Sarge Saunders

Just did a quick test. Seven regular M10s against seven regular Panthers. Distance is around 800 meters, clear LOS. Three of the seven M10s decided to instantly use Tungsten rounds on the Panther(?)s, even with their first shot. So yes, allied tanks use Tungsten rounds at unindentified enemy tanks. Since I setup the test in May '45 all of the M10s had 5-8 Tungsten rounds, quite a lot of them. The quantity of Tungsten rounds surely influences the crew's decision to use them on unindentified tanks.</font>

Aha! I knew someone would be along with a test result. Did the Sherman (76) Tungsten rounds penetrate the front upper hull? The turret? at what range?

I wish it weren't so but the M10 is on defense and they are coming to me. My other M10 has a side shot on the same Panther so things will be quite different for that engagement. That's part of the reason I never noticed this issue before. Never in a situation that called for a frontal engagement of a Panther by an M10. -Sarge [ June 13, 2002, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]

This is true to be sure. But I still wonder about my original question: "Will an allied tank EVER fire Tungsten at an unidentified enemy tank even after a ricochet?" Besides...the TC ought to aim for that turret anyway... -Sarge [ June 13, 2002, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]

Still frustrated with Tungsten usage. But before anyone posts distinctly unhelpful ideas let me first state: 1. I know that CM v1.12 patch makes allied tanks more likely to fire Tunsgten rounds when available. 2. Firing of Tungsten round seems predicated on full, correct ID of target vehicle that cannot be penetrated with normal AP. 3. Everyone and then some has already whined about this before...and yes I did a search. That being said let me share a specific situation and find out how things really work. This is not to complain to BFC / BTS or anything. It is to better plan for such oddities in the future. Situation: Light Snow. Veteran M10 TD with 7 Tungsten rounds and 36 AP rounds has previously spotted Panther? roll into gunsights 390 meters away. Panther? orientation is face-on and not hull-down. M10 reaction...pop smoke and roll back to avoid a gunfight. OK says I...this is a scenario which features the M10s specifically to deal with axis Ubertanks (the 57mm AT guns have done a number on enemy mark IVs already). So....I order the M10 back up to face off with the Panther?. This time he obeys and gleefully ricochets 3 AP rounds without firing any Tungsten. Death awaits him before the 4th shot. Now, I know it is not optimal to face off with a Panther head on. I also know that if the Panther? were IDed properly, the M10 would have likely fired the Tungsten. What I don't get is how many rounds need to bounce the front turret of the Panther for Tungsten to be used regardless of full ID. BTW, been playing CM for 1 1/2 years now but have never been in a situation that this issue mattered. Normally, in a QB I would buy M36 TDs to take on Panthers....or play scenarios that do not feature LOS blocking light snow....or had this issue work to my favor against allied opponents. So the question is: Will an allied tank EVER fire Tungsten at an unidentified enemy tank? -Sarge

Thanks! Glad you like 'em. Wasn't aware that anyone bothered to play them. No, I haven't worked on any since last year. Kinda got tired of them. I have a dozen or so half-completed ones, but they didn't turn out the way I had hoped, and were never close to being finished. The only one that was close was an oddity with a symmetrical map. I've never tested it, but you can play with it if you like. It's a biggie and a bit unusual. Berm Defense - Chris</font>

Thanks JasonC. Almost everything in your post has ramifications for CM battles. A true testament to BTS that historical Amercian tactics are the best way to play for good results. BTW, in CM terms how many FOs would represent a battalion of 105mm guns? I always assumed FOs fired in batteries of 4 guns salvos. Probably an arty modelling question... -Sarge

There´s a problem with this: If he buys something like, say, 4xRifle44, 3xM10, 1x105mmArtillery, then, I believe, you are in deep trouble. (Explanation: Rifles will kill your men, relying on numbers, M10s will kill your Hetzer, Artillery will kill your guns.)</font>

Hey Wolfe, Just as an aside I wanted to give you Kudos for the scenarios on your page. Downloaded a couple a while back and enjoyed them immensely. Especially liked "Forest Dwellers". Thanks for writing em. Any more infantry heavy scenarios in the works from you??? -Sarge [ June 11, 2002, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]

They are, in fact, available in July 1944. Please excuse me, I am not critical of your ideas at all. Just curious....

I thought the example was moderate trees.... Just for fun, I generated a few maps with mod trees/small map/farmland/small hills. Interesting results in most cases: Defender tree cover was very good with attacker tree cover being poor. The hills are not a factor because the small map size really just tends to be gentle slopes instead of small hills anyway. I disagree with the notion of not buying much or expensive infantry. I want to have enough infantry to stay hidden and then go toe-to-toe against the attacker's infantry when they come in close. Redwolf and I agree on the Hetzer. I would want to find a hull down position for it no doubt. Interesting note about the 50mm mortars though.... BTW Redwolf, what would your specific OOB be? -Sarge [ June 10, 2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]

Hey Biltong! Looks like some fun to be had with this one. Will D/L it and give a try. Cheers, Sarge

2 x Infantry Platoon (vet) 1 x Motorized Platoon (vet) 1 x Hetzer (crack) 1 x 120mm FO (vet) 1 x TRP 1 x Panzerschreck (vet) This is just one idea. Note lack of MG teams but motorized inf squads carry 2 x LMGs to make up for it. Much is expected of the crack Hetzer. He must land and kill every AFV because his only backup is the Panzerschreck. TRP can help him. Also the TRP on a small map means there will be at least one obvious covered advance (a grove of trees, etc.) to use the TRP and drop the 120mm mortars on. The 120mm FO will no doubt have a devastating effect on 1 or 2 platoons of attacking infantry. TRP may also be placed on the first German MLR to help in counterattack by your reserve Motorized platoon. The only weakness here is that Allies may have 2 Sherm(76) tanks. Hetzer can only shoot at one and even then has a slow rate of fire. Players concerned about that should leave one rifle platoon and take instead a 75mm Pak40 to help the Hetzer. Cheers, Sarge [ June 10, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]

Dittos Stormbringer. That is the advantage of a small software house. They actually get a chance to listen to their customers. Count me in for a purchase Hubert!

