PeterNZer
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Posts posted by PeterNZer
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we have a general forum but it's not read much i don't think
also people like to have some OT stuff get infused with CM stuff.. I don't think it's too much of a hassle
PeterNZ
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Buddy
Thanks for the clarification of your position, it was good to read what you were thinking
As you can probably see by now there are all sorts of issues with some of the generalizations you can read in history and popular history. It's good you thought to come and ask, (so many people don't ever think to question or discuss what they hear), what are your thoughts now?
LanzFELD
I called you stupid because you were being fairly self-contradictory and failed to justify your position. Perhaps I was exagerating a bit for effect
I have done a fair amount of reading of history and I say again that the Russians weren't as bad as you make out. In Guderian's recollections of the East Front alone he talks about how the Russians quickly developed their tactical and fighting abilities. ESPECIALLY after the Ukraine campaign. Furthermore I think you're confusing platoon-level issues with command-level issues.
The individual Russian soldier who has been well trained, equipped, motivated and led is pretty indistinguishable from any other nations soldier. If you want to make a case that for much of the war the Russian -army-, the command and leadership, failed to learn from its mistakes and take advantage of German mistakes then I and others will be more than happy to hear from you. I'd even say that early in the war you would be right, (since quality officers often weren't around or were in Gulags! And those at the front were freshly replaced peons of Stalin right?).
However, you are unclear as to whether you're talking soldiers or leaders.
Also I should note that noone here is arguing against the idea that armies could be inexperienced and innefective. This is simulated in CM with Green, Regular, Veteran etc clasifications. What folks object to is the whole-sale classification of a nation as exhibiting X or Y traits. What's your position here?
As for the Hitler comment, I think I'm fairly justified in saying that anyone who says that 'nation X exhibits these ingrained characteristics' has a philosophy similar to Hitlers. In fact, I didn't call you a Nazi, just that way of thinking and it's something we've seen throughout history, eg, the reasons for not letting black Americans' fight in WW2, etc etc. I added that comment in since it struck me as a slight irony to have this debate on a WW2 forum
So I guess, is it your opinion that in CM a certain country's soldiers should have certain modifiers? Or is it just that, excluding a debate on CM, that this was the case in WW2? Or are you asking for opinion/debate, which you have got.
PeterNZ
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." George W Bush -Saginaw, Mich.,
Sept. 29, 2000
[This message has been edited by PeterNZer (edited 11-23-2000).]
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John, that factor is represented by your playing, not by the way individual squads and units behave I would think.
Feel free to take a bocage scenario as brits and play badly, I'll take the Germans
Buddy
In response to your most recent "why is everyone picking on me" post, lets look at the progress of this discussion:
- Your first post asked for comments.
- next post asks where you heard this, (Reasonable request)
- You add in something about the game, which isn't particularly related to the previous post, but never mind.
- Next two posts bring up issues with the whole idea. This is what you were asking for????
- You then proceeded to state this:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I was only curious about this and didn't propose anything...but why not? I mean, if Axis forces were more order-only oriented and Allied forces were not, then why not give them an advantage that way? Not really a bonus - more of a penalty to Axis forces.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As we can see you moved from asking some opinion, (which you got) to stating some fact, (along with the contradiction implicit in the final sentence).
- Next post questions where you heard this, not even a flaming 'what a load of crap!', a mere request, and it seems the questioner had a pretty good idea where you heard it! Was he correct?
- You follow up by getting all defensive and using the old 'waaaa tha nasty man is being mean to me' dialectic approach.
- Next FIVE posts give you some sources, some info about historians, some clarification of points made and questions on your points. (this is what, in laymans terms, we call a 'debate').
