Quenaelin

I am just trying to explain that I don't like this game becouse men are tired too easily. I think it is unrealistic and under estimates capabilities of soldier, CMB0 is much realistic in this way. Now everybody in this forum are trying to explain to me how realistic this game is and so on so on. I just don't beleave this, becouse I have been running in the forrest in battle gear a lot in the army, we used to have running march competition when we were running in battle gear (without backpack, about 25 pounds total weight carried) about 5 km on the forrest road and squad which was winner was awarder whole weekend vacation. So couple of meters running in the forrest cannot exhaust normal soldier in same extent like in this game.

OK, maybe I just have to sell this game then and play something else, CMB0 looked so promising combat action simulator, now CMBB seem to go towards to just another dull war strategy game. My opinion is that CMBB is going to wrong direction, I would prefer more like simulator style approach than strategy game approach.

There could be movement selectors, which are selected before move command is given, so troops will just know how to react underfire. Some soldier would have commanded to stealthy move, and some squads are moving and stopping to contact, and some are just assaulting, and there could be selector for running as fast as you can and then stop to hold your breath and continue. But generally there would be one big movement command which could control every movement, that would be much more playable.

I would liked to see more AI to put in my troops in this Combat Mission 2, but no intellegence is added when it comes to tiredness and moving my troops, they are just stupid as hell. I like to have just one command which can be used for assaulting, advancing and running so that advancing my troops will go smoothly and more playable way than in this game.

I am cursing myself not to trying this demo out more carefully. I just checked that tank AI was better than before in one mission, in other mission there was russians advancing, I thought of well they get tired so easily becouse they are unfit soldiers, so I didn't tried this game well enough to notice this tiredness problem. [ November 14, 2002, 03:19 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

Sorry, I was wrong with this advance command, I didn't actually knew that dash can mean "syöksyä" as well as "pikapyrähdys". I am really serius about this tiring problem. This game isn't so realistic and fun to play anymore, now when troops are so damn easily getting tired and exthausted, when running, advancing and assaulting. This game is getting more and more like somekind of Sims in War game, where you have to micromanage everything your troops do. I would like to have straitgh forward command like CMB0 run command was, where you don't have to calculate how tired your troops get when they are dashing about 60-70 meter, and you can shoot as well. In CMB0 they were tired only after couple of hunders meters, I think that is more realistic what real soldier can do. I don't speak for other Finns, I just speak for myself and which are my impressions of this new game. [ November 14, 2002, 02:12 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

OK, I give up too, I have read the manual only partly, but this moving is part I have read. Moving to cover to cover doesn't make justify to that men get so exhausted when moving cover to cover in the forest. In open field I would undestand it, becouse there is no cover to run for, so you might get exhausted if you are searching for cover. And backpacks, where in the manual says that soldiers has full backpacks, sorry, but I haven't read that part yet? [ November 13, 2002, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

Thanks, glad to know that somebody really knows what those commands are meaning and those descriptions would clarify some things in this game if it really is how developers intended. If those tiredness calculations are really made with full backpacks on, there should be command to "Remove your backpacks and begin advance immediatly, by leaping and diving to cover to cover behind the logs and trees" that should help them not get tired so easily. I didn't knew that troops are actually moving with full backpacks all the time when they are advancing, there is very little info what troops are carrying in this game. Ok, but I don't still understand, they were not under fire and still got so tired, and I beleave when you are under fire there is so much adrenaline pumped in your veins that you could do anything to save your neck and kill the enemy who is shooting at you or then get panicked if sky is really filled with led, but sleeping time is not in the middle of the battle. When advancing like you described, others who are covering advance are actually being able to rest their feet, by not moving. [ November 13, 2002, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

So why this advancing command cannot be "dash advance" "syöksyen eteenpäin" then, it would be more clear to everybody to understand. [ November 13, 2002, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

What?. 50 pound backpack, so you are talking about full gear after all, I was beleaving that men in Combat Mission are just wearing battle gear and not full gear, battle gear should be just gun and few clips of ammunitions in battle belt, about 25 pounds total and definetly with no backpack when advancing in the combat. I can do lots of zigzaging in battle gear but not definetly in full gear and with backpack. I really understand this tiredness if all men are fitted with fullgear and backpack and such, but who to hell will be advancing in the forrest in the combat with fullgear, backpack and all the stuff with you, that would be clear maddness. [ November 13, 2002, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

Ok, if it looks like I am keep repeating this, that is becouse nobody seem to get my point. I really don't know did I really make mistake by issuing advance command in the forrest, becouse troops should be able to advance in the forrest. I have read every post, but everyone keeps repeating that I made mistake and advancing and running in the forrest should be wearing men of very quicly to the level of exthaustion. And I would like to rise some discussion about this matter, that is why I keep repeating too.

