aka_tom_w

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I figured maybe this needed its own thread.... Battlefront.com Administrator Member # 42 posted March 14, 2003 12:37 AM Folks, Charles confirmed this as an AI targeting problem. For some reason, like the hits in front of the vehicle, this problem has ALWAYS been in CM since way back when. But for whatever reason, the fix to the afore mentioned bug made it far more noticable. Charles has made a fix for this and we will start internal testing sometime early next week. With any luck this problem will be fixed without ill side effects. Steve [ March 14, 2003, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

Great News Thanks! -tom w

interesting :confused: -tom w

bump this is good news too bad it fell off page one -tom w

it is also possible to play "no holds barred" and you use whatever gamey tactics you want and I will use what ever gamey tactics I want. (most really good players, especially in CMBB, don't care what "gamey tactics" you try to pull on them, I would say) the "he used gamey tactics" thing sometimes comes up when one player is loosing (or lost) due to poor luck or poor tactics and prefers to point the finger at the "gamey tactics" of the opponent than accepting the loss gracefully and learning from it IMHO -tom w [ March 10, 2003, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

on that version control thing Back in the Tech support forum several people mentioned that the MAC verison of V1.02 still Says V1.01 on it EVEN after you update. But the game once its open in the GRAPIC on the front page says v1.02 but the get info and the game file (there are no .exe in Macland ) says v1.01! so... I am wondering if that ommission of oversight on the version number of the mac software has anything to do with why players can play (with no noticable problems) v1.01 vs. v1.02? Just curious just trying to help out -tom w

OK Then.... so thanks for all those Positive Waves there Mister Jester Man! They have offered the THIRD FREE patch and all you can say is: "That really sucks as there are a LOT still using incorrect models! " well there you have it I guess you can't please all the people all the time.... -tom w [ March 10, 2003, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

That would be a very bad idea. Any code change we make has the potential to cause a game to be screwed up if the other player isn't using the same version. Would you rather have a one time transition period for whatever game you happen to currently be playing, and have there be no problems. Or would you rather be a couple of turns into a game and find out that you are both seeing different results? That is entirely possible. For example... If we change the armor values of a tank, and that tank gets hit... different results could happen depending on which version is resovling the game. Or a blast effect could be altered and on one turn the round hitting would behave one way, on the next turn a different way. There are endless possibilities like this that requires both versions be the same in order to avoid. Charles was away this weekend so he could not look into this issue. But he was quite surprised to hear about it. This is something that WILL be fixed with 1.03 for sure. Steve </font>

OK thanks Steve Some of us having been posting to this thread because the way it "IS" is not the way it "Should be" (i.e. "there SHOULD be a notice that the other player also needs to upgrade") in v1.02. I don't think I am the only one to have noticed this and it is VERY easy for you folks to verify on your end, no save game file is needed, just fire up a TCP/IP or PBEM game between one player using v1.01 and the other player using v1.02 and you will see there is no notice that the other player needs to upgrade. Thanks -tom w [ March 09, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

I just launched CMBB using the 1.01 exe. I was able to play the 'TEST gun' scenario offerred by a player in the 'Unhittable' thread. There was no incompatibility problem though, the TEST scenario was created to show a bug in 1.02. This time, the German platoon quickly dispatched the Russian AT gun. I wonder if I revert to 1.01 for my ongoing PBEM what negative consequences I'd suffer. Other than tanks plowing HE into hills in front of them. </font>

I'm not sure I understand what the issue is. Of course people have to be using the same version. That is the way CMBO and CMBB thus far have been and need to continue being. It is not safe to have different versions playing against each other in CM or any other game for that matter. Steve </font>

