C2 issues when HQ's KIA

[c3k]

I think it is maybe not broken, but there are currently some parts missing, especially when playing campaigns.

I also lost a platoon commander while playing C&F (honestly, who hasn't ) and the commander slot in the platoon HQ never got refilled, meaning that 3rd platoon was not in command for the rest of the campaign.

What should have happened, not necessarily during the battle, but between battles, is that the highest rank in the platoon should have been transferred from one of the other squads to take that slot. This obviously has knock-on effects on the squad as well, because now a squad leader has to be filled from within the squad. It's like a replacement cascade, which becomes larger depending on the level of the HQ slot that has to be refilled. But this is actually (from all accounts, history etc. I ever read) what happened in real life, if no outside replacements have been received.

Outside, fresh replacements are handled via the camapign script, which for C&F is in the range between 1% to 50% Refit for units. According to the manual, this "is the percentage chance an individual unit has of being completely replaced if lost". This is a quite strange wording in itself, as it implies something different from what I've experienced, i.e. that units receive partial replacements (4 men lost in the squad - 2 become replaced between battles).

For C&F, the values between the battles are always 25% at maximum, except for after the Crossroads scenario, when it is 50%. This could mean that a 3 men platoon HQ never gets replaced after the battles it fought in, because the replacement (refit) threshold for even one man would be 33% (1 out of 3), so 25% would only give you an replacement of roughly 0,75 of a man. Which means that the only time you would receive at least one man as a replacement would be if the refit value would be higher than 33%. Which it isn't, for most of the time (you can check this for yourself with the tool I wrote, the CMBN Scenario Organisor, see my sig below). Also, that would imply that it is easier to refit units with lots of men in them, as the percentage representing one man becomes lower for bigger squads - which yields the strange result that lower level units get replaced but HQs are left decimated. There seems to be no priority implemented.

At least this is my understanding of the current system, any corrections to it would be welcome, as most of it is either very poorly or not at all documented - quite strange for a 4 year old game engine.

The replacement cascade I described earlier I think is not implemented (and not designed) at all, probably because it was too involved to do. It would be realistic to do this, though. Maybe some other time / game.

This is my thought. Well said, Mad Mike.

I'd like to point out the difficulty of using anecdotes to chase issues. Upstream one of players stated that his HQ got a replacement. Then, he changed what he recalled and stated that it did NOT get replaced. Memory is fallible. Or, put another way, "pictures, or it didn't happen".

Savegames and screenshots are invaluable additions to discussions about issues.

Having said that, I'll run some tests and see if I can recreate leaderless platoons in campaigns. If so, I'll toss it into the frenzied waters of the Beta pool.

I'll update this thread with what I can find.

Ken

[Michael Emrys]

What should have happened, not necessarily during the battle, but between battles, is that the highest rank in the platoon should have been transferred from one of the other squads to take that slot....But this is actually (from all accounts, history etc. I ever read) what happened in real life, if no outside replacements have been received.

This may well have been how it was handled in the German army, but I don't believe it happened like this in the US army. There, the senior NCO in the platoon, who would have been part of the platoon HQ, would have taken over for the remainder of the battle in which the lieutenant became a casualty. Then a fresh officer would have been sent down from battalion or regiment to fill the slot, if one could be spared. Failing that, the senior NCO would continue to command. Only if he too became a casualty, would a squad sergeant step up to command, and then for the remainder of the battle. A platoon that had lost both its lieutenant and senior NCO would probably also be too shattered to fight effectively and if possible would be pulled out of the line.

I know things were different in the German army. For one thing, by this stage of the war they were apt to be more desperate and could not afford such niceties as pulling a platoon out of the line. For another, their NCOs were trained to prepare them to step into a role higher than would normally be assigned their rank. By this stage in the war, was it not common for one or two platoons of a company to normally be commanded by an NCO?

Michael

[Erwin]

For what it's worth there does appear to be a problem with C2 at least with this campaign and it's being looked into.

Blackcat: Re "making a fuss". It's just that without a decent manual one has no idea as to what is a feature or what is a bug. So, if mentioning that there are confusing/weird features in what is an otherwise superb game bothers you, then I do apologize for irritating you.