I just like to have game which could be somehow realistic, but I think CMBB is exaggerating soldiers tiredness a lot. "Well, I just lay down here and not fight." that seem to me mentality in this game, but in reality world when you are soldier and you have your duty to do, which is to kill or to get killed. So there is no time to rest in the middle of the combat, you can rest when advance is over. In this game there can be just half an hour advance (30 turns) in the forrest where at least 15 minutes have to be used for resting, I think that is very lazy fighting. When advancing, others are standing by, resting and covering and while others are running for advance, so others get rest while others are running, that is how it is planned to go, no sleeping hours here in the middle of battle, that kind of movement shouldn't be punished so much in this game. I can understand when machine gun or enemy fire begins, then they will slow up or get exhausted but not just by advancing in the forrest. [ November 13, 2002, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

It is very hard to judge who are capable of running under fire, but if you are not running in to cover you will be dead at least in those couple minutes while you are laying on the ground and enemy artillery gets fixed in your location and starts hammering in open field, that will be real massacre, like happened to my troops in Näätäoja mission. In CMB0 men were actually running for cover when routed or panicked in CMBB they are just crawling and laying and getting hammered and crawling more and getting hammered and so on... really pain to watch this massacre, and there was no machine gun fire suppressing them just few fox holes ahead in the forrest line. This was my first impression about this game after couple of battles, I don't understand why to change something which was already good in CMB0. Good compromise between this laying or running under fire, could be that some troops could be cabable for running to cover and some could be just laying, praying and waiting for their death. Though not Finnish troops, never, we just didn't have so much soldiers to waste What was so wrong in troops tiring level in CMB0, troops were capable of running short distances and then they were resting by walking, you don't have to stop to get some rest after some running, except if you are unfit. In CMBB soldiers are just laying on the ground exthausted or laying under fire and praying "no more war, we don't fight for our country anymore, peace and love to everybody!" maybe I am exaggerating littbit but anyway

It must be hard to calculate those troop tiredness values in realistically manner, becouse there are so much of those factors in real world which are making these calculation almost impossible to adapt in to computer game. I think gun parameters and trajectories are much easier to calculate than troops tiredness level and how they are acting under fire. I hope they come out with somekind of solution in this machine gun moving problem and troops not running for cover, I think CMB0 was more realistic in this matter. [ November 12, 2002, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

Speaking of weight, machine guns are also bulky to be moved in the pine forest. Finnish heavy machine gun used in WWII was usually Maxim (or finnish machine gun based in Maxim), here are characteristics of this gun. And this gun was carried with troops in deep snow also. Weight 55,1 lbs Mount 68,56 lbs Ammo about 16 lbs or more Total 140 lbs 64 kg One man had gun and one carried mount and others were carrying ammo, in the winter there was sled which was pulled to carry this gun. http://www.winterwar.com/Weapons/FinSmallArms/FinAutomatics.htm [ November 12, 2002, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

OK, don't start any flame wars becouse this post, I just tried to be constructive. Maybe I didn't know how to move troops in this game after all, it happened just like Jussi said, I was trying to advance and others got tired and machine guns were fine becouse they were just moving? But this is unbeleavable how slow other troops were advancing and machine guns just passed them by just moving? Running and advancing is really penalized in this game, am I right or not? [ November 12, 2002, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

OK thanks, I will try to move to contact first and then advance, I was trying to advance all the way. But still my veteran troops didn't advance in to one enemy fox hole even how hard I tried. How about those fast moving machine guns then and few squads were laying under fire almost in the middle of the road and didn't run for cover, is this realistic?

This is command "Don't lay under fire" already is implemented in real life and I beleave it was succesfully used in battle too. If you are just laying in open field a long time under fire you get mopped up very easily, more easily if you were running to cover and maybe half of your squad maybe saved.

