Demangel

All this talk about the russian front makes me wanna see a Cm version of the war in the pacific... Possibly complete with sea battles, as well as island hoping battles? MAYBe even some hypathetical battles for the japanese mainland? Oh well... As it sounds to me About this whole who did more thing in WWII... The russians do sound like they took the worst beating and made porbably the biggest differance... But... As it's been said numerous times... Their personel wheren't the best... Kinda reminds me of something you'd see in starship troopers... or maybe robotech... All these bugs dying by the thousands... just to kill one guy... But their where so many bugs, Or so many Zentredi losing a thousand units to kill one better unit is worth it... Kinda like sacrificing a 44 rifle squad to take out a lone king tiger maybe? Well whatever... thats my 2 cents...

Sorry if this has been covered before... And this is not meant as a spoiler... but after playing All or Nothing yesterday (all night actiually..) I came to a conclusion which I thought I had noticed a few weeks ago... Is it just me or is the Ai not agressive enough? I don't mean with individual units... I mean with it's objectives... On ALl or Nothing, I played as the Germans... I was appalled by the end of the game when I saw the brits forces, and wondered why they didn't all move on me en mass... and whipe me out... I would say that numbers wise they could have swarmed every position I had since they outnumbered me about 2-1 possibly 3-1... Plus armor... yet they sat on their side of the map not advancing untill turn 70 or so... at which point I brought all my men out of hiding in the town and started to kill brits faster than ever as they came over the big hill. It seems to me that if I hide my men right from the start on almost any map, and try to ambush a lot (as is my favorite tactic) the Ai opponant never moves and just sits there taking pop shots at things it does see... It took the brits till turn 25 before they even tried to cross the primary bridge... but after that they never went uch further for the rest of the match even though they had limited enemy contact. Of course they lost two tanks and their scout car to my ambushing infantry, but my infantry died right after... So why didn't they push foreward... They had a bunch of flag markers all over they had to go for... yet the Ai never even tried... So I eneded up winning even though if the Allies had attacked me as planned I would have had a REALLY hard fight on my hands... I guess this goes to show just how much better a real human opponent is over a computer... Since If I was on the allies side, around turn 40 or so when all my british reinforcements really start showing up would have pushed themm all in to attack the germans but quick... i mean ok a handful of anti tank guns most not all that useful against churchils etc... But the ones that where useful could be made nul and void if I just rushed my men and tanks over onto the big hill and across the primary bridge as fast as I could... I'd lose maybe two or three tanks in the charge for the bridge... Anyone have any thoughts... IS THE AI TOO PUSSYCATISH?! Is there a setting to improve the AI? I saw one that said Computer experience level or something at the start of every map, is that what I am looking for? Someone help me cuz I don't feel like playing long Pbem's lately... But want a slightly better challange than just sitting their waiting for the Ai to do something other than waste my time... It seems to me victory flags mean very little to attacking Ai oponeats... If they don't see an enemy they just sit there. If they do spot something... they try to kill it from 400 m or so... when moving in would be the better way... I mean like when you lose a tank or a pillbox and then a tank sits at 400+m with a big open safe tank lovers dream of a feild in between them and the machine gunner fires but the tank doesn't even try to move up... Well whatever... any input would be great... Oh yeah if you wanna be gamey on this map, just blow the bridges... the wooden one in town... and the train one on the left flank of the german side... I did it on round 74 just cuz I was bored and had little to else to shoot at...

Gf's rule!

Merc I am sorry for blowing my top... It's just When people start throwing comments around like people being ignorant... It sets me off... I forget the post but it was on the first page I think and you said that Lewis's LOL was in indication of his ignorance... It's not that I mind your opinnion... I agree that is what a Message board is for... But try not to go around calling people ignorant... BTS will have the final say nontheless... and to be honest if they add a hull down thing or not matters little to me since I can find one on my own most if not all the time... But it does require some micromanagement of the tank sometimes... sometimes it detracts from the joy of the game, when you know that in the real thing when a tank isn't being fired on it should not have such a hard time finding a hull down position relative to something... (by this I mean totaly Relatively...Ie hull down to one thing is not hull down to another...) But sometimes it is frustarating to truely think you are hull down, only to have your tank to high or low and watch your infantry waiting in ambush getting nailed by tanks you can't hit because you missed the hull down spot by a few feet! Again I apologize for blowing my top... But like I said when people start tossing insults I join in... Maybe you didn't intend it as in insult, but it sounded that way to me... Also as for credentials, My credentials wheren't on trial due to the fact that My opinion was based on your methods of replying to posts... vs Lewis's... (heh plus I was a bit drunk last night... and well we all know what that does...) So no hard feelings all around... lets just be careful, not of what we say... but how we say it ok people... That goes for me as well. I will trouble you all no more...

Heh Sorry Lewis I didn't mean to blow my top, It's just that He was insulting you, and trying to act like he knew everything from the true name of god to the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop... He's put out a few good ideas before... so maybe I should just leave him alone... But it's just that you have made some DAMN good points... and know what your talking about... I agree with you 99% on the idea of putting in some kind of hunt till you find a hull down, thing as you put it in your previous posts... So long as they make it so that it is an imperfect thing (ie sometimes with inexperienced TC's or gunners they expose themselves too much, or not quite enough...) I heard in WWII at one point tank crew where so scarce they trained normal troops on the field to be tank crews... The training consisted of letting them drive it around for a little while and firing the Gun ONCE! So I would say Green crew or whatever would be horrid at finding hull down compared to veteran or even regulars... I dunno... Maybe for tank crews they should add another experience class that is in keeping with the training some normal soldiers got to drive the tanks... Ok Thats all I gotta say...

