Rake
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Posts posted by Rake
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Playing through this scenario and pulled three tanks into the bocage near the 'Flank German Tank" location. Two of the three spotted the PzIV and were given fire orders. Neither tank fired for the entire minute. During this time, I moved the third into a position where it could have a better shot.
During the next minute, with all three tanks having LOS to the PzIV, again none of the tanks fired... all crewmen were listed as "spotting" (except one driver who was "driving" except they didn't noticeably move).
I "Quick" moved one of the two remaining tanks to the gap in the hedgerow and gave it a "Hunt" order from the gap with a covered arc. Once it spotted the tank, it stopped moving and, again, did not fire for the remainder of the turn. So, now I've got four tanks with eyeballs on a German tank that's pounding away on Fauville and none of the four will shoot.
Finally, I gave the Sherman that had moved through the bocage a "Target" order and, after waiting until only about 15-20 seconds remained in this turn, they began to fire with the .50 Cal. and just before the end of the turn fired the main gun.
That is where I've stopped. The German tank has been penetrated but is not yet shown as destroyed. I have a couple of save files, just not continuous through the action... I was getting so annoyed that I just kept hitting "Go" to see if the Shermans were ever going to fire.
Admittedly, two of the three original tanks had gray LOS to the PzIV, but the third was blue when given the "Target" command. Even the tank that finally fired had blue LOS to the PzIV, but took over 40 seconds to even begin to fire.
I'm certainly hoping this is a bug. If not, it's a rather irritating feature.
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Dunno, but hand crafting assaults using split squads is better than using the assault command - only one element gets supressed in the event of defensive fire and you can keep the heavy firepower providing supression whist the SMGs go in.
As a result of my "handcrafted" assault, I'm coming 'round to that idea. My question is which movement command to use. "Hunt" obviously won't work because the assault team will stop upon contact. The lack of situational awareness with a "Quick or "Fast" order is a concern and "Move" is usually to slow. "Quick" with a covered arc would seem to be the best choice in most circumstances. And, what about the situation where the overwatch team might not have LOS to the assault location?
Just curious, because I'm still very new to the CMx2 system and trying to work out the new tactics. Thanks for your reply.
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I like the "new" system . Much more sophisticated and far better than the lines i think.
For the first several games, I was in complete agreement with the OP. Now that I've gotten used to looking for the red "X" in the GUI, I don't miss them at all. The new system is much cleaner.
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1 Once you have split a squad for some purpose what is the best way to reconstitute the squad later.1) Just move them to the same spot (square) and leave them there.
I'm finding that this doesn't always work. I've noticed in a couple of scenarios that teams directed to the same action spot have not rejoined. It happened with a scout team that I sent out in "Busting the Bocage" and again while playing the second TF Raff scenario after splitting a squad to take the "Investigate Activity" location. I'm absolutely certain that I had the teams from the same squad in both circumstances.
In the Raff scenario, the team leader four a four man team was on the right side of the other team while the remaining three were directly adjacent to the left; they finally rejoined after sitting side by side for three or four minutes. It was annoying because I'd wanted to use the squad to assault a location... as it was, I had to use a "Quick" command with one team and a covered arc followed by "Quick" for the other team in the next turn.
Bug or feature?
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When I grab the screen of CMBN, I just get black.
Same here. Running Win7 Ultimate with dual monitors. I get a nice shot of my desktop on the second monitor, but just black on the CMBN screen.
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Michael, thanks for posting this scenario. I look forward to playing it. I’ve downloaded the file and opened the map in the scenario editor just to look around at the terrain. I had planned (and likely still will at some point) to build a map of this area once my enthusiasm for playing has tempered somewhat… this could be a while.
My first impression upon opening the map was “nicely done”. My only question is in regard to the depth of the draws. I understand that “Purple Heart Draw” was a deep ditch, but it appears to be more of a small canyon in your scenario. OTOH, I have no detailed information that would indicate that your portrayal is incorrect, either.
All of the information that I have is the map that you use for your tactical map, some aerial photographs from the ‘40’s and Google Earth. Nothing has detailed contour information that would show an approximate depth of the ditches.
