dieseltaylor

I have wrestled with whether to add anything further and on balance I think it is fair to give everyone the chance to link this site: http://pictureshistory.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/when-american-and-british-soldiers-went.html It makes unpleasant reading as one reads the various topics. One suspects that if we were there at the time perhaps we would not be so holier than thou in certain instances. Arguably rape and torture are less terrible than murder, but in I am not attempting to make any value judgements, or minimise anyones excesses before , during and after the war. I do believe that there was a degree of cover-up and our view of what really happened is perhaps a little tinted by the victor writes the histories and generally glosses over the nasty bits. Read it and discard what you like. If you want a thread tied to this then start in the General Discussion forum.

Europe! Train bells? 1944? Were is the resident train grog? Also we might consider what are the chances of any loco being within 20 miles of the action.!

AB41 excerpt from Wikipedia The actual speed on roads should also be an advantage. It would be interesting to see how fast a Semovente can traverse and engage the Ab41's at speed.

Oh Sgt Joch I expect you to sift what is written and asses the probabilities like any thing else you read. Does that include Patton's speeches? They certainly embarrassed other officers. And this seems an odd phrasing: However I am not really interested in it as a pissing contest as there is no doubt who killed more prisoners unlawfully. One of the Axis Countries or Russia : ) The point I made was no side was completely clean of non-combat murders and I think you seem to accept that now - even if bizarrely you use the phrase "very clean".

Childress - perhaps you should know Hawkings was born normal! In any event I think we are talking of children born with serious defects. Regrettably we are now moving to the weird end of things with the advent in the UK of a National Health Service paying your costs people are removed from the practicalities of the situation. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/nov/15/health.uknews No logically we know women can have multiple babies, we also now that the world is not short of humans so my take is that as far as possible the odds should be stacked for healthy children to be born. I have two fine children after two still-births so I have some interest in the matter.

Matilda II being a notable exception with its effective armour all round and only a 2pdr. http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=64:matilda-mk-ii-infantry-tank-a12&catid=38:infantry-tanks&Itemid=56

To be fair it was one mostly country against all of Europe over roughly 25 years so the surrendermonkeys did quite well. I am glad you took up the gauntlet as Jason's comment: Seemed very harsh on those who fought gallantly in wars but lost. So going on his principle it is the result that matters and excuses are of no interest. Very Pattonesque.

Rickusty - Nice to have a new light on the Italian perspective. I was wondering if the professional services - that is the Navy and the Airforce - being more technical had high proportions of intelligent and committed men than the army. I suspect the US services like the Air Force , Navy, and Marines all feel superior to the footsloggers. Probably true also of the UK and other countries.

You are probably right VAB. Though history will show both embarked on wars which they lost.

Try to keep up Lt. ! : ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscari_Massacre From this concurrent thread. http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?p=1439729#post1439729

I just wondered how it would read when I changed the countries.

Very good post Rickusty. I am shocked by the revelation of the *De-mobilization* which is bonkers. It is very saddening that so many died for such a tinpot dictator.

So I am now thinking that if I play the AI I can induce it to run out of ammo from its big guns by putting infantrymen out as targets!!! Brilliant : ) BTW I do appreciate the thread.

I admire your grammatical style but I think you have doublecounted the Biscari figures as the total was 71. The other thread I linked to has another couple of Sicilian cases but for the fuller story: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewforum.php?f=6 where they have separate forums for the various sides. All horrific.

http://allworld.startlogic.com/Gebirgsjager-in-Ukraine-1941-42.html for more piccies.

I am quite impressed with this one. : ) http://www.alternet.org/sex-amp-relationships/welcome-masturbate-thon?akid=10398

I suspect which game might be useful. I mention that as there is a difference is acquiring a pre-loved computer with games on, and buying a CD. I suspect that BF would rather you bought a new game : )

Sgt Joch This is an informative thread about the massacres that occurred http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=24614 Note how long West was jailed in reality - less than a year and drawing full-pay. That for massacring 37 people in cold blood. I don't quite see the point of dragging in the Russian prisoners and also the German prisoners that died in captivity when those two were fighting. They were appalling. The thrust of my points is that no army was really clean. The democracies were best by a huge margin but then again at no stage where their homelands being invaded and the country short of food. It is a good thing that the problem never arose as choosing to starve your prisoners or your workforce is a tricky one. The point is whether the democracies having set themselves a very high standard then failed . That it is understandable in the heat of battle is very not acceptable when it is cold blood and High Command colludes in cover-ups - or possibly incites the troops. Patton Seems to be a believer in eugenics!

Lucas - I was rather thinking of the 5 year plans and how they were sold to the world and the people. Officers lying is a given in systems where failure is probably a death sentence. However the info you reveal is good as I am not a grog of the East Front other than the vehicles so it is all interesting.

AFAIR Patton in Sicily saying the only good German was a dead one. Some of his troops took him at his word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscari_Massacre Apocal Seems a bit petty not to give credit to those who did fight with honour simply because the nation as a whole was complicit with the war. If you are American we might ask about the Indian Wars and others. I doubt many large nations are guiltless sometime during their history of having done the very things that we now bring up to say how awful the Germans were in the 30's-40's. And yes it is awful and horrific what occurred. Perhaps more galling is post-war we have seen Western democracies guilty of promoting or prolonging wars and revolutions. Genocide by remote meddling?

I think you are insulting Russia here : )

Whilst the thread is interesting for what it uncovers in terms of performance I am left wondering if this navel gazing will actually add much to the game for most players. For recreation of a particular battle I can imagine much tweaking may take place so the result looks right but against the coarser background including the 8 metre AS it does seem an overly sensitive. I am not decrying those who wish to fight re-enactment level but for most players just having a fun game is good enough. I would hate to have learn all the subtleties of conscript, green, regular matrixed against motivation against leadership to appreciate which troops are fragile despite being a higher level/better commanded. Given a finite time on earth when I play I want it reasonably simple.

Oh very pithy. Perhaps Corpse commander? : )

Brilliant. What other countries do this? I doubt it is as obvious as these restrictions The downloadable photographs from the Wartime Photograph Archive can be used by anyone. When you publish a photograph from the archive, mention "SA-kuva" as the source. You may not use the photographs to mislead people. You may not use the photographs for unlawful or inappropriate purposes.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/popular-german-tv-star-was-secretly-a-nazi-documents-reveal-20130503-2iwqc.html Slightly relevant to the thread is this article which to my mind highlights a bizarre attitude to the past. Halting the potential re-runs of a popular German series seems to me to hurt the pockets of the other actors [i assume repeat fees apply in Germany] rather than impress. Working on the basis of innocent until proved guilty has been a pretty solid idea for society. If the crime was not prosecuted then - every member of an SS Division was guilty - it seems exceedingly weird to take action on a TV series. Of course if specific evidence came to light then that may be another matter but for the moment it looks like a stupid knee-jerk reaction.