutocratic world: MONEY - and they already knew they are as democracies comouflaged plutocraties.

They also knew that Marxism/Communism is only the other side of the same medal of the OneWorld strategists.

Who believes in random, that the US government was the first government which officially accepted the USSR in 1918, despite the already well known killing of million russians and the elimination of the whole elite and that US capital was the source for the first 5-year-plan (who sees connections to the lend-and-lease act, which gave Stalin material in a size equal to germany's complete armament of the years 41'-43').

You can beat the enemy with weapons, but nevertheless, you need to win the believe in the new system:

solution: the system helps the loser to get rid of the empty stomach, you help him to get rid of the "dictatorship", you give the individual "freedom", and all you want is an economical-system that creates interests - a genius plan but not enough for an enemy, that already knew about those principles.

So you need to destroy the believe in the enemy's own nation and culture - then he wants automatically to get rid of his old "dark" & "bad" identity and is open-minded for the "new" ideas:

the biggest and monstrous crime in german history was waiting to be told to everyone!

German civilians were lead through the concentration camps and - ofcourse were shocked. But the media withholded, that after only a few weeks of a desease like dysentery or cholera, everybody looks like those people - nobody said, that the destruction of the chemical industry by the terror-war of the two high-degree-freemasonrys Mr. Churchill and Mr. Roosevelt, made it impossible to produce the necessary medicines.

My grandfather weighted 94 pounds, when he returned home from the russian-front. He would have been a good model for the propaganda-films also.

And in 1948, suddenly the USSR opened Auschwitz for the international press. 6 million jews were gassed. 4 millions in Auschwitz.

Ask an historian today, where is the memory-blackboard gone, that stated 4 million jews were killed in Auschwitz.

Well, it's the same board, where the pope kneeled in front.

No court that ever prooved if it is was even possible to be done, like the witnesses told.

But nevertheless in europe you're put into jail for years, if you don't believe in and say it loud.

Nowadays germany has more prisioners due to have said a wrong opinion, than the former German Democratic Republic ever!

The plan succeded but i'm sure, the time of the plutocraties in the western world is running out in the next 10 years.

Ofcourse, the people behind the scenes know that, that nothing can grow forever and the world's economical system is satiated.

The only hope for the OneWorld strategists is, to make another big war (put the capital into armament) and win (afterwards they have even more influence and capital).

Since the 11.9. everybody can observe, how the system is preparing for the next war.

This time, we Germans will be in the boat that brings "freedom" and "peace".

But i wouldn't bet, that the lie will win once again.

[ June 15, 2002, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ]

[France 1940 - Allied armor and the real German edge]

Sorry for going off-topic now, but i don't know a better place to ask about.

Michael, thanks for your answer.

You also touched a question i ALWAYS wanted to ask:

how's the allied veterans piont of view about the western system after WWII?

I already assumed what you wrote, but i would be very interested in other people's point of view.

Well, from a generalizing, "old fashioned" german point of view (nowadays there is no german point of view anymore, we've become exchangeable consumption-fools), i think, we germans would have NEVER surrendered if we would have known, that only few decades later, all the fundamentals of european culture will be destroyed, that family with children will become equal to a homosexual-partnership, that homosexuals will be allowed to adopt children, that women will be lured to work instead of caring for the children, that the youth will be poisioned with drugs and completely brainwashed by TV, that 12 year old boys will become just for fun murderers or rapists, that women will be reduced to sexual-objects, and it will become dangerous for a woman to go out at night, millions of healty unborn children will be killed while millions of immigrants of complete different cultures, preferably non-white will be lured with money as labour-slaves into germany (Great Britain, France,... choose whatever you like) against the will of the majority, but with the help of the full power of the system's mass-media, that faeces will become a part of art, and the old art will be called "reactionary", that the pawn will become an agriculture-industrial, whose animals will never see a ray of sunlight or will smell dew-fresh grass, that animals will be put on ships, not having labour with the faeces, that in year 1990 over 40% of the german children will have allergies, 30% will have overweight, that grandmothers and grandfathers, who took care their whole life for the children will be put into age-homes and even will be left alone, when the last hour has come, while the children earn money or are on holydays, that in year 2000 70% of world's population will not have enough to eat or drink, while in the 1930s only 30% hadn't, that the climate will be destroyed,...

But human beeing is forgetting very fast. Yesterday's scandal is tomorrow's normality.

And the alien grip on the mass-media helps to forget the enormous changes even faster and manipulates us into the direction, that brings even more money to the forces behind the scenes.

Is my assumption right, that most of the allied veterans, also think/thought nowaday's system has nothing in common with the ideas they thought they were fighting for?

Steiner

[France 1940 - Allied armor and the real German edge]

Very interesting posts. Especially Tom's (C3K) statements about the optics was complete new to me. Thank you.

What i miss in the discussion are 2 points: were there different approaches in training?

I mean that discipline was one of the main targets in german training, like in whole german culture.

But discipline was not only focused on commands - it was much more a way of seeing what life is for: the individual is not that important - what really counts is the whole community and that the individuum is ready to die, when it is necessary, that the nation can live.

I hope i can explain it with my poor English what i mean.

In this context i can tell you a small, but very interesting story from an uncle of mine, when he was 13 years old:

he was in a youth-camp of the Hitlerjugend, like every weekend, when he received the message, that his father had died (he was 13 years old). He went to his Fähnchenführer and told him about the bad news, crying while he spoke.

The Fähnchenführer laid his hand on his shoulder, looked at him and said: J.... very sorry to hear that. But, despite all of the pain you feel: a german boy doesn't cry. The character is prooved in hard situations, only. Now go home and take care of your mother.