- Rest of thread consumed by debating with Lanzfield over his statements. Essentially you are ignored from this point on until your most recent post.
which included
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Funny thing is, I've been slammed for NOT defending an opinion I wasn't really attached to in the first place - I just brought it up to bring it up. Get over it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yet as we have seen you did feel the need to bring up an opinion after your first post and got all huffy that people questioned it. why didn't you say then 'I could be talking out my bunghole, this is just what I have heard, please enlighten me'
You also say
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I could care less.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then why did you ask in the first place?!
You have to remember that this board has a lot of well educated people here who are used to debate and debate techniques. This kinda statement...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What I protested was this attitude of "Oh yeah, well you're a complete horse's ass...what rock did you dig YOUR information up from?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
...shows that you are clearly not used to this kind of debate. If you have some idea and want it checked, just say it! Say "I read on the back of a cornflakes packet that German soldiers were worse because they ate a lot of sausage, is this true?" and you will find many people willing to discuss the issue. Posting a question, then getting huffy people don't agree with the opinion up for discussion, then posting a more inflammatory opinion and getting even more upset it just a bit silly, don't you think?
PeterNZ
(ps. when are you damn Yanks going to choose a president so I can change my sig?
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." George W Bush -Saginaw, Mich.,
Sept. 29, 2000
[This message has been edited by PeterNZer (edited 11-22-2000).]
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>LANZFIELD:
I am not ignoring anything. I just have read many accounts of this behavior from Americans. I did'nt say it was never shown by Germans or Brits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry, stupid people must be punished.
Please don't try and dodge what you have previously stated. If you wish to admit you made an error in the way you put your case forward, do so, but when you said..
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You can find that many soldiers of all nations showed incredible resiliance and inititive in the face of gloom and doom at some time but I have just heard of it mentioned about American soldiers more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
.. implying that although all soldiers were 'good'.. American soldiers were 'better' you are coming out with your position quite clearly.
In fact, the US was as crap along with everyone else, after all, didn't Rommel say he could take over the world with an Army of New Zealanders?
National modifiers are a bunch of ass. It comes down to training, equipment, leadership, morale and so on.
Lets look at Russia, for much of that conflict the Russians were on the retreat. Their leaders had fled the front, often leaving entire divisions without leaders. Weapons were poor, training worse, no wonder they fled repeatedly and showed poor initative.
However, I would like to point out that on many occassions the Russians displayed excellent tactical thinking and troops prooved to be as brave as anyone else. For starters look at the battles around Elnya where the Russian army ground down the Germans in a long and bitter struggle. There's the battles around Moscow, and of course Stalingrad. Later on in the war the Russians took advantage of the German propensity for pincer/encircling attacks to sucker the Germans into the defeat after the German operation 'citadel' which involved fierce fighting on all sides.
As for the rest of the worlds forces, the idea of placing some kind of national modifiers on forces disgusts me for two reasons. One, there is there no real historical evidence of some kind of born-in trait other than the traits of training/morale/leadership etc etc etc, all ALREADY represented in the game, implementing such a fact smacks of 'poor science'. The other cause for my disgust is that it does a HUGE diservice to the many brave men and women who did their duty.
As for 'accounts' from soldiers, proper academic studies show that soldiers perceptions of the battles they fight in are often grossly distant from the truth, (check 'An intimate history of killing' for many detailed references), furthermore, that in combat men around the world tend to operate in a fairly similar way. How they are led, instructed, trained etc is really what makes the difference. You can't base judgement of an army on what soldiers say.
In the above mentioned book they talk about different training techniques tried by the allies, Paton's call to 'get the men to shoot', (inexperienced soldiers would often just not fire their rifles, even as the enemy advanced on them) and a myriad of other factors. This has NOTHING to do with where you are born, but comes down to those factors mentioned.
If you wish to simulate the ideas of better or worse units in CM, it's VERY easy to do so, simply buy/create veteran forces or veteran leaders with bonuses. Watch how veterans operate under fire and the casualties they can inflict, (Especially at close range) and you will see this 'better initiative' and so on first hand.