No I haven't looked at the meta Campaing but I will now that you mentioned it... Ok so far we possibly got one... Need three more!

Thanks that was the kind of answer I was looking for... Though I am not sure just how gamey it would make it... It would for sure be hard to make fair... I mean one second your tank is abandoned the next your spotter team is driving it... LOL I think it could be done... but to be honest the game is fine without it... just thought it might be interesting to have possible... I will use the search to see what others have said, maybe I missed something... THANKS!

Merc I would just like to know what your credentials on the subject are? I mean have you ever driven a tank or even seen one in real life... Merc... No offense... But I just don't think you get it... you keep arguing even when we all tell you repeatedly what we're talking about... I bet your one of those rules mongers when you play table top games arn't you? The kind of person who bitches or finds fault in every thing an oponent does cuz if you don't you can't win by sheer skill alone... Hmmm does this ring a bell? "Hey you rolled that wrong you have to swish your hand three times first before throwing the dice!" Well maybe I'm exagerating but the stuff you argue with Lewis about is not really any different... arguing with him over how he stated something when I'm sure you damn well know what he means... Let me guess you'r gonna pick on my spelling or something arn't you... or maybe my grammer, or maybe just how Use a lot of ...'s Well whatever man... to each his own...

Man America has it's **** to deal with... yet everybody is down on it... Yeah maybe it does suck, but show me one place in the world that is really better? ... All I have to say about this editorial, is this my first reaction to reading it: "Sob" And here I have siad all these nasty things about canada... Loving movies like Canadian Bacon, poking fun at them when I and my maruading band of friend's go across the border to cause mischief... Well no more damnit... Canada your ok with me now... I'll even consider taking your money at my register next time you come to visit... "SOb" ..... So lighten up all you people around the world who hate americans... Chances are we hate you too, but we are bigger than that... we will come bail yer ass out anyway... just cuz we can... and cuz it pisses you off... So come on terrorists, come on rouge states with nukes... Go ahead make our day... maybe the evolution of the species would be speeded up if we turned the face of your country to glass... So to those of you who love us despite our tresspasses, we will love you the same, and those of you who spit on us, we'll keep bailing you out, and helping you out till you hate us so much you finaly realize the "Reason" you hate us so much is cuz you hate yourselves more... then we'll all laugh and point... As the mushrooms sprout of course... oppinions expressed in this post are not to be taken seriously... they are meant to put a smile on your face... not a frown... if you frown you will be beaten severly and tossed into a herd of horny jackalopes till you bleed from every orafice...

I was playing tonight and it hit me... Why isn't it possible for you to reman a weapon (Machine gun or somthing simliar) with other surviving crew or units if the weapon is undamaged... I was playing a home made map, and one of my jeeps was abandoned when an unspotted MG pillbox began firing at it... Nobody was injurred and the jeep didn't display a knocked out status when thew shots danced around it... it also had a mg on it... So why, when the fighting got less intense around the jeep, can't I reman the jeep? I mean if it is undamaged, and the crew just bailed due to danger... shouldn't they be able to climb back on and carry on the fight? Ok sure maybe the tires where hit ok fine, but what about other weapons? or equipment... Even to some lesser degree enemy weapons and equipment? I suppose you would have to make the weapon less effecitve to people not trained with a particular weapon, but in real life, if one guy fires the bazooka, and the other the ammo...why can't you detach a man, any man to carry ammo for him? I'm sure it happened in real life? I'm not comaplaining, but maybe it could add an element to the game... such as capturing weaponry, or making it so that a stationary gun that took not damage could be used by similarly trained men? I mean I played the scenario with the tigers vs the pershings (I can't spell it, let alnoe say it) lost my stationary cannons, at one point and began wondering why I couldn't just take the remaining crew from two of them and make one of em operational again. One of them was just listed as abandoned, so technically I think it should be possible. I as a force of habit I more often than not retarget abandoned vehicles on purpose to make sure they blow up so as to be sure it can't be remanned, or the mg be reclaimed etc... just as you would do in real life (plus it is fun to see em blow up when they are not dangerous), I know on opperations you can and should be sure to obliterate downed vehicles and equipment so you can be sure it won't be repaired and sent back at you later on... but why isn't it remotely possible on just plain ole battles... to complicated to code... Not as realistic as I think it is? Oh well hope one of you CM gurus at BTS can help me out on this one... And I won't offended if I am wrong in my opinion that some weapons can be remanned in real life...

Maybe I am reading your post wrong since I just got done playing this heavenly game all night, but... From what you seem to be describing you are asking two questions... One how did the SMG squad kill the sherman? And then how the hell did they go berzerk and kill other tough things too? Well Heres my answer, and it may be wrong since I am tired and didn't see your game. Any unit has the ability to one degree or another, to take out a tank... It is recognized that just about all units with the exception of flamethrower units, crew from abaandoned vehicles defenses etc, and arty spotters or are crew of some kind of arty. carry grenades... Even if they don't killing a tank is still possible from extreme close range... Imagine this It actually happened to me in the game, and made sense to me... I had created a map that was a large city battle, the Germans had assorted armor, but their crown jewel of the battle was their Panther g(late). It lost a tred when it faced my sherman jumbo, but the jumbo lost the fight badly otherwise... I spent the next 10 turns of the battle trying to knock out the damn thing with Bazzoka teams and rifle grenades all doing little or nothing to take out the little black Cat... Finaly friustrated I realized in real life a squad can close assualt a tank with grenades and such... In fact a grenade is a deadly thing to a tank... With some simply tossing one underneith it is enough to end it's rien of terror, blowing the fuel tank etc... or of course you could climb on top of the tank, throw (more often than not your have to shoot it open) open a hatch, toss in the grenade, or even fire a single shot from your pistol into the open hatch... the grenade will kil almost if not all of the crew, the pistol shot will ricochet around the cabin killing a couple ofmen at least... and lastly their are the vision slits, which are easily penetrated... So if that sherman was close enough to your SMG squad just picture one or two of them climbing on board and tossing in a grenade, or shooting the driver... making the crew bail out and falling victim to the SMg squad... as for the other kills the squad got, it is probably a mixture of fanatasism, and luck... Stranger things have happened on the battlefield than one SMG squad knocking out a few armored foes... I hope this helps you a bit... and if I am totaly misunderstanding you forgive me since my brain shut down as soon as I heard taps play on CMBO about a half hour ago...