Aerial photos show the “scar” along the top of the ditch and I would venture that, at their widest, the ditch is the width of the roadways shown in the picture, or roughly 6 meters (20 feet). As the action tiles are 8 meters, I understand that it’s not possible to accurately model this in the game and that some license has to be taken. But, in looking at the elevations in the editor, the bottom of the ditch as you have it modeled is approximately 6 meters below the adjacent ground and as much as ten or eleven meters (33 – 37’) in some places.
My sense is that this is far deeper that the actual ditch, but again I have no firsthand knowledge. I’m curious if you have some information that shows the draws to be as deep as you show them or if you’ve actually been on the ground to verify their depth. Beyond that, is there anyone else on the forum that can help clear this up for me?
Thanks in advance,
Rake
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Two things come to mind, a tanker taking a dip in the heat of battle and the levitating landser.
Wish I could have taken screens of each, but for some reason, when I try to paste a game capture into Photoshop, all I get is a blank (black, because that's my foreground color) screen.
Anyhow, the first was after a tank crew bailed from a burning Sherman in my first go-round with the demo tutorial. The crew ran towards the farm, got into a skirmish with the Germans there and the sole American survivor ran off to the creek. He started across and dove completely "underwater"... he never resurfaced. He wasn't shot, but I believe he was driven to ground by falling mortar rounds nearby. I imagine he was wounded or killed while lying on the stream bed as an airburst went off directly overhead just after he submerged.
The second happened just yesterday and I'm guessing, with 5/21 having been the day of judgement, that the levitation was either (a) divine intervention, or (
demonic possession. I was running through the third battle of the tutorial campaign and the Americans had just stormed the trench. The German was hit in the back just as he leapt from the trench. He fell backwards and suspended in mid air a foot or so above the top of the trench... He stayed that way for the last minute and a half of the game.Aside from the occasional visual quirk, the game is spectacular. The more I get used to the CMx2 interface, the more I love it. I only played CMSF a handful of times, and then just to acquaint myself with differences from CMx1. I spent more time messing around with the map editor.
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My status says "confirmed" so I assume its not shipped yet. They could be going alphabeticly in that case I am an S. I guess we'll see in a day or 2.
Doubt they're going alphabetically. I got the email today and, like you, I ordered on 3/12. Edit: I'm a 'T'
More than anything, I'm looking forward to a hard copy of the manual. Alt/Tabbing to view the pdf is a pita...
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The plan:
I will start with a pre-planned smoke screen that will be provided by my 10.5 cm leFH 18.
This smoke screen should help the 1.Zug to cross the open ground infront of them unharmed.
The HMG's will supress enemy ATG's and infantry as will the PSW's to while being hull down in the small clearings.
If the smoke screen is deployed i will move the 1. and 2.Zug forward.
1.Zug will advance through the ocharde in the middle and infiltrate the village.
2.Zug will advance on the right flank and capture the crossroads and dug in there to provide flanking fire into the village.
My mortars will supress any spotted enemy threats.
Most likely this will be enemy ATG's in the tree line behind the village...
I put my HMG's into hide mode, just like the two Rifle Platoons. My FO has a short cover-arc so he not opens up while still spotting. The same goes for the HMG Section leader and a Panzerschreck team of the 1.Zug.
I have positioned the Company HQ close to the mortars, the FO is in radio contact with this HQ, so he can spot for the on-map mortars too.
Let the battle begin...
Just finished this as Germans, WeGo, Elite. Total Victory with 146 points for the Americans.
As in the video AAR, I pushed both Zugs down the middle. I didn't feel that one would have sufficient firepower to provide suppression while assaulting. Started with an artillery barrage on the town center with the mortars providing the smoke. First platoon moved quickly to the edge of the orchard under cover of smoke and artillery. As soon as they reached the hedgerow, the second platoon moved up.
By this time, Panthers had arrived and they took up overwatch positions on the hilltop. After a second, short (linear) barrage on the American front line, the first Zug assaulted and moved easily into the first row of buildings. The second soon followed.