Buddy
Don't get uppity. You opened a topic and asked or discussion, you got it! If people are a bit firey it's simply because this has been discussed in detail before. Now you have read what people have to say, and evaluated it, do you think we have a point? Or are you not actually looking for a discussion at all? Yes, sometimes people disagree with you, sometimes people simply know more than you and sometimes these people are right. Choose to disagree if you wish, but don't chicken out
PeterNZ
ps. You know a thought just struck me, a certain guy, got elected in Germany in the early 30's, he had these kinda ideas about qualities in various countries, now what was his name again...
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." George W Bush -Saginaw, Mich.,
Sept. 29, 2000
[This message has been edited by PeterNZer (edited 11-22-2000).]
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You big noodle
make a rounded box and then make it fill white automatically and make a little triangle coming from one corner.
need I say "uuh duh!"
You could make a selection of such boxes and cut and past them as necesary.
PeterNZ
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Paint Shop Pro
get the latest version.. kinda huge, or an older version, much smaller
PeterNZ
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The madness continues.
Again, there's NO CLEAR EXAMPLES of horses used in combat!
Bollocks to a 'realist' version with horses!
Yes! Horses were used! Noone is denying that! Were they used in the 30 minutes CM represents? NO!
If they were used, it was in generally -exceptional- circumstances, BTS does NOT need to model every exceptional circumstance in ww2, or I want my damn cookery companies!
Yes, horses dragged stuff around, yes Bicycles transported troops, no horses did not drag guns around in battle, no people didn't ride through forests and across fields into battle.
Yes, just -before- and -after- the battle cycles, cooks, whores, looters, horses etc etc etc were invovled, but not in the 30min.
Furthermore, if they -were- used, exactly how interesting was the situation?
No, attacking artillery being moved is not that interesting, no attacking bicycle columns is not that interesting.
If cycles and horses were in CM you would see them innevitably being used in ahistorical ways, see the cycle troops cycle from cover to cover as they advance on the enemy, watch the guns being used on assault as they are dragged from position to position by well trained horses, (NO, not all horses were trained to be ignore gunfire, many horses were just conscripted).
There is no point at all in adding this stuff unless it adds to CM. Again, noone has bothered to counter the point that it will cost BTS money to even think of doing that, and who's going to pay for it? Will it generate extra sales? Will you pay for it? In the end, you'd say maybe one, maybe two scenarios where horses would be at all interesting, and for all that time and effort? You've got to be kidding!
As Tero points out, horses were not exactly useful anywhere near loud bangs and noises. If we model horses, it's time to model them taking off with the gun in tow and running off the map in full speed, destroying the gun and possibly themselves in the process. End result, noone would bother to buy them, again another reason why it would be totally pointless for a game of CM's scope to model horses.
For some reason, despite the fact that Tero admits horses are just about a waste of time in CM, he comes out in favour! Odd.
As for crack finnish cycle assault forces, I look forward to seeing them in CM2 I hope. I'll put my KV in the middle of a field and find out whether AP, HE or MG fire works best at turning them into red mist.
I'm all in favour of two versions of CM if someone will pay for it. They can include automatic allied air supperiority, racial modifiers, bicycles, automatic cheap arty for allies, horses, cookery companies and mobile whorehouses. Please pay BTS to make it.
PeterNZ
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I guess I really did intend to get a bur under your saddles. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well done, you succeeded. As for the poster a couple of messages up, you'll note people didn't really (well I didn't) flame the original guy since he asked a reasonable question, however someone who is looking for a fight will get one
As for TSS being somewhat of a Grog, he's Finnish so it doesn't count.
You could ask for the inclusion of toothpicks in CM and he'll come up with three different examples of Finns armed with toothpicks taking out Soviet platoons I think the horses thing has been covered. The effort for the return is just not worth it.