GREAT IDEA MAN! The Gaming store I used to hang out in used to do a big game occasionaly with WWII Table top stuff (you know train set trees and landscapes with realistically made men and equipment)... It was somewhat similar... Each man/Woman would be in control of a country and decide who to attack etc... Then a batle would ensue most likely, then another and another, aliences and such where formed while others where broken... I once played a leader of a rebel faction (remmeber this was played with WWII peices but in a imaginary war) My role was not to seize land so much as weaken my enemies (two nations in particular) I didn't much in the way of men an equipment, but it was always up to me how I would strike... Heh fun thing was each strike tended to win me some more equipment and supplies till eventually I overthrew the country and went to war with the countries former allies... Heh We lost that war, but man what a GREAT time it was... The Big game lasted for about 2-3 months playing every wednesday and friday. Wednesday was the day that most often people made descisions based on their politics etc.. Friday was battle night (mainly cuz the battles often lasted for a number of hours... on multiple tables... whereas the planning only took an hour or two on wednesday) I might do something like this myself. I'll have to think about it, but if anyone likes the idea of playing a game like this email me at Demangel@realvamp.zzn.com If I get 4 or more people interested I will seriously consider it. All the battles will be human vs human... Pbem, set in an imaginary war using WWII equipment... Each player will be issued a map of the region outlining what holdings they have, and nuericaly and graphically what forces and resources they have... then once a week each player emails with their plans, and I set up the battles... A week later you'll get your senarios... And then you play amongst yourselves... Each side sending me their results for each turn... The pbem battles must be done within two weeks of being issued, and those who finish early can get a jump on the others by planning new battles... Remmeber I am not trying to steal anyones thunder, I just got so inspired by this thread...THANKS TURRET! So email me if your interested and Maybe I'll set up a CM BIG GAME! Demangel

CMBO Is ALL it is cracked up to be... AND THEN SOME! I often play my own home made scenarios more than those in the game, but I plan on playing them all many times regardless... I can't begin to say how pleased I am with the full CMBO game, the demo was pretty cool, but the full version rules... I have seen some cool stuff as well. In one homemade scenario the americans had to take a capital city type thing (total fantasy battle but hey it's fun right?!) So anyway I was testing the map with my friend and we co commanded the allies... vs the axis... WHAT A FIGHT! This damn panther was tearing up my armor something awfull, till all I had left was one sherman croc... (nasty tank let me tell you) and I didn't want to lose it to a long range shot by the panther... so I opted for bazooka and close in infantry assualts... the damn panther kept crushing my bazooka units because they kept taking long range inaccuratre shots... and by the time they got close they where dead... So inspiration hit me... ok time to send in a veteran rifle squad and pray... The rifle squad got right underneath the panther (actually it is considered on or around it) and a second later I heard a bang... No more panther... no casualties to my men... I decided to use that squad leaders name again... and bump him up to a crack unit for future home made scenarios... As for the cool thing you saw I saw it twice in one game! Another home made scenario I made featuired a few german kubalwagons and such... when they where hit by a tank shell, they both kept on rolling all erratically, and crashed into a building and set the building on fire! CMBO RULES!

I figure this may not be nescessary, but hey what the hell. I wanna hear what is they thing they love best about cm, or any interesting things one finds about this game. For example: What I think is kinda odd yet great about this game is how when your not playing, it can sometimes be more fun just hearing about it. It can be more fun just to talk about this monster than playing it, playing it is great, but I find myself looking back on a good battle of CM like a great first date. While you play the scenario you might not even realize you are loving it, you might be sick of the game when you finish the scenario (it did take how many hours?). but then you run right out go to the battlefront web site and what do you do... HEAD FOR THE FORUM TO TALK ABOUT IT! I think battlefront should encourage maybe a new forum for cm that is just for anecdotes. I mean nothing but war tales of how someone did on a scenario. I love reading the play by play of a pbem from the players points of view... IT RULES! better than watching the video's of it really. So big time software what do you think? A new forum? or too much for you guys to do right now... Anyway in the mean time I hope everyone finds a moment to put something in this topic. So come oneveryone let me hear what you all like best about this game... Let our voices cry out in the night so loud everyone can hear... (inspirational music gets louder) Let the world know there is more to video games than what the others offer... WE SHALL OVERCOME! (big hook comes on stage and pulls me off) Anyway lemme hear it all thanks guys -Demangel

I think the programmers have done an admirable job... I agree the ai could be better, in both human vs computer and human vs human. But I have so far only experienced a handful of things I was po'ed about. Most of which I realized could actually be attributed to some malfunction of my own mind when I planned the manuever. (damn Panzerschrek team damn sherman... Why did you run at the house when the sherman was sitting there looking someplace else... why when you had a nice shot at it;'s side... why when you where not under fire... why when your morall was high and your experience good... why oh why did you run into the house only to be slaughtered.) Anyway the game is great, and I'm sure will have sequals and improvement/patches. It beats trying to get a few friends together who have enough peices let alone nice train scenery to play a nice game of table top wargaming. (at least one oponent and one referie) And even the best game of table top doesn't have that real life animation. But what the two share is this. ever sit down to a table top game and win or lose you find yourself focussing on a particular thing... I mean like say your losing and you have to plot some brilliant move that would require channeling patton himself... And you do your best and when the dice are rolled or the go button is hit you ignore the whole battle just to watch this one thing unfold?! GREAT JOB BF!