Once I had secured the Command Post it was mostly just mopping up. The kitties had taken out three or four of the Shermans, plus one of the M10's, by this time and the rest were playing mouse with the cats. One Sherman had sped into town before a Panther could nail it and this tank caused most of the problems that I had inside town. Some smoke from a Marder and a sneaking 'schreck team finally took care of it. Neither AT gun was a factor after one took out an armored car that I got careless with (I didn't think they had LOS and I left it sitting. MEMO to self: When in doubt, MOVE FAST). The gun died quickly with a short mortar barrage.
One M10 sat in the same position as the "badass M10" in your game. The only way to reach it from the positions I was in was to move one of my Panthers to the road... along with a couple of Marders and a PSW for bait, the M10 was distracted long enough for the Panther to get the kill.
Two of the American TD's survived, but both were hiding at endgame. Oddly enough, one had moved to the east edge of the board and sat there for at least 15 minutes with his gun aimed off the board. There was no damage noted at the end of the game. The other M10 had its optics destroyed during an exchange where it immobilized an armored car... it just pulled back behind the hill and sat out the rest of the fight.
I lost two Marders and one PSW. One of my Panthers and the PSW mentioned above were immobilized. One of the Marders died while trying to KO the M10 on the hilltop road; the other just decided not to reverse after a shoot and scoot... if he'd left after the ten-second pause he might have lived to try again.
So far, the game has exceeded my abundant expectations. I tried RT in the Tutorial scenario last night and will NEVER play RT again. I just can't move around the board fast enough, even with pauses, to keep up with what's going on. The worst part was taking a Minor Defeat because I lost track of time. I had multiple squads less than ten meters from both of the VL's when time unexpectedly ran out.
Anyhow, thanks BF!!! Superb game, can't wait for the whole enchilada.
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My first war game was 3-D, circa 1960. I was around 6 at that time.
I had a mobile, model tank (modeled after the Pershing, IIRC) that ran on D batteries via wire control... moved forward, reverse, turned and fired plastic ammo. I'd line the jerries up a la Pickett's charge and fire the full loadout (three). The ones that didn't die from fire were overrun
Later, I "graduated" to just about all that AH had to offer, starting with Blitzkrieg all the way up through SL and ASL. There were a few SPI games in there as well. Unfortunately, there were no others locally that shared my passion so I wound up pushing the cardboard around by myself.
Been lurking (witness my post count) around the forums since '99, joined in '01. I've owned and played many computer games... CM is the one that keeps bringing me back.
Now, please release this game!
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Can't be moving my very heavy duty desktop to the LR. Already put me in the hospital when I tried getting it out of the box.
Erwin... Believe me, I understand. Shipping weight on mine was 70#; UPS guy was not happy
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... I'm thinking about buying myself a notebook that's good enough for running the game on medium - good settings (just for the sake of playing comfortable on the couch
).Guess how tickled I was once I discovered that a 25' HDMI cable was just long enough to run from my brand new, high end, CMBN ready desktop to my (semi)big screen tv
I'd been playing around with CMSF on my laptop through the TV; then my desktop arrived! I couldn't believe the difference between the laptop on medium settings and the desktop on full.
CMBN will be sweet!!! :cool:
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Bopth of those dates are consistent with when I will be on the road, so I am guessing that they are right.
Of course, so am I.
Well, at least I'll be able to dl onto my laptop while on the road... I'll have to wait until I get home on Sunday to load it up on the desktop and play on the 52" big screen
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You can do whatever you'd like with your monkey... no need to ask and, please, don't tell us about it
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A promo video might be delayed slightly because they're trying very hard to keep the game from being delayed! The process is rather like watching those plate-spinning acts on old variety TV shows.
Regarding a promo video... I giveth not the hiney of a small, obnoxious rodent. Please, do NOT delay the game!
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Maps built to fit a particular battle (most of them) often find the designer, quite unconsiously, placing that convenient clump of trees over there or that handy ditch out of LOF over here. After getting accustomed to those scenarios a 'reality-based map' can leave a player at a loss. "100m of open field to cross against MG fire? what in hell am I supposed to do with that?" The answer should be "I've given you all the tools that they had at their disposal. So go to it!" How a tactical problem gets solved is hardly the scenario designer's concern. His job is just to present the problem. Some people really really dislike those sorts of scenarios.