If it requires you to come up with specific scenarios to justify inclusion of horses then there's your case for not including them, once you've played 2 or 3 scenarios with these specials then you're not going to want to play more of them and BTS's time and money is wasted on an irrelevent detail. There's unlikely to be a great deal of utility in including horses, bicycles, cookery companies and so on.
It's just not that exciting to play 'ambush the horse-drawn artillery and cut them all down'. Nor is it anything but briefly amusing to mow down bicycle ridding troops as they go for a sunday ride along the roads.
Horses and cycles are more useful at an operational level where movement speeds and transport speeds really matter.
I've still not seen a convincing argument that horses did anything in battle other than die or run away, and therefore are just not worth modeling.
However, I am not adverse to people giving BTS money and paying for their inclusion. The line just has to be drawn somewhere otherwise they'll spend the next couple of years doing this things
PeterNZ
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Hey mate, how's auckland?
Well, there's always 3rd Reich, but it's kinda FRIGGIN HUGE.
Diplomacy for your more abstract thrills. But both of those are boardgames really.
There's the 'Operational Art of War' series for computer, or the Imperialism series which might take your fancy (check demos).
PeterNZ
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I view ASL as the ultimate test as to whether something is beyond the scope of CM or not<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not sure about the rest of us, but some of us view HISTORY as the test.
for goodness sake man, are you telling me soldiers rode around on the battlefield? "come on fritz, get Donner und Blitzen to drag that gun to those trees over there, never mind the yankie tanks". For goodness sake! Do some reading! I am quite frustrated with some people here who think that EVERYTHING smallish and armyish should be included in CM.
Well I'll join in. I think we should have the cookery companies in here too! I want to buy SS cookery companies! I bet they do a much better apfelstrudel than anyone else, they could be CRACK COOKERY COMPANIES! yeah! I mean, I read that Guderian had a commander scrounge up every last man (including cooks) to hold a line. Of course, I want to see them modeled with their white hats.
And cyclists, yeah! I mean, you could 'move fast' and charge down the allies on your bicycles. This happened all the time in ww2!
And horses of course! All the time they had Assault Supply Lines! Elite battalions of wooden carts and horses storming terrified allied lines! I'm sure i read about it in 'Action Man'. They were Sturmpferdewaffe, lethal when given pointy nose guards to spike allied soldiers. And of course, Panzerpferdejager, Horses with big spike mines on their bellies taught to go and hump Shermans.
Really.
People, if you want horses in CM, what are you going to do with them? realistically they'd be sitting about 1km away in a padock with some pimply lad looking after them. You telling me you want to assault them? They DIDN'T wander around battlefields moving guns under fire. Same argument for bicycles, infantry DID NOT storm the enemy picket ridding a bike, they dumped them some way away. Unless you think BTS should take some time out to model a bike rack and bikes in the middle of town.
In CM2 there MAY be some call for cavalry since they were used some, but even then not really.
Everything you ask BTS to do costs them MONEY, there has to be a bloody good reason for it. Please, some people really need to think. I'm an optomist, perhaps beating your heads against the wall will improve things, go try it.
PeterNZ
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." George W Bush -Saginaw, Mich.,
Sept. 29, 2000
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Who left the trashcan lid off?
Look who crawled in, smelly little Black Adder.
Mate, if you have a game that's your favourite, have the balls to come out and say it. Come on! You can do it! I'll show you an example of how.
"monopoly is the most realistic property simulator ever made".
There! Come on, your turn now.
Snide comments and witless jibes at the work BTS has done, (in comparison to your fantastic efforts at...?) gain you NO support here, or even on your holy grail game site I am sure.
If you want to play the 'who has the most realistic game' game, then please, respond like a gentleman to BTS's examples of why CM is accurate and other games less so. Ignoring them, or brushing them off makes you look as foolish as you are insipid.