I think it is heartwarming... What is heartwarming you all may be asking... Correct me if I'm wrong but this game is almost a come from behind sleeper hit! I mean to be honest I think a long time ago in a video game magazine I saw a brief little blurb/review of this Game before it was much more than a wet dream of a demo. I remember so well because I had just started playing table top wargaming, and fell in love with the WWII versions. I may like sci fi stuff a little better but the WWII stuff was just so much more realistic. Anyway the review (obviously written by a bunch of ridilin boys) was less than perfect. These crowd pleasing blowhards actually gave Cm (or a similar game if it wasn't cm) a bad rep due to it's turn based engine. Saying something like "If you don't mind being cooped up for hours planning strategy and then watch it happen for only a minute, or if your a die hard wargamming enthusiast this game is for you." Ok so maybe this game isn't for everyone I'll give you that, and I do see what they mean about the amount of time spent playing one scenario. but could they stop kissing the asses of 12 year olds with sugar addictions. all you guys who made this game deserve a great big slap on the back for a job well done, a medal, and a shot at the us senate. I gave it a 100 and would have voted twice if cm had not been the highest rated game! As far as strategy games go, if I could play any game I mean ANY game with the best computer, I would play CM. Sure maybe it might not have some of the flash of a few games out there... but does it need it? Get down and close to your sherman while it's getting into a battle with some german monster of a tank and you tell me if you don't flinch when you hear that gut wrenching clank of a direct sherman killing hit. Or squirm as your faithful footsoldiers run for their objective under fire. So a scenario can take all evening... So does a good game of chess... And both require brains luck and skill to win and play well. It's nice to know there are at least a few hundred intelligent people out there who have good taste! "Only game I play as much as CM is The mod for half life, Counterstrike... I think my girlfriend is getting pissed now... heh she wants to play!" -Demangel

That damn Panther... It was like an angel of death watching over my advancing forces, as we bled our way up to the final objective... All of the german forces in the valley and village below had been routed or killed. And now it just came down to storming the fortress like hill overlooking the valley... I probably wound'nt have made it that far if one of my shermans hadn't got that lucky shot on the bunker up top... Most of my platoons where all shot to peices though and it fell on my tanks to put the muscle in the assualt on the germans last stand. good ole arty had paced himself nicely and i had about four minutes of constant shelling left to drive the pesky germans out of the forest around the bunker to take cover in the open. the mighty panther began disgorging hellfire that rained down on my poor shermans whenever they poked their heads out enough... two of them cuaght hull down when it first appeared. they are gone now the crew in the med tent to the rear... I have two left and one has lost it's main gun... I better do something either incredibly smart or stupid, either way we can't take much more of this. god knows we need to take this hill. or our push into germany may be held up long enough for good ole hitler to think of something new to throw at us. As the arty falls the tank begins to make a mad rush to the far right, and up the hill past the long defunct guns... I instruct my wounded sherman to wait in cover till the time is right and then instructed him to rush the panther, and if anyone made it out alive I would give them a medal... The panther keeping guard saw this as easy prey and it's barrel lowered into firing position. The Sherman (god bless it's crew, they did as I asked, knowing it was suicide) was struck a mortal first blow, and three crewman spilled out... running for their lives... but a split second later it's avenger arrived right behind the panther who was still reloading, i could just imagine the gins on the faces of the crew of the sherman at the big ugly back side of that damn panther. It began to turn to face it's front armor towards the sherman, it's turret already in place when the shell hit... the explosion must have deafened the firghtened infantry who where hiding and dying in the open while the remnants of the bunker and it's forest began to burn... Then My remaining platoons ran wearily up the high hill weapons chattering all the way. good ole arty, quiet now, had done it's job and all the german infantry was sitting ducks save for those few hiding under the panther, and those in the small woods across the road. by the last turn... my units had captured or killed all but 10 germans... My remaining forces where batterd though... so much so that without reinforcements we won't be able to hold this hill for long... I hope it was worth it. (GREAT GOD DAMN GAME!)

Thank you all so far for the answers they are great and Help me a lot... I usualy do send them inwith support but like I said maybe I just have no luck LOL... that and the Ai must be really good to always know I am coming for his tank and have all units in the area (well most anyway) single out the anti tank teams, or flame throwers... I will try more advanced ambushes then in the future... also what about panzerfaust and the grenades some units have on their rifles? Are they more likely to get off a shot than the specialized AT teams? at the cost of knock out punch abillity? I dunno, but be sure I will try what has been advised... I am glad I am not the only one who finds it is hard to knock out a tank without using armor of my own. -Demangel

Ok I am sorry about writing a few of what I think you guys call spoilers... I assume these to mean they are more like stories than topic for discussion. So I hope to make up for it with this topic. Ok I'm not a dope, but I am having trouble getting tank kills with anittank weapons. either the tank or some lucky shot from somewhere else takes out my anti tank team before they can do anything. I think I got one tank ever in Cm by using AT teams and that was an accident ai event. usualy something goes foobar from the getgo. Of course maybe it's because usualy I don't use my At teams defensively? Anyway by the time I really try to use them My tanks are chop liver, and I need to take out at least one other enemy tank to make the scenario winnable without huge losses. hell I posted something that is more like a spoiler about my troubles with AT teams. It's a sad tail of an AT team inexplicably running away from a tank it was sneaking up to, to engage a 12 man aliied squad in the building when they had no reason to do so... i was just about to pop the tank and the team changed their minds and ran. (and no they wheren't routed panicked or anything else in fact they where not only sneaking but had the rise of a hill in the way, not a single allied unit noticed them about 20 yrds from the tank. Anyway any strategic advice on how to take down a tank without a tank of your own, or ways to practice this would be great. I feel like a dolt, but most of the specialized weapons in the game (flamthrowers and AT teams) have been hard for me to use effectively. So any strats would rule... Thanks hope you can all help.

