M Hofbauer

Dorosh, just stop. Stop digging. All youre gonna get yourself regarding this issue will be yet another bloody nose just like with the kill rings. you wont find that vehicle with 36 links, and your theory about tracklinks and suspension just doesnt apply there. I want to see you add another four links to said vehicle and drive it. good luck. So just drop it to keep a minimum of self-respect. </font>

these names are historical / authentic because back in WW II those were typical german names. Such a name would be representative for a run-of-the-mill german soldier.

principiis obsta. (or Giuliano's "zero tolerance" for the latin-challenged) I do not have "intimate klnowledge of WW II track links", like I said, I am by default not interested in armor and not an armor expert. And I wouldnt have noticed if it were, say, 124 instead of 118 on any given vehicle. but since the tracks are so very characteristic for *this* very tank in question, it is a glaring error that anybody who knows the real thing will immediately notice, because it gives the tracks and hence the vehicle a very different look. It was that difference in look that immediately jumped at me, the tracks just didnt seem right, they were not the large clumsy plates so typical for that tank. They seemd rather, uh, small-flexible, they looked completely different. At prima facie I thought they might be too thin or somefink, they just didnt seem right. either way, I was not being an ass about it, I merely had to explain again because there are people who just didnt get it and in turn accused me of not knowing what vehicle the pic is about. otherwise I would have let the issue rest.

And yet, not only is your name included, but so are those of the developers and testers (ie Faller, Biermann, etc.) so you are clearly completely wrong about this and simply tilting at windmills. </font>

Dorosh, just stop. Stop digging. All youre gonna get yourself regarding this issue will be yet another bloody nose just like with the kill rings. you wont find that vehicle with 36 links, and your theory about tracklinks and suspension just doesnt apply there. I want to see you add another four links to said vehicle and drive it. good luck. So just drop it to keep a minimum of self-respect.

That vehicle existed (Renault F-17) and it was used in several battles. If you need books or links to show that you are mistaken please ask me. Cheers. </font>

Burn Him!! Burn Him! </font>

Sammy Davies Junior, au contraire. You are, as usual, totally clueless. So totally clueless it brings tears to my eyes. The problem is not the real-time nature of the game, but the kind of dimbulb folks that such a game tends to attract. You still havent realized that I have never been part of the turn-based vs. real-time fight. In fact, I am, have always been, in favor of real time, having come from the CC genre and enjoying the hell out of both CC and CM. I am content with ToW being turn-based or real time. I do however resent the type of rob1/CPT Stransky(to avoid anybody calling out any member still active or even present in this thread) - type people which a real-time startegy game unfortunately tends to attract, the extent of their knowledge and intellect, and their behavior, for which the term "RTS crowd" is a very euphematic and polite expression IMO. I will not get into details about the characteristics of said group beause an honest description of their intellectual capabilities would definitely break board rules. If you are able to read and use the SEARCH function I would kindly invite you to do so. You will, however, realize that my contributuions are - in contrast to the spittle-licking syccophant raa-raa support other people tend to give - rather light on the back-patting and more substantial in the constructive criticism / content-contributing part. Take my very first post to this sub-board, for example. I invite you to do similar. Just repeating a common chant of "This game will r0xx0r5 !11!!" has so far not really contributed to, much less improved any game so far. (psst- Cicero didnt speak 21st century English - your lack of Latinum is showing.)

...gives rise to some concern. First, it is unclear if real person names are used, or their nicks.</font>

Granted, the swastika was used in the most ubiquitous aerial recognition flags, but not the only one. Fliegererkennungszeichen were either red flag with the swastika inside a white circle, same design with a regular Balkenkreuz cross inside the circle, or simply yellow cloth. Too bad the self-declared (hollow laugh on) "grognards" (/hollow laugh off) in this thread wouldnt know even such basics. as to the swastika itself. It is illegal in Germany. § 86a I StGB. You use it, you commit a crime. The only exceptions being, to explain in plain words, use within art, political, educational, research or jouirnalistic context (§ 86a III 1. Alt. iVm § 86 III StGB). And no, use within toys or recreational entertainment such as in a game cannot be made to fit into either of these categories. Have swastikas in ToW and at the very least Moon would be in real trouble. The way I see it, it is already a bit problematic the way Strategic Command is being advertised on this site (look at the ad atop the discussion boards general overview site), but then I am not with the D.A. anymore so I personally couldnt care less. If one really wanted to piss onto BTS/BF.Com one could always pull a § 86a II StGB on them, it is often overlooked that not only the swastika is prohibited (tho obviously that is the most obvious one). The law makes sense however, since if such NS symbolism is used on everyday toys and games then it would start to become accepted, even unconsciously, as just another historical symbol, and the exeptional horrific nature associated with it would erode. Especially with the type of people and their intellect who usually vociferously demand that it be included.