This was my purpose when I started this thread.
I'm interested in portraying, as nearly as possible, what the terrain might have actually looked like. As you say, how the problems presented are solved are none of my business. Make the ground first, then leave it alone once the forces are added.
I've played several scenarios in CMBO/BB/AK that seemed like I was connecting the dots... Squad A overwatches while Squad B dashes to this cover, Tank C supresses while Squad D moves to the next piece of cover. It was like a path to the VL's was laid out purposely. I tinkered a bit with scenario design in CMBB (nothing published) and found myself doing the same thing with my maps.
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So... you mean if no changes you wouldn't be able to lay down those gentle curves in roads in Rake's picture? Uggh. I hope not.
I seriously doubt it. If you think about it; in a "square-based" system, like the action points in CMSF/CMBN, everything pretty much has to fit long the cardinal/ordinal points of the compass. It would be one heck of an editor that would allow us to freehand the placement of terrain features... not to mention the programming needed.
Check out this overhead pic from the Bois de Baugin AAR. Everything runs N-S, E-W, NE-SW, NW-SE:
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LLF... absolutely, trying to exactly replicate any real-life map is impossible. Everything, elevation points, roads, buildings, fences... they all only fit along the cardinal/ordinal points. With any square (or hex) based system there will be limitations built in.
My thoughts on creating a map in the editor to simulate an existing parcel of land are to:
(a) build a contour map as accurately as possible.
(
fit the road system as closely as possible to the original without "disrupting" LOS by placing multiple bends along the road. If the road runs, say North 12 degrees East, I'll run the road Due North. If the original road has a major curve, I'd locate any bends with an eye toward fitting "tangent" sections as they really exist. There will certainly be some "fudging" necessary.© revisit the topography to make certain that the roads fit the land. Roads generally run along contour lines. Where roads cross a hilltop, they usually lie in a "cut" section created either by years of use or, in modern times, a bulldozer. Swale crossings require either a bridge or a built up "fill" section. In any event, this will require adjustment of elevation points so that the road lies naturally and not running straight up or down hill and always sitting "on top" of the terrain model.
(d) once I'm happy with the contouring and road system, then I'll lay out buildings. Once again, especially for large (multi-action point) buildings and on steeper terrain, this will likely mean further adjustment of elevation points... buildings usually sit plumb, not perpendicular to the land
(e) after the buildings are in place, it's time to place fences, hedgerows, treelines, etc. Again, the editor will only allow placement along the major compass points so more "fudging" is needed..
(f) fill the fields with appropriate grass, orchards, marsh, water features (ugh, as an engineer, I hate landscape architecture phrases)... Can't wait to see what's available in the editor. This is where I think the science becomes art.
(g) place and position flavor objects... I can see where this will take some time to get right, too.
(h) test drive, make adjustments and repeat.
As I get a map built, I'd be looking for those with more interest toward scenario design than I currently have. OOB research and TO&E are not in my main areas of interest.
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I have been musing over the map scenario creation for a bit now and I am sure the Betas can chime in here, but- wouldn't it seem a better process if we used either maps or aerial photos to get an idea of the size and layout of a similar piece of topography and then go from there?
Having done some previous mapping, my biggest lesson I took away from it was a) Do your homework (i.e., research) first.
Run that through multiple on-paper versions before committing to the in-game editor. c) Check scale and ingress/egress/chokepoints with objectives, etc., etc. d) Rinse and repeat until you're satisfied this is the map you really want to invest so much time in making....and we haven't even started testing the map yet. *whew*
I'm just playing around with the CMSF editor to prepare for the release. I've placed some topo over an aerial photo and came up with this:
http://photorake.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v5/p586178032-5.jpg
I fully agree on the research. I've got a small scale plot of this map... I would need something far larger to actually work from. I don't see any need to go farther with what I've done in CMSF, no sense putting down olive and palm trees in a Normandy map.