Just to remind you, you asked if CM modeled certain elements, and you were told 'yes it did, and this is more than game X'. Then, instead of having even some basic HONOR and nodding and saying you didn't know it was the case, you replied:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>No, but all not implemetented derive from a (flawed?) 3D engine, which the not mentioned game doesn't contain...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is that the slither of a little snake trying to avoid being pinned to any of his previous statements? Or even admitting that maybe, just maybe, his perceptions are incorrect?
Is the world you live in flat? Or are you incapable of comprehending the world is 3d? Perhaps you are blind. Or could it be the laws of physics somehow bypass you and leave you in a temporal bubble of non-laws where plasmatic freespace leave you impervious to reality?
If I am higher than you, and I shoot at you with a gun, the balistics and penetration factors will be different than if I am lower than you, or on the same level. How is this flawed? Do i need to go on? For safety perhaps I better ram the point home.
If my Sherman is on the side of a hill, hull down, and rounds come over and strike the tank from a tank firing from below the Sherman you will see MANY richochets, simply because the angle the tank at increases the armor to be penetrated.. WOW, what a CONCEPT!
No other game can accurately simulate this without a 3d engine because flat games don't have bumps, they don't have hills. Or if they do the hull down and angle of attack (AOA) factors are an approximation and broad generalization as opposed to the real world physics of a piece of metal, moving at x speed, over y distance, striking at c incedence a sheet of metal of z thickness and AOA to the round.
I am not saying your pet game is bad, just that you are stupid. Hey, it's probably a great game, but it simply cannot simulate tank warfare as accurately. It can simulate many things as well, possibly even better, but not this feature as you may claim.
PeterNZ
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." George W Bush -Saginaw, Mich.,
Sept. 29, 2000
[This message has been edited by PeterNZer (edited 11-21-2000).]
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bah!
Well Randy Waltenburg was supposed to do stuff, but went away, then he came back and said he didn't know what to do, so I told the commander of the infantry to pass on the file, (Randy is a plat. com. ) and told randy to do stuff and no news since tehn! I've also been really busy so haven't chased them.
It's getting rather annoying, I'll mail everyone AGAIN tonight.
PeterNZ
Major Jacobs
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Thanks for the update Steve
Steve, been thinking it's hard to pull back out of foxholes. Would love to see trenches with.. support trench escape route back thingies. So you can move from your trench at the front of woods to the middle of woods safely and quickly, and then from their, wherever.
At them moment, a squad engaging the enemy really has to stay in the trench, there's no chance to pull back without getting a new one ripped. In buildings at least they only have to move 5 or 10m and they are not longer in LOS, so displacing is easier.
Every time I move stuff when on defence I always take a coupl of casualties.. maybe i'm waiting too late.. but support line trenchey things would be nice..
PeterNZ
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Yes it would be the crossing of the Volga. Reinforcements had to be ferried in from the east bank, at night often, and often under heavy fire from nearby Germans.
PeterNZ
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Shockwave would liquify the contents of said pillbox i would have thought..
PeterNZ
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Totally agree with Gerbiltoy. Airpower was used with wildly varrying effectiveness before and after battle but seldom during battle.
I've read AARs where coloured smoke was used to lead bombers in on a target near the siegfried line, and accounts from Guderian of very effective use of german dive bombers, (more as a psychological terror than anything), and also serveral occassions where they bombed their own forces or just failed to blow stuff up they were told to. Not once is air power being used in that 30 minutes of hell
Air forces were well aware of the dangers they faced in getting involved in firefights and didn't want to blow their own guys up, so generally avoided it unless they were operating out of a combat zone in rear or support areas where they were sure of their targets, (even then mistakes were made).
It's a fun idea to let smoke lead air support in on targets but not that realistic. For starters, I don't think tanks carried coloured smoke shells often/at all? Also, there's a lot of smoke on a battlefield..
PeterNZ
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Hear I am Kill me
Well, his request is being completed by the customer service section of the Heer as we speak. Please, place more tanks in LOS with my 75 bunker and it will make things much quicker.
O, there's ONE more game, but i forget.