Please - please - take all the time you want, to truly make it as best as you can. If it takes another year, so be it. I'm serious. Dont listen to the small but vociferous ADD crowd that just comes with announcing an RTS game. No, the contest is definitely not cool. First of all, this weeks riddle is impossible to solve - or very easy: the shown vehicle does not exist, did never exist. Although it is strongly suggestive to a certain well-known tank type, that tank in reality unless I am totally mistaken had 32 track links while the one in the quiz picture has 36. I am not kidding. Secondly, the whole idea doesnt seem like a good one to me. Both in CC and CM, historical names were chosen. For CMBO, IIRC, Fionn took upon himself the task or at least helped to find authentic names. In CC, too, someone had dedicated himself to finding authentic names for each nationality. Both games generally did rather well with that approach. Now, this approach... ...gives rise to some concern. First, it is unclear if real person names are used, or their nicks. In the latter case, let me emphasize I would really NOT like to have a soldier by the name of "Ima Winner" or "1SSLeibhasenschartenfurher", or "SS_KillaSnipah" or whatever the RTS kids come up with. But even in the former case, if real names are put into the game, I would at least suggest to not per se put them into the US name pool, but in the respective according name pool, I would not want to have a Russian or French name in the US forces, but much rather in the respective pool of USSR or French names. And this still leaves us with names such as Jim Kawashikabane or similar. Leaving all 21st century p.c. - sh*t aside, they just dont fit into WW II unless you have japanese forces. It'ld be not only odd but cynical to see asian / asianamerican names used by US forces in the game when one knows full well how these folks were in reality interned for their only crime of being of asian descent. All in all, a very bad idea, IMO. That is, a bad idea if you're going for a realistic WW II atmosphere for ToW; it's less of a problem for a pure RTS game just happening to use WW II toys / be set in WW II. yours sincerely, M.H.

yea, terrific ad, and there is little difference left between BTS/BF.C and any other company out there (esp. the old atomic which they hated so much back then) contrary to their initial credo. they have come a looong way. just like the customer base and its knowledge level around here. might as well go play sudden panzer elite strike command conquer or sumfink. they use the same kind of "terrific advertisement", and share the same "SS Ueber****head" kind of RTS crowd forum population.

I know, I know!!! Kettenhund would be a nickname for a HW MP, remember the ****heads in Die Brücke who killed the protagonist father figure? It is not a glorious name btw, rather self-defaming really with a very negative connotation to it. essentially, its almost like using the nick numbnuts or dumbass or hardhead or similar. and contrary to your opinion "Kettenhund" first and foremost *does* refer to a dog on a chain, usually at some farm, a miserable, tortured, abused creature, yet dumb, dangerous, insane and evil. thats why the common german soldiers applied that nickname to the hated wehrmacht MPs, because apparently they felt the latter had similar qualities/character. good day. edit: well, its better than all those SS names out there, gotta give you credit for that. btw Im out of this SS etc. s***hole for now. [ October 06, 2006, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ]