I dunno I found valley of terror to be pretty balanced in some ways... It all depends on what the axis does and does not do... That scenario is in my opinion hard from any direction, but nowhere near impossible. As allies I prefer to hang back a bit and try to get as many of my units and tanks forward without being knocked out... I even found a sick spot that tanks can fire from but the bunker on the highest hill (forget the number) cant get los too... I even got the tanks to hit the bunker (the major nasty tank killer one on the highest hill) from the other side of the map and kill it (lucky shot I think but what the hey) my first time I played it, i ran down my allied forces in such a way as to stay clear of what where likely mined areas and usualy just went around the barbed wire. Before the tenth round The allied left flank had taken out that pill box and was working on the one in the hill (with some tank support of course after the main bunker was down.) In that round the germans get a hint as to the best way for the allies to win the map though... ARTY! you know that big ole guy who never shows his face but you feel his fist? the mortar will either rip your forces apart, or shell shock them out of bunkers (thats how I took two of the four or five bunkers) they justhave to concentrate on it for a few minutes, then target something else (they have enough ammo to last a good portion of the scenario if used right). then use the big arty spotter to just distract the big bunker on the highest hill. In fact don't let up at all... It may not kill it, but it can, and it will shell shock a lot of the units inside... another vital thing is for the allies to make DAMN good use of the smoke attack. Layer that bill pill box on the hill with smoke when you make a move. I don't care if a tank is visible for only a few seconds make sure it has smoke on it... the tanks should avoid pushing too far forward till that big gun is down, then they can try to use that hill in the middle of the map to haras/destroy just about anything in the town or surrounding valley. Once the battle in the valley was over (and I must admit I suck as using flamethrowers, none of them even fired once... before they where toast. the hardest part of that map, with or without that big gun on top is just plain taking that hill you can't win the scenario if you haven't taken that big hill. I was worried the first time I played it cuz I was down to my last two tanks (one had taken a barrel hit and only had it's machine gun). The damn panther or whatever had shown up and oh boy did I have a fun time trying to take that out... i musta spent an hour before I figured out the approach that got it for me with the way it was that time. So if you wanna win as the germans, make sure that main hill is a death trap you have every advantage when defending it... When your reinforcements arrive (the panther I think it is) just sit it at the top of the hill and back a little tiny ways... so it can see the tanks on the middle hill, and usualy get a hull down shot on it (easy kill) or with a little coaxing it can see the tanks elsewhere and usualy get a hull down shot on em too. If they start pushing up that road... lay some ambushes, and for gods sake keep that panther alive at all costs.. Watch your rear, the only way I was able to kill the panther was to pop smokes all the way around the back of the hill with me fully functioning sherman, then I timed it perfectly (rare for me I suck at timing things since I'm so new to CM) so that the rear tank and the gunless tank both came into view of the panther at the same time, as luck would have it the panther shot at my half dead sherman knocking it out, but not a split second later my rear sherman which fought a desperate battle to get to the rear put a AP round right in it's backside... Without the smoke it would have been spotted... and either taken out by a Panzerfuast or Panzershreck before even coming close... even with the support I gave it. so like I said keep that main hill at all costs... you might even consider moving your mine feilds to the hill Both personell and antitank. But leave one or two personell ones between the two fenses in the valley (I think from the axis point of view the fenses I mean are to the left of the town? Where they are already set up anyway) to make the allied foottroops fall easy prey for a while down below... As for the arty ambush target or whatever that thing is (I didn't touch it when I played as Axis) you might wanna leave it be. that lowland area is gonna be a major source of allied footroop headace for you as it is... Just try to bleed the alied forces all the way to the hill while taking as few casualties as possible. If done right the hill should have a large number of forces alive and well hidden in the trees on both sides. lay your mines carefully on that road on the hill, making sure you down hit em yourself. but making sure allied forces unless they are psychic can't avoid them. Screw those visible mines... those usualy don't get one kill, so put em somplace that will slow down the enemy. Oh and I might have forgotten but those mines placements I told you about may or may not work I only played the axis side once, and forget if the scenario let me place them on the hill if not just try to get them where you know they'llbe stepped on or will at least be a nusance. something to hold back the allies and let your units open up on them. HOLD the hill and the allies only get a minor victory if they win at all... Nothing else matters but that hill... NOTHING! good luck... Hope my strat helps... but if not it's ok... Every time you play a scenario on Cm you can find different strategies will work differently all the time. It depends on the randomness factor, and the mind of your opponent... Lastly of all, try keeping most of your forces hiden or in ambush positions... keep the allies guessing, and unless they are trying to take the hill just try to sting em not run them over. Wait for the big bad panther to come to save yer ass... If it can hold off the approaching forces till the 35th turn and that hill still has a swastica on it, chances are you will either have won, or not lost much... (say allied 45% victory and you 49%, or vice versa) so good luck... -Demangel

