il carabiniere

Gunslinger, the URL 's dead! Can you please re-post it? Thanks.

My choice: -Waterloo, I can't wait for a real-time Napoleonic game, but it is disappointing it will cover one battle only! -Age of Sails II looks quite promising. -German/Ukraine co-produced "Cossacks" seems quite good as well. It appears to be somewhat better than Age of Kings, and covers a more interesting period from the military point of view. To Spook and M. Bates: CM applied to Napoleonic battles has been discusssed extensively on this forum. Look for the prevoius thread. ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

I want it! Go for it!

Very good my friend, as an Italian wargamer I can only be happy if CM is promoted also in our country. Keep us informed on your Kataweb's review. Grazie e ciao. ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

Caro audace: la tua osservazione sulla regolare denigrazione delle nostre Forze Armate è assai pertinente. Anche in questa chat, dove gran parte dei partecipanti dovrebbe almeno sapere qualcosa sulla storia della II G.M., si leggono delle cosa raccapriccianti. Per esempio, c'è stato un dibattito se in CM2 (Eastern Front) gli Italiani dovessero essere inclusi (fai un search se ti interessa leggerlo). ebbene, la maggior parte dei pareri erano negativi! (del tipo: gli Italiani non erano in Russia, se c'erano sono stati buoni solo a farsi fare prigionieri, ed amenità del genere...). Ho cercato di rispondere fornendo un po' di informazioni storiche, ma è incredibile tanta ingoranza anche tra gli "addetti ai lavori". Quindi, ti sollecito (ed anche tutti gli altri members Italiani) a non mancare di far sentire la loro voce quando leggono simili bestialità. Odio essere retorico, ma forse è un piccolissimo contributo in memoria di centinaia di migliaia di nostri commilitoni che non sono più tornati a casa. Ciao e a presto. ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

Welcome onboard Ammiraglio ! Order it right now and in two weeks max you'llinsert the CDE in your drive... Saluti. ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I dont think the Italians played an active enough roll on the easter front to produce any good scenarios for a game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Dear Virtualfreak, Italy sent to the Eastern Fornt an Army Corps (CSIR, "Corpo di Spedizione Italiano in Russia") as early as Fall 1941. Later (1942) it was enlarged to Army size (ARMIR, "Armata Italiana in Russia") made up of 8 fully-equipped divisions including some of Italian Army's finest, i.e. the Alpini (div. Julia, div. Taurinense etc.). All in all, roughly 120.000 soldiers, out of which only some 20.000 came back to Italy after the collapse of the front during the Stalingrad battle. This was a very remarkable war effort on the part of Italy against an "enemy" which very few people, including the military, perceived as such. Indeed, this produced a lot of remarkable feat of arms, which are described in detail in a great number of military history books and biographies (most of them are available in Italian language only, I am afraid). ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I don't think the Italiens did much on the Eastern front except get captured and sent to turn into frozen popsicles in Siberian POW camps.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am sorry Mr. Kommissar but here you got it wrong. FYI, Italians were there and they actually performed a few very remarkable feats of arms, such as the last ever cavalry charge by "Savoia cavalleria" in summer 1942 (defeating the Russian infantry!) as well the Alpini's breakthrough from the encirclement at Nikolaijewka. As a matter of fact, the 8th Italian Army (named ARMIR or "Armata Italiana in Russia"), together with nearby German divisions including Panzer Divisions, had to hastily retreat from their position on Don river, risking total annihilation, due to a disastrous collapse in the front line to their left, which was defended by a Romanian Army (I do not have history book next to me, I think it was the 3rd Romanian Army). The Russian offensive which routed the Romanian Army was actually a strong diversion attack aimed to stop Von Manstein's attempt to take relief to the besieged German 6th Army in Stalingrad. ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

Milano, Italia

Antonio (PIP) grazie per l'indirizzo, mi sembra davvero interessante. Un elenco molto completo di links sulla IIww si trova sotto: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/ww2lk.htm Son d'accordo che per ora abbiamo tutto il tempo per goderci CM1 (e poi CM2)! Luca

a gutsy performance, yeah, I have to admit that... But scoring at 93', weren't they REALLY LUCKY ??? A few seconds more and we'd be talking about how well Italy played. Ciao ragazzi.

Pienamente d'accordo PIP, dovremmo offrire il nostro supporto documentale relativamente almeno al ruolo delle nostre Forze Armate nel teatro Africa/Mediterraneo. Se qualcuno ha qualche idea di come organizzarci in proposito, si faccia avanti! Chissà che questa volta non si riesca ad avere una rappresentazione veritiera delle nostre unità... Ciao a tutti. Luca

ciao ragazzi: Sembra che ci uno sparuto gruppetto di Italiani nel "club". Ho ordinato il gioco in gennaio, sono a Milano. E voi?

Si ragazzi, strange enough CM has found its way to Milano in a reasonable time! If we have recieved it here, I guess anybody else in world having pre-ordered must be paying in this moment. Maybe this explains the sharp reduction in chat messages I noticed in the last days. Bye folks, vado a giocare. ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

knaust is right. thomasj, you may be right in saying that winners usually write history, but think for a moment about a few FACTS: - roughly six millions jews were killed in death camps, death marches, mass executions etc. Maybe the figure has been inflated somehow, you may disagree on the the actual count, but we are talking about huge numers of people, without any comparable precedent in human history. - from a simply technical point of view, this mass murder has required the active co-operation of a very large number of executioners (Goldhagen's "willing executioners"). We are talking about hundreds of thousand, even though reliable statistics do not exist. Many of them were not Nazi party members, most did that "job" not because they were compelled but just because they felt they were doing the right thing. Many had a wife and children at home, but even then, some of them would not refrain from sending home the pictures of their victims (kids and women among them) being shot during the mass executions! - how could that happen is a highly civilised, culturally and scientifically advanced country like Germany? This is really the point. Being ashamed or not being ashamed for what your grandfather or your grandfather's comrades did is of very little interest to me. What is important, instead, is understanding how a man and a political party were able to turn a significant portion of their citizens into murderers, and this in just a few years. Only this would teach us some useful lessons, in order to avoid that history repeats itself. Anyhow, I really think the thread should be closed because I really cannot see the logical link with BTS' beutiful game, but some of the sentences I have read here made me jump on my chair! ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

I live in Italy and -surprise surprise- I have not received it yet (but I do not believe in miracles !) ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

Those seem to be some interesting statistics. As far as I'm concerned: 34 years old, married, 1 kid. Wargaming since 1982 (first buy: Avalon Hill's "Blitzkrieg" -does anybody remember?). Computer wargaming since 1993 (first buy: SSG's "Carriers at war".) I am a banker and I've served in Italian Army as a Leutenant in Carabinieri. ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

I join the team. I want the developers to get the reward of the good job they've done, and invest it in CM2 ! ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari

I fully agree with Jeff. As a wargamer since some 20 years now, I feel grateful for what BTS is doing for improving WWII computer games. I'm looking forward to the moment I will finally receive the game -I just hope the mailing to Italy will not create trouble! Ciao a tutti. ------------------ S.Ten.® Lunari