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Thanks for the warning on time required!!!! I will feel it a duty to do atleast one large map before I pop my clogs. Being familiar with France/ Normandy should help - those Allo Allo episodes will not be wasted : )
I'm sure maps can be built much more quickly; drag a few contours and roads around the map, slap down a few buildings, plant some trees, paint some fields and grass and your done. But, for me, much of the immersion factor for this game comes from the map quality. I've opened many scenarios in CMBO, CMBB, CMAK and CMSF and exited without playing once I'd looked around the map. I also played very few QB's in Cmx1 primarily because of map quality... some were just terrible.
For the map I worked on yesterday, I was attempting to replicate the topography and roads from this map:
http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/100-13/mp16.jpg
It takes time jumping from the editor to desktop to scale contours. Moving from the editor into 3D mode to make sure the roads fit with the lay of the land and then back again to make adjustments... The rest of the landscape (houses, trees, etc.) will require similar time. I'm guessing that a quality map could take a month or more of part-time effort... and that's not counting the time that I'd actually be playing the game.
It sure would be nice to be able to import map (scenario) files from CMSF into CMBN. I'm assuming this won't be possible?
Larger forces also meant you could have decent combined arms : )I suspect it will take decent combined arms at company level to cross a small bocage map.
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Guys just keep in mind the maths - 4k x4k = 250000 action spots.
The large CMSF maps were pretty empty when the expanses of desert etc are taken into account. Normandy is not like that. I've built a detailed 2k x 2k CMBN map (only 62500 action pots) and it's pretty massive and crossing it in a tactical manner is going to take time.
Not to mention the time involved just making the map. I spent the better part of the day messing with the editor in CMSF just building the base layout for a 1.25k x 1.6k map (only 31,200 action spots). All I got finished was the topography and the road system. If I were in CMBN, I'd still have the bocage, fences, buildings, driveways, farm lanes, trees, streams, etc. , plus "painting" the various fields and placing flavor objects.
I can see right now that a good CMBN map will take a some time. There's a huge difference between Normandy and the desert or the steppe. Personally, I don't see any need for much more than a square kilometer for much of the area encompassed by this game. Then again, I have no desire to game an entire regiment either.
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I've posted more in the last 30 days than in the previous 122 months and still average less than one post every five months since joining.
I've no idea why I'm posting in a thread about wine...
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There is also some mismatches in terms of a 2500yard advance requiring thirty-four hedge breachings - contrasted to average fields being 200yards x 400yards. [because the fields are small, about 200 by 400 yards in size, and usually irregular in shape, the hedgerows are numerous and set in no logical pattern]
Below is a link to a topo from http://www.history.army.mil overlaid on an aerial photo from http://loisirs.ign.fr/accueilPVA.do (many thanks, JonS). The area covered by this map is roughly 1250 x 1600 yards.
I can see thirty-four breachings...
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There is also an online copy of the 1947 Air Survey done in France. It is quite detailed and a great improvement on any map you will find in books. Scale is roughly 1:25000.
Jon... This is sweet! I hadn't looked around enough to find this. Many thanks!!! :cool:
demonic possession. I was running through the third battle of the tutorial campaign and the Americans had just stormed the trench. The German was hit in the back just as he leapt from the trench. He fell backwards and suspended in mid air a foot or so above the top of the trench... He stayed that way for the last minute and a half of the game.
).
TF Raff "Link Up" Tanks Won't Fire
in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy
Posted
Okay, I just went back and reviewed my earliest "Save" file. It is the turn where the fourth tank pulls up through the gap in the hedgerow. As it pulls through the gap with the "Hunt" command, it spots the tank clearly and stops. It then loses LOS ( the PzIV becomes a "?").
The three tanks in the hedgeow all have "Gray" LOS to the German tank at this point. Due to the angle that they are aligned to the bocage, I suppose it's possible that fire is blocked. But, it seems to me if they have any kind of LOS it would be able to fire the main gun because if anything is poking its head through the bocage it would be the business end of the 75.
The next turn, I gave the fourth tank additional "Hunt" commands to get back into LOS. Again with a narrow covered arc, the Sherman sighted the PzIV and declined to shoot. It wasn't until the next turn, when I gave it a "Target" command that it finally fired... after checking the times, it opened up with the MG with 9 seconds left in the turn and fired the 75 with 8 seconds left and again just before the end of the turn.