Grunto IV

if it's meant to be played against the ai, send it my way and i'll test it for you... andyth@qwest.net andy

if you have the new luneville, you might want to fire it up in the editor and lock down all of the units outside of the setup zones.... that was one thing i'd forgotten to do before having hurriedly sent it out to you guys... the 'final' version should be making its way to combat missions and scenario depot soon. i'm playing it hotseat now... man what a battle.... that is if a person likes a vehicle-heavy scenario... ok... enough from me for now... andy

oh.. i see... the 2nd player gets both briefings in one.... 'concantenated' or whatnot... andy

i as well on luneville... i really appreciate all of the tireless work manx has done on my behalf... great site. andy

have fired off new version to manx and admiral keith... andy

it appears that if one plays hotseat, that the briefing for the 2nd player is the 'main' one and not the player-specific one. i've tried this both ways in the scenario i'm currently working on, and in both cases, the proper player-specific briefing is loaded for the first player, but for the 2nd player, a rehash of the 'general' briefing is shown. has anyone else seen this? actually, it makes sense that the 2nd player would get the 'main' briefing, but apparently what is missed is the player-specific briefing for the 2nd player. here's what happens: load the scenario single-player, for either player: appropriate player-specific briefing displayed in both cases. load the scenario for hotseat: first player gets player-specific briefing, 2nd player gets only the general briefing but not the player-specific one for that side. andy

ok... i am still fine tuning it. i will send it out in awhile. andy

i've playtested this a bit more and think that, despite the first impressions one might have of it, that the americans might have an advantage here. 1) the board seems to be a fairly 'low los' environment, and this is ideal for the 'american cavalry vehicle swarms.' 2) the large amount of american artillery will keep the germans moving, otherwise large, immobile concentrations of germans will tend to get shelled into oblivion upon discovery. has anyone else played this one yet? i've designed a new version, and in it: spoiler . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. ... the flags are removed, and instead it is a 'west exit' game for the germans. the whole flow is now e-w instead of se-nw. i've gotten rid of the german towed guns, and instead given them a combination of 10 20mm armored cars and halftracks. the sturmgruppe stuhs have been removed and replaced by spw 251/9s and 251/16s. the 20mm vehicles, (former) tank and sturmgruppe reinforcements are on the board at the start, so the sturmgruppe squads can ride the tanks into battle. the reinforcement locations have been changed from n-s (american-german) to w-e (american-german). so now it is an e-w battle instead of a fight for the section of road. it appears that the germans must still defeat the americans in detail before they can exit. i'm not sure whether this is an impossible task or not. the germans have some real options in their initial setup; the 11 tanks, 10 20mm vehicles, and the sturmgruppe (and support halftracks) are available to be set up anywhere along the east edge of the map, so the americans will be clueless to their whereabouts. the points are now: 7691:7881 german:american. it used to be 7080:7863. the hmg 42s in the motorized battalion now have truck/kubelwagen transport so should be able to keep up with the infantry squads as they advance on foot. the main change to the americans was to split up troop f into 3 reinforcement groups instead of 1 (6-6-5 instead of 17); and of course, to move their reinforcement locations from the n to the w. i don't know if the germans will have much more of a chance in this version, but hopefully it is improved nonetheless. the original scenario-starting positions for the 2 m8 hmcs versus 3 panthers on the road are retained. the map has been polished up. in playing the other version, i came up with a new rule of thumb; try to keep all important locations at least 300 meters away from the map edge. this allows for more manuevering instead of the weirdness which typically occurs when major fighting breaks out around a board edge. so the old 'sw crossroads' has been moved n by a couple of hundred meters. andy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tero: [QB}All I have read it was disconnected so as not to make reloading more difficult. [/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> if memory serves, the designers' notes in squad leader said the same was generally true. andy

--2000 - Los, los, los! - Go, go, go!-- i always thought that was, 'mach, mach, mach!' or "c'mon, c'mon, c'mon" (like robert plant on dazed and confused). andy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vergeltungswaffe: Muzzle velocity is always a concern. At 1900 fps, it is extremely difficult to hit a vehicle size target at all but the shortest ranges. And if that target is moving, forget it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> good point. thanks andy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: We can never make everybody happy, so this will just be one of those things some people will whine about and others will not. Happens all the time Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Steve, I'm with you on this. Since you've already got textures, this seems like an easy enough addition. Besides, the IS-3 is in ASL (grin). Andy

the commonwealth squads might be subpar, but here are some strengths: -50mm mortars are good little harassment weapons; and they can move 'fast.' -PIATs are excellent urban AT weapons... can shoot without conseqence from inside of buildings.... sometimes kill vehicles without themslves being spotted. -3" mortars are superior to german/american 81mm mortars. -they generally have a good array of armored vehicles to choose from. andy