Hi Steve Thanks for getting back to me The issue is that for now one player might think they prefer to play v1.02 in a PBEM orTCP/IP game but the other play might prefer some of the more "gamey" features of v1.01. So now you cannot be sure your opponent is using the SAME version you are. In CMBO when a patch was released it was immediately imcompatible with the previous version so that players all had to upgrade or they could not conitue their PBEM's. This was a GOOD thing and we are looking for it in CMBB. If you release v1.03 will it ONLY be compatible with other players playing CMBB that have up graded to v1.03? (it should be ONLY compatible with CMBB v1.03 for the purposes of PBEM and TCP/IP games the issue of fairness in tournements comes to mind ) thanks -tom w

thanks for the update is the version control issue something that you consider worthy of time and attention, I mean will players using the new v1.03 still be able to play vs. those using v1.01 or v1.02? As you might guess I think this is a fairly significant issue. Thanks for all the HARD work and posting to keep us up to date we are all sorry to distract you from the "The Next Big Thing". (OK at least I am sorry) -tom w

bump

is that a SURE fact we will get another patch and they are working on it? just curious? -tom w

I think the lack of version control is an issue where one player can play v1.02 vs someone else playing v1.01 :confused: That one issue in its self should warrent a new v.103 patch -tom w

Its an abstraction, but its becuase in reality your tank is completing a series of fast forward and backward movements in order to turn that would make it next to impossible to take aim and fire. Dan </font>

lets talk about a StuG vs as Sherm BOTH can be hull down.... But the only advantage that gives them (both) is that their lower hull is protected. Thats it. (OK the hull down StuG "should" be harder to hit than the Hull down Sherm granted, but both their upper hull aspects are exposed) Hull down is a generaliztion so that both the upper hull of the Stugg (where the gun is) and the Upper hull of the Sherm are exposed. Hulldown only covers the lower hull. -tom w

this is not new Hulldown Status is Binary: BLACK AND WHITE ... ON or OFF 1 or 0 ! Seriously if the tank is hull down, ONLY the lower hull is not exposed the rest is exposed. its is that simple. Hull down status only offers protection to the lower hull it was that way in CMBO and I don't think much has changed in CMBB. Can any other CMBO veterans help me out here? :confused: -tom w

I thought it was explained to us that "Hull Down" ONLY means the "Lower Hull" is behind the rise. Like you can be Hull Down behind a stone wall even if it is only a few feet high this means ONLY the lower hull is covered. I thought Hull Down meant the upper hull AND turret were exposed? no :confused: ? -tom w

Ace Pilot, you got it !!!! It's a 1.02 bug ! I rerun my test scenario (i've updated it a little bit so that the units are already set up correctly) with 1.01 and the building was leveled after 40-50 sec wit 90-90% hits, rerun it with 1.02, zero hits !! </font>

JonS! Good post clear and consistant as Kwazy Dog mentioned I would guess Charles (if he had the time and inclination) could have written something like that but knowing Charles it may have been even more concise. I would say the bottom line here is this is not a bug, it is the way the game was intended to work and it models historical reality as Badgerdog has mentioned. Sorry -tom w

interesting thread PLEASE tell me more with SPECFIC details thanks for all the VERY informative posts! -tom w

Hi Tar With the upmost respect I usually I agree with you on most issues as well I think it is still a matter of crew experience. I really like the fact the game makes the tank completely stop both the hull and turret rotation before firing. But that is just my opinion. I think this is ALOT better than the miraculous accuracy that you could get with the M18 and the Greyhound in CMBO while firing on the fast move. I agree it is possible that in reaction to all the complaints (and a few good rants by yours truly ) about shooting on the fast move in CMBO Steve and Charles may have (perhaps) over compensated with the "no firing while the turret is transversing rule". I like the way this aspect of the game behaves. But I would agree and concede, (and I have NOT tested this) perhaps ONLY veteran, crack and elite gunners "could" fire the shot while the turret is rotating but they should have an accuracy modifier applied to the calculation that would make the shot less accurate the same way the shot is less accurate when the tanks is moving. BUT I don't think there will be a 1.03 update to fix this issue (sadly). -tom w [ March 04, 2003, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]