I dont disagree, old news about them AA guns, its just that I fail to see what this has to do with the matter at hand. :confused: the question was "I know the germans used kill rings, did any other nations do this as well?" your answer was/is "NO" while my answer was that you are wrong, IOW, yes, at least the finns used them. since "yes" is the right answer, you are on the wrong side of the issue. clear now? Furthermore, you were the one to put forward your (wrong) assertion that there is absolutely "NO" other nation using kill rings with no proof or even the slightest substantiation to your claim, which is the more unfortunate since you are wrong. I am under no "burden of proof" as you might perceive, because I already had put forward a substantiation to my claim, i.e., I pointed out the finns/finnish vehicles, plus other kind souls have already supplied pictures and links, circumstantial evidence to my substantiation, so that any "burden of proof" or at least burden of substantiation of your claim would now be with you. You, however, have only reacted with denial and ridicule to this. ... However, for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that this for the time will be my final contribution to this, uh, "generally degenerating place" to phrase it carefully, I will be bothered to do a cursory superficial google-check for you. Please see the following not as hard proof (you can / probably will argue about any of the following as being doctored, falsified, wrong, out of context etc - they are, after all, only taken from the internet, and I am only too aware of its fallacies, but I am not an armor grog, I was going by memory of an old b/w picture of finnish armor with kill rings, and dont have finnish armor books, plus I cant be bothered to dig out the few armor books I do have, so you'll have to live with it (maybe some of the toothpicking finns around here can help you if you are still interested to learn more)), but take them as further indications, substantiations and circumstantial evidence, in the hopes that it will make you (maybe even M. Dorosh) an ever so slightly more knowledgeable person first, take the links already provided by RMC captured finnish T-34 supposedly authentically restored and apparently on display at <A HREF=http://www.panssarimuseo.fi/>the finnish armor museum</A> and this StuG <IMG SRC=http://www.panssarimuseo.fi/Pictures/museo02.jpg> (I suggest youn take it up with the museum curator if they did such an outright misrepresentation of showing kill rings when finns never used them) and kartboy's linked finnish StuG-IIIs from the <A HREF=http://www.wwiivehicles.com/index.htm> World War II Vehicles and Advanced Squad Leader</A> site (apparently that site doesnt allow deeplinking so that, again, you will have to either direct-access those URLs in your browser, or view the pictuires from the respective site http://www.wwiivehicles.com/finland/photos.html, fourth and fifth picture down, but I am not sure since you were reluctant/unable to do so the first time, which is unfortunate really since the http://www.wwiivehicles.com/finland/foreign/stug_iii_02.jpg picture is the most compelling picture methinks - since you never heard about finnish armor kill rings I'll probably also have to point out to you that these flank hull logs are ever so typical for finnish StuGs) this <A HREF=http://www.flamesofwar.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=1096>article by Alun Gallie </A> elaborates on "Finnish Armour - Colours and Markings during the mid war period" under "Unofficial Markings ", that "The Finns did not make much use of unofficial markings on tanks during the midwar period. Occasionally a tank would bear a painted nickname or woman’s name on the turret or near the driver vision slot but these where normally quite small and unobtrusive. One notable exception was the T-26 of the 1st Battalion’s commander which proudly bore the nickname VIKU on the left hull side. Later the Sturmi assault guns carried official nicknames and in the later period of the war the use of kill rings on barrels was seen." the <A HREF=http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks>World of tanks</A> website under finnish armor has a bit about use of captured T-34s and in the describing text writes "Notice the picture far right. This photo shows the "kill" rings on the main gun." even tho that picure is either missing or he wrongly refers to the picture already supplied by RMC. it also shows this -concededly arguable- finnish StuG pic later on that same site it even shows kill rings on finnish AT guns, <IMG SRC=http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/finland/50mm.jpg> not sure if its a 5 cm or 7,5 cm PaK, but the camo is undoubtedly finnish, although this too is apparently a restored piece of equipment. guess the finns didnt have too many cameras around back in WW II. thats it for now folks. live freely and embrace knowledge and your mistake or cuddle back into denial. sincerely, M.Hofbauer

Once they detect the thread they will answer that this will be added in a patch. and thanks for pointing that out ! your input is very valuable for us !

I dont think its a 1 in 5000 chance that players will find it strange when a bomber pulk appears at CAS height and unloads its bombload in such close proximity to friendly troops that it would make even today's A-10 jockeys envious. well, maybe 1 in 5000 Heinis. [ October 06, 2006, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ]

btw, on a second look, judging from the general layout, shape and the fin assembly I am now fairly sure this is US ordnance, IOW these are definitely american bombs. probably either AN-M58A2 or AN-M59A1 SAP bombs. The fin assembly has me puzzled a bit. The lack of the usual AN-M101A2 or any other (M113A1, M116 or M114A1, M117) tail fuzes would indicate a nose fuze which would be more typical for an AN-M57A1 or AN-M64A1 GP bomb, yet the body shape seems more like a AN-M58A2 or AN-M59A1 SAP bomb.

where? I didnt see any. or do you think that pointing out the fact that a picture showing an air attack onto a town that would be better fitting to advertise IL-2 itself, to advertise for a ground combat game with tanks and infantry that is intentionally set outside villages because the troops cant even enter buildings, is maybe a bit misleading is an attack of the grogs?

sad. so sad. it is all very very depressing.

its awful. those are obviously allied bombs dropped in a chain by a US (maybe UK) multi-engine bomber. the only connection this has to ToW is that ToW has the fault of showing bombers in a direct CAS role at almost nap-of-earth altitude.

agreed shmavis. but we're not quite there yet. this is nothing. wait till the demo is out. mark my words.

I think his aim was not to make a lot of sense with that statement, but to make a funny remark. and funny it was.

and as such took part in Desert Storm even before he was born - quite a feat, if you ask me. nb: I dont know what Sabot has done to justify getting banned when ppl like arsenal with their sig line arent. if sabot was to be banned, ppl with such sig material should be banned hundred times over. [ October 04, 2006, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ]

you are not going to playy ToW ??

then the captured crew would have to do a Steven Segal and free themselves then SHOOT THE WHOLE FRICKIN LOAD OF CSI BIATCHES.... I would even watch that specific episode. Maybe even repeatedly.