PeterNZ
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In all these posts, only one mention of a game, and it was merely a challenge. So here's my exhaustive list you waste-of-spacers. Go home and spam your mother with your boring accounts of your dreary lives. If you're not playing games, shaddaup!
So anyway.
Geieir
Send me a file monkeyboy. You are going to slowly die. You complain about the slowness, but latter on you will wish i had killed you in one swift stroke rather than slowly twisting the knife..
Mark IV
See above, with added note: Show yourself man! Stand up and fight! No, shelling my woods isn't standing up and fighting. Thanks.
Chupacabra
Damn it, i send the file and no reply. Your hamsters hidding in their holes to scared to face my paras?! Come on, I still have piat rounds for you!
Gerbiltoy
Booom boooom booom
boom boom boom
BOOM BOOM, BOOM BOOM
boom boom boom!
Marlow
Boring. Hmm. It will get interesting soon.
herr oberst
Don't you dare last-turn rush my flag you bastard! Don't even think of it!!
JD Morse
Bah! I have lost! My armored hordes charged and were dashed as so many broken needles on the beach. Poor buggers. Lorak Rack up a kill for JD and death to me.. Nevermind, you are my sponsor, I had to let you win one
Meeks
Bastard flees the planet just as I am poised to crush him. I'v never been more poised in my life, It's like an entire continent balanced ready to topple into the sea.. I'm like Sweden on it's edge, the pointy edge at the bottom, I'm Sweden stood on end ready to fall SPLAT onto Europe! About the only good thing you could do with the damn country mind.
Croda
Just as he was poised to topple me, (kinda like sweden) and I have a Panther and a shopping trolly left to battle his armored hordes my brave hamstertruppen storm his armored column and slaughter all before them. I feel victory in the palm of my hand like overripe peaches. And I will imagine it is Croda's testicles as I squeeze them into a paste and perhaps make jam of them.
Chrisl
Hehe, mmm i feel his death haunting the battlefield. His bold charge up the middle of map owes more to the charge of the Light Brigade than it does to some kind of military boldness.. O well, my boys like to kill.
I think that it. Well there's one more, but it's a dull game.
PeterNZ
(correction, Croda posted just before me so wow, more games posted)
[This message has been edited by PeterNZer (edited 11-20-2000).]
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Lets not mince words here M Bates, you're wrong.
These MMOL games cost a TON to run.
First, Quake and so on. Hell, I could host a quake server over my DSL connection and it would cost me nothing. These kind of servers are run by enthusiasts for fun, (mind you, you will note there are services out there which charge for their primo servers, or make money off advertising).
However, a game like UO or EQ or AC (or even warbirds etc etc) requires people to maintain the website, people to maintain the servers (24 hours), people to answer customer queries, (a call center and helpdesk), people to help with technical queries, people to manage these people.
Also they require multiple TOP OF THE LINE servers at 000s of thousands to buy and set up. You can't pull this money out of your ass, this is an EXPENSIVE industry. Why do you see so few home-run MMPOGs? This of course, ignores Muds and so on which generally require a bit of spare run-time on a campus server or whatnot. Also note there are text muds which charge a monthly fee.
Frankly this whole debate over monthly/not monthly fee is DULL and TIRED. I got over it some 4 years ago. If people don't want to pay, they don't have to. At the moment you wouldn't catch me paying for any online game because none enthuse me enough. WW2online might, Shadowbane might as well.
If I DO get enthused I am sure to get value for money. So far this year I have bought three games (over 100 pounds worth of games) and have only really played ONE (cm!). If i only bought one game and then payed a monthly fee and played it all year I'd be better off. And since 99% of these games offer an open beta of SOME kind, you all get to try for FREE before you buy. Clever huh?