use the stuarts en masse if possible, along with supporting m3a1 halftracks and M8 HMCs. use this sort of mobile force to 'hit and run' in close-range situations. the stuart can knock out a panther from the side or rear, and can risk going against a panzer iv from the front. in other words, that 37mm gun is capable of taking out a pz iv from the front. of course, the stuart won't survive a hit from the pz iv so it is a dicey proposition, but possible nonetheless. anyway, with the stuart think, 'close with the enemy!, side shot!, side shot!, surprise!, hit and run!' it's definitely not a 'standoff weapon' like a jagpanzer iv, hetzer, or jagdpanther. andy

emailed: bugs: -- 1 greyhound is apparently stuck in some woods. -- the american briefing says 3 platoon hqs per platoon... that's actually per troop (company). andy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: SPOILER * * * * * * * * Thanks for the AAR. Obviously giving the AI an experience bonus maybe wasn't the best of ideas, as its troops were already high quality. You also seem to have allowed it random setup positions, which would change the scenario somewhat. I agree that the PzIV's aren't in keeping with the Fallschirmjäger concept, but they are intended as Army reinforcements to the paras, not part of their force. I think by the nature of the scenario, the AI has a good chance of pulling a victory. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> yeah i see the default. the guns are right up front. with them across the river, it is tougher. i tried it again, again with ai at +3 and random setup. i shifted everything far right so as to use the terrain of the town to cover my advance from the opposite river bank on my left. the guns were mostly on the other side of the river again, but this time i took out 2 guns and a panzer iv before calling off the attack. i still had about 4 halftracks. i lost many 1:1 engagements between various allied tanks and the panzer IVs, before finally taking one panzer out. the remaining cromwell couldn't deal with the other panzer iv, though. perhaps if the first 1:1 engagement had gone my way, the remaining tanks of mine could have made a go of it. i lost 2 tanks in two shots to one of those pzks on turn 2. that was no way to start. andy

AAR: (Spoiler): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ok... have set AI to +3 experience. Setup: All units in orange. Turn 1: Sending flanking tanks into center. Will steamroll center if possible. Dismounting infantry and they will move through on foot. I don't know if there is time for this, but the right platoon will sneak into the first row of houses in front of it, and the left platoon, up the center. The vehicles will converge on the center. Cromwells on the left will swing into the center and hunt forward in front of the halftracks and other waiting tanks. Challenger and Churchill on right will move forward with sneaking infantry, after 30-second pauses (let the infantry get out in front. Concerns: Tanks - particularly on left - could be toasted quickly. No contact on Turn 1, but it appears all the roads are mined. Turn 2: Decide to run all fast vehicles through the town with Churchills moving up in support of foot infantry. Center-right Cromwells moving out. Center-left halftracks pushing through yards to rear edge of town on left. Left Cromwells dashing for bridge. Halftracks on right also dashing for bridge. Churchills supporting sneaking infantry. Concerns: Splitting force... not good. Moving vehicles through dicey terrain... not good. Go! Taken under fire by apparent 75mm gun "nest" (2 or more?) on other side of river. Fire fairly ineffectual. Cromwells on left knocked out and immoblized (respectively) but apparent small-caliber AT gun (position unknown). All other vehicles pressing forward. Turn 3: With the loss of the two Cromwells, will have to 'charge with the Churchills as well. All infantry now ordered to sprint toward the church and scattered woods to the right. (clarification: "Churchills in center" were really 1 Churchill and 1 Challenger. On right, same thing; Churchill and Challenger; Challenger lost on turn 2.) It looks like the 'light AT' gun might be a tank across the river. Lost 2 or 3 more tanks and some halftracks. Appears 'tank' on other side is a Panther. Another gun pops up on other side of river. Moving forward with whatever is left... Go! Have 3 tanks and 0 halftracks left. 2 tanks have 1 crew casualty. Turn 5: Lost Churchill on left. Challenger moving up to get into LOS of Panther from around church. Remaining infantry rushing the bridge.... Lost Challenger trying to get at Panther. Turn 6: Attack! Go! 1 platoon HQ made it 3/4 the way across the bridge then thought the best of it, and ran back under a hail of various types of German fire; 75mm short, 75mm long, machinegun, and other small arms. Time to call this attack off. All vehicles knocked out. Aftermath: 97-3 Axis total victory. 16 Axis Casualties (4 KIA) 90 Men OK 65 British Casualties (14 KIA) 1 Mortar Destroyed 16 Vehicles Knocked Out 75 Men OK Turns out there are 2 Crack and 2 Vet 75mm Inf Guns, along with 2 Panzer IVs, then just a couple of platoons of fallschirmjagers. With an almost 2:1 points advantage, perhaps this scenario should have been more doable on my part. Seeing as how it was over after 6 turns, I probably could have taken my time. Assuming 3 turns at the end to reload the troops onto the vehicles, and to get off of the map, I could have spent another 6 turns moving with caution. Beware: If you move too fast (as I often do) you could get clobbered in this one. I was going to cry "foul" at the "Panther" but 2 Panzer IVs seems OK. I would actually recommend StuGs in keeping with the Fallschimrjager 'spirit,' and 75mm recoilless instead of iG. Nice map, interesting situation. I am to blame for this fiasco. Andy