Hubert, Thanks for this and for all the hard work you are doing to please your customers. Kudos! -Sarge

Hey, speaking of which....I drove Sunday to the Patton Museum at Fort Knox, KY. Was about 2 hours south of where I live. There they have many tank models including: M5 Stuart, M1 Abrams, M10, M4A3W(76) "Easy-Eight", M3 "Lee", SPG 105mm "Priest", SPG 155mm "Long Tom", among others. Also, they have a cut-out King Tiger that you can see into and actually observe the thickness of that awesome front armor. A battle worn Sturmgeschutz III and a Panther II prototype that sported an 88mm gun (no kidding!). Other items of interest include an 88mm dual purpose Flak/AT gun, Panzerschrecks, Panzerfausts, PIATs and a captured T-72 from the Iraqi "Desert Storm" vintage. Let me just say that up close a King Tiger is absolutely fearsome! While the modern heavy MBTs such as the T-72 and the M1 Abrams look more deadly than fearsome with the low silhouette and monster cannon. Anyone near Kentucky USA should try to visit. Admission is free but visitors should know that extensive security screens on vehicles are conducted at the base gate. It is truly amazing to get close to these beasts and see for your own eyes what you've been staring at through tank mods all this time. -Sarge

Must get demoralizing after a while. Seriously, You are correct. This is about the third time in this thread I have chimed in for PBEM replay. I actually only played the one PBEM game with Stormbringer on the SC demo....until last night. Then I played twice as axis. With the ability to see the AI attack against me and still having FOW was about the right balance of fun IMHO. The AI will get old really quick and as Stormbringer mentioned earlier: "people try the darnedest things." Nothing like playing against a living, breathing, sneaky, devious, gamey, and vengeful human. -Sarge

Kiltie Lad, extra batteries are nice. I have one extra. For recharging, you want to get a full travel adapter kit. Outlets vary from country to country. Most kits give you all the adapters you need for Europe. I bought mine actually at a department store in the luggage section. Probably pretty easy to find online too. A saavy computer traveler also carries a surge suppressor. They make them in small sizes for laptops. I have even heard of a phone line tester to protect your modem from bad phone connections that surge. Hope this helps. -Sarge

Yeah Schullenraft also mentioned this problem in the tech support thread. The higher-end laptops don't have this problem. Mainly about design of heat sinks and fan, etc.... My Dell works 24/7 and some of that being heavy CM use! -Sarge

Also: My experience with laptops / modem connections to the internet / PBEM while in Europe were very successful 5 summers ago. Phone lines are a huge hassle. What country are you going to? When in Italy, there are many places to send a Fax. Anywhere that is wired to send a fax is good enough to conect you via modem to the internet. Just ask them nicely and offer a moderate compensation. I used the IBM global ISP account. Since then IBM forces you to pay an access fee when roaming in Europe but that have many local numbers around Europe and I had no problem connecting. hmmm.. that's all I can think of for now. Enjoy your trip! -Sarge

Hey Kiltie Lad, I run CM on my Dell Inspiron 7500 500mhz pentium 256 MB ram (only 128 is needed really). It does have an ATI mobility rage pro. This is the main problem for you. ATI video cards don't do fog and This low memory card can only do 1024x768 resolution at medium color depth for CM. It makes up for it with a whopping 15.4" screen. At any rate, whatever brand you get see if they will give any options for the video card and video memory (you need at least 32 for high-res). Get the fastest CPU you can and a good cooling fan for it. CM will overheat a laptop CPU without good heat sinks and a good fan. -Sarge

Playback is needed. Note I just edited my original post. Cheers, Sarge [ May 31, 2002, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]

I think that touches a very important issue: playing against a known good player. Inexperienced Players who think the opponent is much better will often play very cautiously. But that is exactly wrong. Being predictable and slow against a superiour opponent (whether from tactics or numbers doesn't matter) is a very sure way to defeat. </font>

Look we are not talking about tactical level engagements here. These are week long battles between major formations. Do you think that England could lose an entire army or corps without knowing how it happened? Who attacked them? FOW already exists but when a unit is adjacent to and attacking one of your, it is not omniscient to know what happened! High Command might not know what happens any minute, but they sure know what happened with a weeks worth of battle. PBEM playback is needed in the game and does not detract from FOW. -Sarge [ May 31, 2002, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]

Hmmm...been following this thread enough to comment for what it is worth. According to Fionn, mental attitude is key to victory. Fine. I will grant that belief in victory will more likely garner that victory than lack thereof. However, we are not all as talented as Fionn so we actually lose sometimes. What does that do for one's attitude? [retorical question...] Here is what wins: Tactics. How do tactics win? Belief that a tactic is good (formed from experience) and skill at carrying it out. That is it. Skill can even override belief. (ie. I am not sure if this tactic will work but I know how I want to execute it....) Oh did I mention luck helps? Timing? JasonC's and Redwolf's posts, among others, are helpful because they are specific. General statements coming from players who win all the time about moral attitude (should that not be "morale"?) can only help so much because the rest of us CM mortals will lose sometimes and become more cautious (sometimes incorrectly) as a result. It is all part of the game and I will probably never start a game "knowing" I will win. This would qualify as an improper mental attitude. So be it. I still win and lose with my skill as a player. Just speaking for us mortals here.... MHO -Sarge