I think ww2 online will be worth a look. If they do infantry well it could be very cool. Set yourself up a squad of tank hunters and go kill 'em. If they restrict what a tank commander can see and give infantry the realistic means to take **** out it would be great. Especially since planes will have a hard time spotting guys in buildings =)
Again, verdict is out. I have a friend in the beta who i should look up and bug, but until we see it who knows.
and hey, it might just be worth that money! Give it a chance! If the makers are sensible what will matter is holding ground, and really ONLY the infantry can do this eh.
We'll see.
PeterNZ
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." George W Bush -Saginaw, Mich.,
Sept. 29, 2000
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Lewis
I could have rushed the flag in the last turn or three, but I have ... HONOR and felt it too be tooo gamey. Even for me. Nevermind, I'm happy with the draw I had against an opponent who knew the scenario vs. me who was playing it blind.
Anyway. Some topplment news tommorow.. some highlights. Croda is learning that although the AI bought my a huge pile of ****e to command, I can still blow up his tanks, hahahaha. Good old germs and their .. GRENADES .. yeah, stupid bastards won't use their fausts.
Some other stuff. Herr Oberst is dying, well, of course, he's got me big time but the big VL is definately MINE and he's not going to get it off me. If he tries to contest it in the last few turns i will call him a gamey little bastard.
JD MOrse is slowly killing my army tankers, poor bloody allies and their tin cans. *sigh*
O, you lot, I have made a scenario based on my topplement of JD Morse in the snow. It has trucks, roads, guns and stuff. You'll all love it. BTW, it sucks vs. AI, stupid AI unloads all the vehicles and walks through the snow, sheesh. So if anyone wants it, mail me and you can help me test it out. If you're lucky, i'll let you win against me in PBEM, like I am with JD Morse
PeterNZ
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." George W Bush -Saginaw, Mich.,
Sept. 29, 2000
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I think i would have gone and had a talk to the teacher and headmaster at the school..
I mean, the kid obviously has an interest in history now, and that should be encourage! Learning is good and if you can do it throughout your life you'll always be ahead of most of the crowd.
I'm sure his history books will have swastikas in them, WW2 DID happen, bad stuff HAPPENED. I don't know why people get so upset about it.
I guess people worry about the glorification of war, which is possible, but having a swastika on the plane won't change any of that, just a good education.
O well!
I'm getting me a panther
(and a sherman when they come back in stock).PeterNZ
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Yes that was from Amazon.com
must be distribution rules.
OOp, found the UK shop I can get it from wwww.koolcollectables.com
bla, it's about twice the price tho! Crappy distribution rules
PeterNZ
[This message has been edited by PeterNZer (edited 11-18-2000).]
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Damn!
I went to buy the Sherman and the Panther and they don't ship outside the US!
Damn London!
PeterNZ
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yeah. well good.
Come on, we just need more people to post stupid jokes or links to boring junk and we'll be as dull as the great morass of net users passing the same tired email jokes round and round and round, "10 reasons why smearing crap on toast and building roads out of it is better than banging women", or "20 excuses to get off work when your bowels explode".
O, why not throw a chain letter in here as well asking you to send $5 to a little boy in Romania who was born without an anus and with your donation can look forward to flying to the US where the latest developments in anus transplant technology can give him a new anus from a deceased donor, offering him a life of pleasurable crapping and constant anti-rejection drugs lest his new anus drop off..
Or notes saying if we all click on this link Bill Gates himself will materialise infront of you and blow you till you see stars before slipping a cool million down your pants for the knowledge that yes, you have email, and yes you are extremely gulible and stupid
And for the record, no noone finds your bland scores and results at all interesting. Post some amusing annecdotes of your, or the other persons incompetence and make us smile and chorlte. This isn't sports roundup.
sheesh.
Dull
PeterNZ
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." George W Bush -Saginaw, Mich.,
Sept. 29, 2000
Horse transport
in Combat Mission Archive #2 (2000)
Posted
Now there's nothing wrong with assault Reindeer on the battlefield! Happened all the time in Finland
.. had a very shiny nose
PeterNZ