This game has to be one of the best strategy games on the market, if not the best. the only thing that comes close otherwise is table top gaming and even that suffers since you can't resolve the orders phase in real time. I have noticed some wierd occurances in all the versions... (older all the way till the gold version) It seems that sometimes at the most crucial moment in a battle the Ai will do something really unheard of. Something that even with the element of randomness in the game is hard to explain... a few examples are as follows... In a pbem match I was reviewing on another web site, this guys artillery (I think it was the 88's on the riesberg map but don't quote me) opened fire giving away their positions even though the player clearly and correctly gave it the command to hide/ambush. this gave away the position doing NOTHING to the enemy tank and caused the allied player to retaliate on the 88 with a flanking movement of his squads a turn later) this made the other 88 only a hundred yards or so away nervouse and it opened up (correct choice I think) but when the unit came at it, instead of fixating on the two units advancing the player had targeted, it attacked the further away targets that where still stationary (foot soldiers not a tank or something even dangerous at that range) then it finaly tried to switch back to the foot soldiers that where almost kissing the germans firing the 88 but it was too late... Why did it switch like that? moral was still high, and the men operating it where still in ok condition! On a hotseat match with a friend on the chance encounter map (gold version) tonight. I played as axis, he having less experience with the game chose allies since I hadn't played axis on that map yet, giving him the advantage of my being somewhat unsure of that angle and it's best postiions, save for what I could glean from the times I played as allies against the ai.). It was a messy first 10 rounds... My stuggs that normaly pummle me when I play as allies against the ai who is axis, put up a dismal fight, leaving two shermans fully functional. In fact normaly when I play as allies I have to pray to god that I get at least one, one shot kill on the stugg, my friend got them all in one shot kills! At range, and an angle that was more ideal to me than him. My shots where pretty much effective only one shot skipped off the sherman+ all the others either damaged the tank on the first shot or killed it... and always got off the kill shot. This is a minor thing to me though since it is easily possible. and I have done it on occasion when I play as allies...the 3 stuggs can be killed easily if attacked just right...especialy with 5 shermans concentrating fire. By the 12th round I was winning man power wise (about 1-2 ratio). No thanks really to my arty which was falling everywhere but in the middle of the huge clump of men my friend placed all bunched up like a dolt out in the open with four rounds of constant shelling the clump had lost TWO guys... TWO!!!! all the divots and craters surrounded them making a full 500 X 600 meter expanse look like swiss cheese, and I had it on target not WIDe target! My oppenant had no idea I was playing as defensively as I was though, only one quarter of my men actually went out to engage them since I expected heavy resistance if I was offensive. anyway the wierdest most heart wrenching moment was when on my right flank (near the church) I had taken the hill that the allies usualy claim early... I knew that the hill would only be mine for short time if a sherman showed up so I carefull positioned panzershrek and units equiped with panzerfuast in key locations hidden. the tank rolled in doing it's usualy nasty bit of damage to foot troops... so I moved my first anti tank teams into position... the panzerfuast team was the first to get a shot off, the shot was taken at about 20 meters/yrds whatever... against the side armor of the sherman (regular not the plus which I knocked out early in the game)... the shot went wild and exploded behind the tank about tenmeters away... WTF was the guy drunk or something? then my first panzershrek team fell to a hail of sherman heavy machine gun rounds from a beleiveable range (gritted teath) whatever I figured it wouldn't have a chance... then I decided to pull a sneak attack on the sherman, which my oponent foolishly just left in it's position, not even rotating to face my main firce in the woods... I ordered my last panzerschrek team in the area to sneak up to it and fire nearly point blank at the side armor. He had NO supposrting units near it, so I figured a close range side shot would not only be easy to sneak into position for, but would wipe it out easily... Sure enough my trusty two man team slowly crept up to the oblivious tank... it was pounding away at the diversion I had started way off in the tree line... just when the team should have gotten los to it and opened up (there was a rise of a smallhill in the way) the team changed it's mind and ran toward the Allies in the house nearby... these allies where on the oposite side of the house (no los). And the panzerschrek team was in excellent condition and was only very tired from the previous turns of running and walking. As the team ran to the house it lost it's stealthy sneakyness (ie running not sneaking). In fact I never saw a unit in this game run so fast! It ran up to the house provoking the two units inside to open up and the tank to swivel it's turret at it... the baboons got right up to the wall before they where all gone... this pissed me off so much I had to surrender and do something else, I'm not a sore loser mind you I did have a girlfriend to call and this game had taken nearly 2 and 1/2 hours to play so far... we where only on the 25th round when I ended it... I just didn't want to spend another two hours fighting for every bit of land against two shermans half his orrignal troops and having only two antitank teams left and no armor ecept what was smoldering sadly on the hill. I would most likely have won the game, since when I showed him my unit placements he nearly **** himself for seeing I had still 3/4 of my total available army to throw at him that he never even saw, and he had lost easily half of his men and three tanks at the cost of only 1/4 of my men and my three stuggs... but it would have been a hard win, and my other antitank teams where way out of the way to make another run on the tank. Needless to say I lost the right flank. So why oh god why did the things I mentioned happen? Can't anyone tell me? Why did my arty just make noise, vandalize the feild, and make pretty lights around the whole damn close together clump of units. Why did my anittank teams act like they had been taking hits of acid? Even my friand asked me why in the world my last antitank team charged the house! which leads me to think even the greenest of dolts would know what is the better target. hmm a sherman that is a sitting duck at close range, or a nice house full of gi's... Ok so maybe if they where fired on they might fire back... if they had been routed or panicked they might have headed for the house thinking it was safe... but would they just act like there was a keg in the house and run at warp speed to stand in front of an encircling fireing squad? I think not... and I watched this happen ten times on replay and checked the status of the team each time... they where only fatigued from running, and the tank hadn't even spotted them yet. they had seen no combat till that moment, and had not even been shot at once. the overall moral of my forces was still above 80% (even though I myself was pissed at losing the three stuggs so quickly).. Oh well I suppose my friend put it best when he said: "Dan now you know why you'll always want me on yer side!" "Why mike, cuz you think you have some tallent?" Sarcasm dripping off my tonge as I stared at his poorly placed units all cowering in close together clumps in open ground... "NO silly, for the simple fact that i have dumb luck on my side..." I could see what he meant as I stared at the happy tank and the not so bright antitank team bleeding on the side of the small house... Anyway I have mentioned this in another forum on here... If anyone can give me a good reason why this happened. I'd love to hear it... I am not all knowing when it comes to WWII weaponry, but I know enough to get by just fine (Ie what should be able to beat what in what situation). I understand that the sneak command makes units fire on the first thing they see, but this was not really possible... the first thing the anitank team would have seen was the tanks side... not the people in the house on the oposite side... facing away from them. and even if by some act of god I miscalculted the los of the house and the anitank team would they really have run up to the house to close comabat the 2 12 man teams in it? I would think they would try and rocket the house from some range... not get up close and stupid... (by up close I mean within ten meters or less...) Ok thanks for reading this lengthy mispelled posting... Overall though this game is by far the best strategy game I have ever played... A few bugs or whatever are fine with me, all games have em, and for the most part the AI works just fine if not perfectly... but on occasion.. regardless of the randomness factor in the game it seems like if I was playing with dice, and the rules had a bad roll rule (roll a one and it counts as a n error). I would have to roll a one twenty times in one toss to get the whacky mishaps that happened to me... Well whatever thanks for the awesome game... I can;t wait till the cd comes to me... (drool) -Demangel