i've emailed it to the 3 of you. thanks for your interest, andy

Name: Road to Luneville Location: South of Nancy, France Version Number: 1.0 Editor Version: 1.12 Date: 18 Sept., 1944 Type: Meeting Engagement Based On: Screening action of the U.S. 42nd Cavalry Squadron Length: 60 Turns Map Size: Huge (2000m x 2000m) Conditions: Day, Dry, Overcast Play First As: Not an AI battle. Has to be played Hotseat or "PBEM" Description: "U.S. Cavalry Squadron" attempts to screen German 111th Armored Brigade. Author: Andy Thomas This scenario is based upon the following account: On the 18th of September 1944 the 2nd Cavalry Group was screening the southern flank of the XII Corps as the corps attacked east of Nancy, France. That morning a counter-attack by the German 111th Panzer Bde hit the 42nd CRS which fought a day-long delaying battle to permit the withdrawl of the 2nd CRS and the repositioning of CCR, 4th Armored Division. The delay (described below) was successful but cost the 42nd most of the equipment in E Troop and all of the tanks in F Company (Troop). The action of the 42nd CRS provided the warning and the time needed for the Corps to reposition CCR to deffeat the counter-attack and hold the city of Luneville. "TANK TRAP" 2LT A.L. Wessling E Troop, 42nd CRS, 2nd Cavalry Group "On the afternoon of the 17th of September I had returned with my platoon to the squadron bivouac area, from a road block we had established with a section of Lt. Lindoerfer's platoon on the road to Baccarat, just a mile or so below Chenevieres. While the block was in operation a Frenchman told us that there were six German tanks in Baccarat. We reported this and promptly forgot it. That evening we went to Luneville for a badly needed shower and change of clothes. On the morning of the 18th, Captain Welsh, the Troop's C.O. was called to Squadron Headquarters at 8 o'clock. Upon his return he told us that there were six German tanks reported coming up the road from Baccarat and that we were to got out and lay for them. As we pulled into position about 900 yards from the highway I noticed a French wagon loaded with hay, standing on the road to our direct front. I was standing on the ground beside one of my guns (M8 Assault Gun) observing in the direction of Chenevieres when one of our armored cars came up the road and passed our front heading to Luneveille. I thought then that were were well ahead of time, until a jeep came zooming up the road and with the driver screaming at the top of his voice, "fire, fire!" I took a quick look around but could not see anything to fire at. A moment later a civilian came out and started to lead away the horse and wwagon, which had remained stationary all this time. The hay wagon had moved only its own length when I saw that three Tiger tanks had been sitting behind it all this time (research indicates that the tanks described as Tigers were in fact Panthers -- an understandable mistake given the circumstances). They had backed off of the highway into the ditch so that only their turrets and guns were visibile to me. I thought afterwards that if I had only known this I would have put a round of smoke into the hay, thus setting it on fire and giving us a little time, for what I still can't imagine. I had two assuault guns, 75mm howitzers with a 53 inch tube and a muzzle velocity of 1900 feet per second* and that definitely is not the type of weapon for a successful tank duel. At that time the Tiger guns looked a mile long and I remember thinking to myself as I watched one of the Tigers bring its gun to bear on my gun, "Wessling, somebody is going to win this fight and it won't be you!" I gave the gun chief the fire order, with range 1000 yards. He said, "But I've already told the gunner 800." So I told him to fire anyway and get one out there to adjust on. Just as his gun went off, I saw the muzzle smoke from the Tiger and I started to drop to the ground beside my gun. I had been standing upright in the open field observing through my glasses. As I got halfway down there was a blinding flash and a terrific explosion and I was kknocked down the rest of the distance I had yet to go to the ground. The Tiger's first round hit 10 yards in front, just a little to the right of my gun, putting 14 holes of various sizes and shapes in me. I ran about 10 yards to the edge of the woods where Capt. Welsh was crouched down to have him tie my handkerchief around my right wrist, which had been punctured by a piece of shrapnel and wes bleeding badly. I told my halftrack driver to get the halftrack, which had been backed into the woods, out of there and told my guns to go to the other side of the dirt road to our right** and continue firing from the better cover there. One never got there as his track was blown off. I then ran about a hundred yards through the woods to the dirt road where Capt. Welsh, Capt. Harris, and Major Potts were standing. I said to Welsh, "What do we do now?" and he said, "You're not going to do anything, you're going to the medics." I said I wouldn't go and about that time he and the 1st Sergeant threw me in a bantam and the sergeant drove me off to the medics, who were further back in the woods. I remember seeing C Troop lined upon the the dirt road in their vehicles facing me as I rode out. At the cross roads I saw Major Pitman for the last time (MAJ Pitman was killed by artillery fire later that day). He was standing beside the road and asked me what was going on down there. What happened after that I got from Capt. Welsh. I had fired the first shot that day around 0830 and it was after five when the rest of the troop got back to the other side of Luneville. We lost four of our six guns, and three halftracks. Two men in the troop were killed. Cpl. Campbell from Idaho, a gunner in the first platoon, was killed when an 88 pierced the front of his gun, and Pvt. Caldernone from New York, Brooklyn I believe, was hit in the heart as he was running down the road. One man besides myself was wounded. Sgt. Tillotson from Idaho, who was the crew chief in the 1st Platoon, was wounded above his right eye when a shell glanced off the turret shield, taking the .50 caliber A.A. gun, mount and all, on its way by. We had miraculously few casualties considering that not only were the Germans pouring everything they had at us but also our own artillery was dumping big stuff in the area. It took E Troop about three months to recover from that day's work, at least it was that long before all of our equipment was replaced. The men whose veihcles were demolished lost everythign they owned. I was more angry at the Germans because thaty had filled my clean clothes full of holes and blood and got all my equipment, than I was because they had shot me up." * This comment makes me wonder if the M8 HMCs carried AP ammo, as muzzle velocity probably wouldn't have been a consideration with either HE or HEAT. ** "Dirt road to our left" in this scenario. Scenario Notes: 1) Given the fairly even matchup of forces here, what I have done is to put a string of large flags along the main road and around key terrain features (farms, wood edges overlooking the main road, etc.), with no 'unit exit mapboard side' for the Germans. Instead it's simply a contest to see who can control this section of the Baccarat-Luneville road. I had a "Germans exit to the North" parameter put in, but with the forces given that probably would have been too much to have asked of them. In any event, the Americans will certainly have ample opportunity to "lose every tank in F Troop," just as they did in the actual battle. 2) If you have the computer horsepower and the bandwidth, this could be a really good PBEM scenario. 3) If you're into playing scenarios "hotseat," this could also be a good one. I don't think that the AI will give you any kind of decent challenge here though.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: Right Grunto IV. Sure.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> the quotes you appended don't matter one way or another, and neither do they prove or disprove whether the soviets were planning an attack of their own in 1941. andy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: The Russian front vet I talked to proclaimed, practically on a stack of bibles, that they passed huge stockpiles of equipment on the Soviet border in June 1941 as Barbarossa began. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> if you read the late version of scorched earth, carrel (carell?) mentions that when the soviet archives were opened up around 1990, that it was learned that the soviets were preparing to attack germany that same summer - 1941 - and were caught with their proverbial pants down. this might explain the huge stockpiles of equipment. andy

