Courage and Fortitude 2 - School of Hard Knocks

[womble]

The Briefing says the Battalion mortars are ready to fire, and that I have 6 by 81mm tubes. There are 4 on-map, all dandy, but the 2 off-map tubes are listed as 'Empty' to my FOs. I've reached the point where the regimental 105s have announced 'ready', but those off-map mortars still don't have any ammo.

Is this intentional? A glitch in my scenario? Temporary?

[JonS]

You've probably already fired all their ammo. See p.49-50 of the manual.

[womble]

You've probably already fired all their ammo. See p.49-50 of the manual.

They've been that way since setup. I couldn't even use them for prep. barrage, and that's sortof what I was half expecting, that there'd be an ammo delivery at an early stage and they'd be available again. Perhaps the REMFs just fouled up and told us they were ready when in fact the ammo truck was bogged down one village back. Means I get one less effective smoke mission, which could be an issue.

[TheVulture]

Did you use up all their ammo in the previous mission? Depending on how resupply etc. is set between the two missions, if they are the same mortars they may well have run out of ammo and not been resupplied. I didn't start with any empty mortars off-board or on in that mission, so it isn't a fixed part of the design (to tbe best of my recollection).

[DavidFields]

Did you use up all their ammo in the previous mission? Depending on how resupply etc. is set between the two missions, if they are the same mortars they may well have run out of ammo and not been resupplied. I didn't start with any empty mortars off-board or on in that mission, so it isn't a fixed part of the design (to tbe best of my recollection).

Right. I used essentially every artillery round in School of Hard Knocks, so had some mortars empty in University of Hard Knocks.

By the way, in my opinion, it is good to be modest in one's ambitions on the School scenario--just trying to keep you from being very frustrated.

[womble]

Did you use up all their ammo in the previous mission? Depending on how resupply etc. is set between the two missions, if they are the same mortars they may well have run out of ammo and not been resupplied. I didn't start with any empty mortars off-board or on in that mission, so it isn't a fixed part of the design (to tbe best of my recollection).

Aha. Right, I get ya. Yes, it's probably hangover from the last mission. Darn. Forgot that ammo status can carry over, and shot off all my indirect assets in "Up Hill Down Dale" last few minutes in an effort to...

=== Spoilers ===

...kill more of the 'company' of which I'd seen elements of a whole platoon (maybe), just before they surrendered because I had, in fact, nailed most of the troops present. As far as I could tell from the 'view map' afterwards, there's 3 squads, 2 Schreck, 1 ATG, 1 HMG and FO and a platoon HQ, oh, and a couple of snipers. No wonder my flanking move was so easy...

=== End spoilers ===

But the next scenario is a couple of days later, and still no new 81mm rounds? 'Tis a bit of a surprise. Hey ho.

[DavidFields]

Wombie, if you win School the first time through, I would, and maybe others would, be interested in the Spoiler. I was happy with a Draw.

[womble]

Wombie, if you win School the first time through, I would, and maybe others would, be interested in the Spoiler. I was happy with a Draw.

Well, I've restarted it once already, after having one of my HMG platoons and a rifle platoon chopped to dogmeat by simultaneous, single-spotting-round mortar barrages... (the rifle platoon I'd infiltrated on the left in the darkness to see if they could get enfilading fire on any positions near the bridge was caught on the move trying to Fast away from the single spotting round and reduced to less than 1 man per team in about 20s... :-/ ) so 'first time through' is not going to happen.

[Offshoot]

Wombie, if you win School the first time through, I would, and maybe others would, be interested in the Spoiler. I was happy with a Draw.

===Major spoilers===

My first, blind run through (elite difficulty) I got a minor victory - I was too cautious and left my run to the territory objectives too late. I wasn't happy with my performance, especially with my use of the artillery, and I wanted to try some things out, so I did it again, winning with a major victory.