hitchikers: Do not fire, and will not abondon ship... They sit until you tell em to get off or the tank (transport) is hit by some kind of heavy fire... or knocked out... If they are under fire, pinned or out of contact with the hq they will take there sweet ass time to disembark.... and only at the speed of move (walking) Foxholes: Men should just go in it just like woods or houses if they move into the spot.. when trying to place a unit in a foxhole just walk/run/sneak/crawl/ them. Put the end of the line over the hole (or even large blast craters work too). It should on the help text tell you what kind of terrain it is... Whe it says foxhole or crater just click and they are ordered into the foxhole. Running isn't the best order nor is withdraw, in fact any kind of retreat should be decided based on the kind of situation... If you don't want them to take many casualties have them withdraw (really fast run) or crawl slow but makes them hard to hit. to have them fight anything that has popped up that may block the move backward, have them move or run... I rarely sneak my men back into cover unless they are intend to hide there and stay hideen for a while... (rare and doesnt often work) As for splitting units, I have only done it once or twice when I needed to outflank a messy machine gun nest and I only had two 12 man squads. It give the machine gun nest more than two targets and only made their individual firepower less powerful... The machine gun nest could only target one unit at a time, so I lost only one of the split teams, and the remaining three flanked it wiping it out. I think if I had just tried it without plitting I would have lost one of the 12 man squads and might have had to fight it for another turn than I had too. Other teams can't be plit I don't think, (machine guns bazookas/poanzerschrek) the other disadvantage is that the weapons are split up, it can be hard to tell which division has what unless you hit enter when they are selected. so if your going for a last ditch Panzerfaust strike on a tank and split your squad be sure to make sure you know which squad has what and act accordingly. Usualy if one has the faust that unit is the one that should not be used as the diversion... etc... you also asked a while back what the differance in movement was... You now know the meaning of the colors, but what does each type of movement mean? Run= They move fast attack only the mostthreatening target or what you ask them to target and do not attck much till they stop moving... They are also easily spotted. Walk= they move slower than at a run, saving you the unhappy task of trying to push a tired weary team forward in a firefight... they attack targets of oportunity as they move, and often stop when they spot the target. (this is like the all around kill move type... balenced between defense and offense) Sneak= the unit will be somewhat hidden (though less I think than if they stayed put and actually are giventhe hide comand) While sneaking they move EXTREMELY slow, and will attack the first thing they see regardless of what it is... even if it's not what you wanted them to attack. This is hardest of the move types to spot... Crawl= this action causes the enemy to pretty much ignore everything, and keep there heads down while they SLOWLY advance someplace... this is good when under shelling, or superior fire... It saves lives too. It is about as easy to spot as walking... hide= unit stays put and is not easily seen at all depending on terrain, and will not fire unless fired upon or a juicytarget appears OR someone near them opens up as well. Withdraw= Unit moves double time backward, doing it's best to just get the hell out of there... It is fast and is the alternative way of retreating when crawling is too slow, and normal running is death... Please not you can only withdraw backwards (the line should be white... if red you can't go there) Tanks armor movement= Fast move= it ignores all but the best or most threatening targets to get somewhere in a hurry... Move= similar to ground troops... hunt= it fires on anything that it can see... with EXTREME prejudice... but it moves a tad slower than regular move. Please note that tanks are hide to hide, and can be spotted easily even if they are hidden. (range to spot is less depending on interveining terain) also note that some units move slower than others, and some don't have certian moevemnt options at all... Any weapon that requires at least two men to use effectively (mortar, machine gun, bazzooka/panzerschrek) usualy have slower movement rates and some such as the machine gun can only use the move command not the run command. A few cannot be moved at all if suficient casualties are caused. Say for instance a heavy machine gun if only one guy remains fromthe team it must stay put... (it takes two to carry the weapon at all) the bazooka and panzerschrek require two men to operate it effectively but if one is knocked out the unit can still run, but it's rate of fire and comlience speed... (pause) sufferes greatly. (one man relaods and acts as guard/eyes for the shooter) Ok I hope this helps and if anyone thinks I got this wrong or it is incomplete... just correct/add to this posting. -Demangel