Since this day, my uncle never again cried (he told me so).

This is only a small episode but i think it gives a quite good insight on how german culture trained the individual to be hard to itself to have more power to help the community.

I think it could also be called anti-decadent.

And if i think of the expanding-time of the british-empire (and even the colonialization of Northern America, with the Puritans) i see the same principles.

And we find similar examples further back in history, too: Hellas (the nation that created the antique greek culture) or the expanding Roman Empire: all those culture-creating nations were strictly non-decadent and had the same main principle: that the nation is more important than the individual.

The life of the real, knightly soldier, was the big model for the male youth.

I think this aspect sould also be taken into discussion, despite all the technical and tactical issues.

I have a question to the US-soldiers out there:

here in Germany the surviving soldiers of WWII are very amused about the hollywood war-movies.

In the movies it is quite common, that officers are insulted by subordinates - for example, if they think a command is a mistake.

Sometimes it even happens, that conflicts are solved with the fists.

Not to forget, to talk to an officer, while chewing a bubble-gum like a cow.

My question is: does this reflect reality?

Since my grandfather (4. Gebirgsjäger) told me, that even in hardest situations on the russian front a strong look from the officer was enough, i can't believe what we see in the movies all the time.

If US-officers would have needed their fists, till the subordinates accepted the command, all material in the world wouldn't have been enough to win the war.

Or, think of one of the newer movies: SavingPrivateRyan, where he just ignores the command, to return home - this looks quite aehm... strange, not to say ridiculous.

My second question is:

did the french-troops like the german had

"Auftragstaktik" (is job-tactic the right word? i'll try to explain in english: the command doesn't tell HOW the target can be reached - it only tells WHAT the target is and the officers can decide quite freely on their own, how they'll make it)?

I know, that the russians didn't have "Auftragstaktik". Ofcourse this had also quite simple reasons: not everyone was capable of reading maps.

My third question:

did the Allies (French in 1940) also had the possibility for officers to ignore commands, when the current situation of the fight made it necessary, without signing their death sentence?

This is an old prussian rule - ofcourse the officer voluntarily faced/ had to face the consequences afterwards.

Thanks in advance,

Steiner

[ June 12, 2002, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ]

[I Finaly Beat the Game In Under One Year]

ImmerEtwas, share your point of view, too.

[I Finaly Beat the Game In Under One Year]

After reading this thread (i just finished the Beta Demo and i really love this game!) i was very surprised an invasion of USA is possible to be successful.

In real life, there is (and also was in WWII) absolutely no chance, to beat the USA (by an amphibious landing-operation).

The material and recources of this country are endlessly.

Hubert, i think an option like "realistic mode" where the recources of USA are increased tremendously, would prevent from such fictional scenarios of an invasion USA (btw: the still beeing alive invasion-story was a product by allied propaganda only - no German/Axis plans ever existed).

Even with a whole united Europe, an invasion is impossible - Europe has only few ressources (compared to USA, Europe has nothing).

Even the real Allied invasion in the normandy was for a 10-15 times stronger opponent against the small Germany fighting against Russia a very risky operation (think of the only a few hours to late arriving SS-Pz-corps).

The conclusion for the game could be, that landing-operations should be made much harder (this would have the benefits, that the US-recources could be much more increased, without making an anvasion in Europe too easy).

A main problem at the moment seems to me, that the (in reality) fragile phase of setting up a bridgehead and expanding it, has no correspondence in the game (it's not enough to bring the landing-ships in a good condition to the target-port - it's even more difficult to conquer the necessary land with only a few troops).

I think the strength of landed troops should be drastically reduced for a certain period of time.

How this problem could be solved?

2 ideas:

1.

time aspect: when a landing operation takes place, the time of each turn could be slowed down - in reality, even hours become important for strategic commands/plans (due to the very vulnerable troops during the first hours/days).

Ofcourse this only makes sense, if troops are close enough to the landing zone.

strength aspect: reduced strength of landed troops.

Another positive aspect of the slow-motion effect: when the opposite takes place (evacuating troops), there would be the extra chance of the adjacent enemy troops, to attack the much weaker troops preparing for shipping.

2. idea: more simple to implement, i think: let the 1 week turn, but decreasing the strenght of the landed troops adequately for a good and quite realistic gameplay in the first week.

Another weak point i think: Gibraltar.

There's no possibility to attack ships, when Gibraltar is taken.

I was really keen on to try out, what would have been possible, if Axis would have taken Gibraltar (and also Malta).

But at the moment, this has no negative effect for the enemy ships passing closely by (i haven't tried out, if Gibraltar taken by Axis, already has a negative effect on supply for the british ships in the mediterranean-sea).

Nevertheless, SC is an exiting game, but not very realistic (hopefully only at the moment).

Hope you find some thoughts useful.

Please, excuse my bad English.

[ June 11, 2002, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ]

[What is your favorite gun in the Axis forces for CM?]

Pak88 horrendously ugly?

On this picture, you're absolutely right.

I saw (in a Wochenschau) a 88er PAK in heavy action on the eastern front against T34s and with the fast reloading fieldgrey german soldiers with the beautiful helmets, it looked absolutely fantastic.

[Recommedations what to see in Southern Germany?]

Hi all!

I'm absolutely new to this forum and still don't own CM, but i ordered it a few minutes ago...

If you want to get an impression of Germany's look prior to the terror-bombardements of the cities, you should visit HEIDELBERG.

Best regards,

Steiner