Iron Chef Sakai Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Ok, i noticed in some screen shots that the germans are still in battleship grey. the germans used this battleship grey color during the french campaign. from 41-43/44 the german infantry uniform color was green. will this be modeled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Read the locked down post again, Iron Chef. Slate grey was the colour of trousers only, from 1939-1940. The Field Blouse was a green colour. In 1940, field grey (green) was officially made the colour of both blouse and trousers. At the same time, however, wool quality was dropping, and by 1943-44, the colour had changed dramatically, ranging from brown to grey to green. Grey seems to have been the most common colour as early as 1943. The gaiters seem the most disturbing; they were issued from 1940 on as leather was severely rationed, but the examples I've seen have tended more to an olive colour than the buff colour shown in CM - but I have not handled all that many examples and am open to correction. I just want to know if we will have seperate sleeve files - since so many units wore cuff titles (on one sleeve only) in the CMBB time frame - SS, GD, FJ, HG - it would make sense to do that. [ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted December 22, 2001 Author Share Posted December 22, 2001 Will this be modeld though? i'm so sick of seeing the germans dressed in full grey uniforms in every game and ever scenario within games. alot of fottage and pictures i've seen form the eastern front show germans green. Do you think BTS will model the changes thru the years? i think that would be a great idea myself and add some realistic variety to the games visuals. thanks for your reply, i have never realy been an expert on uniforms, just conveying some observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Hi Chief not long ago I downloaded a nice green uniform mod. I am not sure who made it but I still have the zip If you want it let me know than I will send it to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Kwazydog mentioned that the uniforms shown in all screenshots so far (excepting perhaps the Soviet) were the original CMBO textures, so we will have to wait on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Well, as a sort of expert in German uniforms (at least I have probably $1000 worth of such books at least!) I can say for sure that the gray appearence is totally correct from about 1943 through late 1945. At least with this pattern of uniform. Toward the end 1944 the Germans went with a different pattern, which not only had a more or less British cut to it but it also was sorta brownish. Very brownish in some cases. Quality control and materials were real problems by the end. Most of the uniform fibers were a mix between artificial (which didn't hold dye well) and recycled uniforms from dead/wounded. However, like everything else, German soldiers at the end of the war were had a little bit of everything. We are planning on different uniform patterns for different years, but we are not going to have time to do them all. We will hopefully be able to at least leave open hooks for Modders if at all possible. But remember... our primary goal is to have a realistic game and to release it before we all die of old age. That most likely means simulating each style of boot and tunic is not very high up on the list of priorities Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Well, as a sort of expert in German uniforms (at least I have probably $1000 worth of such books at least!) Steve<hr></blockquote> Books are never a substitute for handling original items, as you know. There aren't many good books in English - Brian Davis gets a lot of stuff wrong. Cyrus Lee's seem to be about the best, though Angolia's use all period photos. I've yet to see a single comprehensive source for everything that is knowable. Osprey released a new 5 volume set on the German Army which goes into detail - they reuse a lot of Brian Davis' photos, but they better interpret the info. I have tried to put up some previously untouched stuff (internet wise) at http://members.home.net/deutschesoldaten for anyone interested in the truly groggy stuff. I was happy with the German portrayal in CMBO - I was blown away that you actually put gaiters on the troops. Bear in mind the M1944 field uniform (the one you talk about being similar to Battle Dress) was experimental only, and issued in small numbers to Volksgrenadier and other reconstituted units. Guy Sajer, apparently, had one in 1943.... They are prevalent in late war GD uniforms for some reason, too - on staff officers!! Hard to figure that one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Nice link Dorosh. A few pics of original blouses, etc for the modders to look at and color match. As a side note, I never have figured out how to identify rank by looking at a German uniform. I looked at many of the pictures and explanations on the site...and they all look the same to me. Don't all these uniforms have the same double-bar collar insignia? I am confused. The only part I halfway understand are the chevrons worn on the left sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Runyan99: Nice link Dorosh. A few pics of original blouses, etc for the modders to look at and color match. As a side note, I never have figured out how to identify rank by looking at a German uniform. I looked at many of the pictures and explanations on the site...and they all look the same to me. Don't all these uniforms have the same double-bar collar insignia? I am confused. The only part I halfway understand are the chevrons worn on the left sleeve.<hr></blockquote> The collar patches were never intended to signify rank, so yes, they all look the same (there are minor differences between officers and enlisted men). Rank was signified by the shoulder straps - take a look at the table of ranks and you will see how this was done. In actual fact, the men who wore chevrons on the arm were not really NCOs in the same sense that a lance corporal or corporal was in the British, Canadian or American armies (who had PFCs instead of lance corporals). They were basically, in the German system, glorified privates with little command responsibilities compared to the corporal section commander of the Commonwealth armies. In the German Army, Unteroffizier, the most junior of "NCO" ranks, was a squad leader (though when casualties were heavy, lower ranks could and did assume that duty). The main way to differentiate specific ranks was the shoulder straps, not the collar patches. After the introduction of camouflage clothing, this was also done by the green and black rank bars worn on the sleeve - interesting to note here too that ranks below Unteroffizier were not considered important enough to merit recognition in this system, and they apparently wore no rank insignia at all on camouflage or winter clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puff the Magic Dragon Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Iron Chef Sakai: I'm so sick of seeing the germans dressed in full grey uniforms in every game and ever scenario within games.<hr></blockquote> You should look at the historic Wehrmacht camo set www.warfarehw.com (CM mod section) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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