I may not be one of the people making the game, nor am I an expert... but from I know of playing the game and some real life knowledge, high ground does have an effect especialy on armor... And in a less obvious way units... for units the taking of a hill is hard because the units must hike up the hill, and They are much more easily spotted and fired upon than those on the high ground. Thats a simplified way to explain it when it comes to what I have seen in this game... When it comes to armor it can make a HUGE difference! Mainly in the Way a shell hits... etc... If you have a tank that is on it's way down a hill, and another tank fires on it, usualy you'll see on the help text that the tanks armor is hull down, Chance of kill=excellent or at least good. This is beacause armor peircing rounds work best against a flat surface that is facing the shooter (otherwise the shell will skip off the angeld armor otherwise known to some as the angle of deflection) If a tank is on the top of a hill and it's belly is peaking out due to it's angle and it is attacked from below the belly armor is so weak you can kiss the tank goodbye nine out of ten times... To be honest though I try to keep my tanks in one of two places when confronted with hilly terrain... Either at the top of the hill facing either slightly down (if on the highest hill) Or in the valleys.. Always try to keep the smallest profile visible to an enemy tank prefably front armor, straight on.. for the best average defense... I could be wrong but this is what works best for me. My troops stay in cover, and try to attack at close range at either equal alltitude, or on the high ground. I suppose it always depends on the situation, but as I said ingeneral high ground is worth using in every way... As for range and firepower I don't think the firepower is affected for any weapon regardless of whether your on high ground or not, but I beleive the range may be somewhat inproved, but from what I have seen all the progectile weapons in these demos have the ability to fire across the map if given a clear line of sight... This is pretty realisticly done in this game, for numerous reasons, firepower decreases at range for a few reasons, one from the loss of velocity, then from the accuracy of the people firing the weapon. At long range fewer shots will be on target, and the target has time to get out of the way... I hope this helps a bit, and I know I may have gotten some things wrong, but I think my theories and facts are correct enough for this discussion. Thank you- Demangel

I must say I just had a somwhat similar thing happen to me tonight... I was playing hotseat against a friend On the Chance encounter map (gold version) We used all standard setup elements, neither team having an advantage... I was axis: My stugs performed Pitifully against the five Shermans, I was happy to have given as good as I got, but The remaining two shermans where definately a headache. When I played this as Alies Against the ai the stuggs put up a better fight, than they did when I used them, In fact when I played the ai I usualy had to concentrate fire from multiple angles to knock one out... This time My stugs never took any hits before being knocked out I mean they took on hit, front armor at a decent defensive angle and poof knockewd out every time... The Alies where spotting my units hiden Deep in the woods from nearly 400 yrds away which also annoyed me... But the instance that really pissed me off was one of my panzershrecks... Although I had no armor and my arty was more like fireworks (pretty but harmless for some reason) I had sufficiently bled my openent to ouitnumber him nearly three to one... SInce I had no armor I had to try to use Panzerschrek and pnz-fuast, to try and kill his two remaining tanks... My right flank (near the church) took the ally hill, but soon a sherman came in and started chewing up my troops, I came up with a nice sneak attack on the sherman from the side first with a fuast... The dumb asses totaly missed, the divit on the ground was well nehind the tank... Then I was bleeding bad... I turned to my tired and weary veteran schreck team and sent them after the tank on a end run sneak attack on the tank on the side armor. My openant had no Idea I was just over the rise of the hill smiling knowing my schrek was about to sneak over and put a rocket in his shermans side... then just as it was about to hit the tank, it stood up changed faceing and ran into a house full of allies... I watched the movie ten times and checked the status of the unit each time, It was not scared or panicked or whatever, and though tired and just about to have it's prey in sight it changed it's mind and basicly ruined a perfect plan that would almost surely have wiped out his buttoned tank with it's turret facing away from me... I figure close range side armor with a flat angle would have more than done the job. But to dope ran the other way to try and attack the house... WHY!!!!! If the allies lost that tank I could rush in with my huge remaining forces and just ran over the alies all grouped up on the road near the starting position. I think the Ai is pretty damn good now myself, definately improved over the other betas, but I was so upset I had to surrender and stop playing... It seems every time I pay something wierd like this happens either to me or the enemy. always at a crucial moment in the battle... I hope that whatever this was if intentional on the part of the programmers is toned down... I understand the randomness of the game, but also in real life in that situation a bazooka or panzerschrek team that is not panicked or routed, would not pass up a jiucy side armor shot on enemy armor to run across an open expanse to look at the shingles of a house... only to be shot by everything on the map... Ok so enough bitching... It's still an awesome game, and I think I would have won the match but with that loss I would have won just barely and it would have been one of those wins nobody likes... My losses would have been staggering, and the win would cost me lot! I mean I had only used 1/4 my forces in doing the damage I had done, the rest was hidden over the hill out of sight figuring my oponent would be more brave instead of being as defensive as I was being. My arty did a lot in the opening rounds, but afterwards they missed all the units that where clumped together... Swiss cheese landscape with few casualties. Anyway if anyone knows why the incident with the schrek occured the way it did I'd love to hear it... I figure if it wasn't an AI bug, perhaps the schrek team saw the people inthe houses a second before he would have seen the top of the tank, and since I had them on "Sneak mode" they went after the first target they saw... But if I had not tried to sneak I would have been spotted early and smoked...