the 'joachim scholl in russia' looks like b.s. for starters, the dates for citadel appear to be wrong. on the other hand, the bobby woll one and the one from the radio operator sound like they could be authentic to me. andy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene: They do make it seem like they could drive their Tigers around with impunity wherever they went in Russia and that 4 or 5 Tigers were a match for an entire company of Russian tanks... If T34's were such pushovers the Germans would not have needed to build Panthers. The Normandy accounts seem a little more believable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> at long range, tigers were very tough on t-34s. it was in close range fighting that parity was met. cmbo doesn't model the long range german optical advantges. andy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stalin's Organ: regardless of how good you think the rules are, they are still utterly irrelevant unless you can show the figures that went into them, and if yuo can do that then why bother mentioning the rules in the first place?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> everyone knows; asl was the ultimate in realism. andy

in advanced squad leader, the is/2 is a better tank (without considering range) than the panther. the 75LL (Panther, Jgdpz IV/70) has penetration of 23. the 122L (IS/2) has penetration of 25. the 88LL (tiger II, Jagdpanther, Elephant, Nashorn) is 27 Frontal kill numbers (at range 7-24): all frontal, hull/turret hit 122L versus: panther 7/11 kt -1/7 elephant 7/7 75LL versus IS/2 -3/5 88LL versus IS/2 1/9 this shows that the IS/2 was more formidable at intermediate ranges than some here are willing to give it credit for. i hope this will be modelled in cm2. andy