Machine guns had same leader as other men. All machine guns were in the front line of troops when everybody else were exhausted? Machine guns seem to be recuperating faster and moving faster in the pine forest? I think this game is becoming too complicated to enjoy anymore, I don't like strategy games in first place but Combat Mission seem to be very promising. I just like to ask, how you can move your troops in this game without getting exhausted when moving in pine forest, I know I can move in pine forest couple of hundred meters with battle gear on without getting too exhausted, and even with relatively fast speed, like every other Finn in this forum who has been in army. Maybe I could understand this exhaustion if forest was very deep spruce forest, it could slow me down even more, but I still don't lay down exhausted as in this game. It seems like all men are packed with full gear in this game otherwise I cannot accept this level of tiredness. I think in CMBB moving is penalized too harshly. And sometimes troops are just laying under fire and don't run for cover like in CMB0. Suppressive fire is really suppressive in this game, too suppressive. I would like to make somekind of compromise between older game and this new game, and maybe allow troops move little bit more in forest and under fire even when they get killed. In Finnish army there is this command "don't lay under fire" "Ei saa jäädä tuleen makaamaan" why not implement it to this game too? [ November 12, 2002, 04:11 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

I just bought this game yesterday, after considering very long time. Becouse I allready have CMB0 and CMBB seem to be quite similar, but still when there are those new features and better graphics why not to buy it. I was playing this mission Näätäoja and I found that troops are tiring way too easily when advancing in pine forest. And this was very weird my machine guns were always in the front line of troops, they were recuperating faster and also running faster in the pine forest, though they were tiring faster, is that realistic, I think not. Machine guns should be recuperating in same level as all other men or little bit slower? I think troop tiring was more realistic in CMB0 than in CMBB. Troops don't have full gear on when battling in the forest, they just have their necessary battle gear, like gun and battle belt, where you have more ammunition and couple of grenades or one blasting charge for bunkers and tanks. Heavily armed troops are always left behind when advancing. I don't like this new tiring "feature" in this game.

Yes, I know this is only game, so compromises have to be made, anyway I will try realistically leveling those sounds. I have quite good sound system, so loudness is no problem to me, but it is true that nobody can play this game if sound levels were authentic, sound differences are too high to bear. But maybe fuzziness of war doesn't come out in this game so good in case of sounds, in war movies sound is always better, maybe they could include some echo effects or perhaps environmental audio, so these effects could make this game even more realistic.

You can use earphones, if your neighbours cannot take it. But I think those people who like authentic sounds, like me, should get it, becouse everything else in this game is trying to be authentic, so why not sound. I guess I have to edit those sounds myself then. But I have to mix down every sound except explosions. Do you know any sound editing tool which can change volumes to all sound wave files at once? I meant PC's mouse, which has usually three mouse buttons, I guess MAC users just have to use keys, for these options I suggested, why not to take full advance from PC's mouse and why just use one button, it makes no sense to me. Or there could be other choises for MAC users as well, command menu can be shown with double clicking viewpoint box and if you want to drag viewpoint box then just click and hold mouse button. [ September 12, 2002, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Quenaelin ]

I know this is demo, but I just hope they will be sampling and leveling these explosion sounds little bit better than in CMB0, sound is very important thing for creating immersive athmosphere. One other thing is crew loss, there is no info which kind of crew member is killed or injured, this should be added as well. It would be nice to know if it is driver who is injured so vehicle cannot be moving, or gunner is injured so that rate of fire is slower, now you just have to guess which crew member is injured.

Features which should be added to this game or next patch. Editing waypoints: 1. Waypoint box could be draggable immediatly when you left click on the box to activate it. Clicking right mouse button on the box could activate/show command menu, so you would be able to add commands without returning back to your unit when zooming in and out. I don't like to use those damn shortcut keys so often. Sound: 2. Sounds are still quite undynamic and I found out that you are using still same explosion samples as in CMB0, explosion sounds are weak and speech is loud this is quite unrealistic to me. Tune up those explosion sounds little bit and lower other sounds, you can calculate desibels if you like. Air pressure for explosion is much much bigger than yelling it should damp every other sound under it, explosion is about 140 db and yelling is about 80-90 db, machine gun fire is about 130 db. So every time when you increase 10 db loudness of those samples should be doubled. So explosion samples should be 64 times louder than yelling samples (somebody correct me, if I am wrong about this), but anyway explosion and machine gun fire should be very much louder than they are now.

I have Hercules 4500 Kyro II based graphics card and there is no noticable problems running CMB0 with Kyro II graphics card, just use right tweak values in windows register. 7.114 drivers are working fine too. Make this file named: CombatMission_kyro_fix.reg and edit it with Notepad REGEDIT4 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\PowerVR\KYRO\Game Settings\D3D\Combat Mission.exe] "DisableCopyBlt3D"="1" "UISettingType0"="0" "UIDummySSControl"="3" "EnableSceneSS"="0" "DisableXSS"="0" "DisableYSS"="0" "UIDummyZLSMode"="1" "ZStore"="1" "ZLoad"="1" And don't use transparent textures, use shift-O (or something maybe I don't remember it correctly) to disable trasparent houses.