Both times I started with a fairly sustained, planned 81mm mortar barrage of the small woods on the right. Even if wasting ammo, it seemed like an ideal spot for an ambush and I felt it was important to clear that flank (it's also a smallish, contained area ripe for an area barrage).

To start out I sent a two-man scouting party up to the bridge. Once they were in position and had spotted the barbed wire, I sent a team of engineers to blow the wire and the secondary FO to try and help spot enemy positions (the main FO I kept in the building, where they never came under fire). I set the 81mm mortars up right at the back to the far right. The 60mm mortars with their accompanying machine guns were placed in the field with long grass to the right where they have reasonable oversight of the right side for direct fire as well as suppression if there is anything left in the small woods. I also set up a couple of machine guns on the stoney mound in the ploughed field to the left. Remember to set close in cover arcs so they don't reveal themselves too early.

The tanks appear when it is still quite dark, so I lined them up in the open field to the right and moved them forward slowly until the were parked up under the trees for cover. Perhaps I just got lucky, but this popped the remaining two AT guns, both of which were knocked out for the cost of one tank (the same tank took fire from both AT guns). The 60mm mortars were able to provide direct fire suppression of these as well.

The main difference in how I played both games was in the use of the 105s. First I used them for smoke cover and firing on the forward defences, but I think it is best to use them to neutralise the troops on the hill. As the hill is the best position for oversight for the Germans, with bunkers and tree cover, it is logical that this is where FOs will most likely be. So the second time I forgot about smoke and used both 105 batteries to lay down linear barrages across the width of the hill - doing this I noticed a drop in the amount of shelling my side took (it also felt really good to give some back). Given this, I am wondering if a light-maximum barrage (if only with just one battery) would be best to keep them suppressed for longer.

Once the 105s started to fall I began moving the infantry forward in well-spaced teams eventually followed by the tanks for close support. The 81mm and 60mm mortars were kept for clearing the troops in foxholes and the reinforcing machine gun company was put in the same field as the 60mm mortars where they could suppress the entire right side. By the end they took some shelling but nothing too devastating after evacuating them after seeing the spotting rounds.

In the end I lost around 60 men I think, and stupidly one more tank to a shreck because I started to lose focus. I'm sure it could be done better, but I hope this might help.

[DavidFields]

===Major spoilers===

My first, blind run through (elite difficulty) I got a minor victory - I was too cautious and left my run to the territory objectives too late. I wasn't happy with my performance, especially with my use of the artillery, and I wanted to try some things out, so I did it again, winning with a major victory.

Both times I started with a fairly sustained, planned 81mm mortar barrage of the small woods on the right. Even if wasting ammo, it seemed like an ideal spot for an ambush and I felt it was important to clear that flank (it's also a smallish, contained area ripe for an area barrage).

To start out I sent a two-man scouting party up to the bridge. Once they were in position and had spotted the barbed wire, I sent a team of engineers to blow the wire and the secondary FO to try and help spot enemy positions (the main FO I kept in the building, where they never came under fire). I set the 81mm mortars up right at the back to the far right. The 60mm mortars with their accompanying machine guns were placed in the field with long grass to the right where they have reasonable oversight of the right side for direct fire as well as suppression if there is anything left in the small woods. I also set up a couple of machine guns on the stoney mound in the ploughed field to the left. Remember to set close in cover arcs so they don't reveal themselves too early.

The tanks appear when it is still quite dark, so I lined them up in the open field to the right and moved them forward slowly until the were parked up under the trees for cover. Perhaps I just got lucky, but this popped the remaining two AT guns, both of which were knocked out for the cost of one tank (the same tank took fire from both AT guns). The 60mm mortars were able to provide direct fire suppression of these as well.

The main difference in how I played both games was in the use of the 105s. First I used them for smoke cover and firing on the forward defences, but I think it is best to use them to neutralise the troops on the hill. As the hill is the best position for oversight for the Germans, with bunkers and tree cover, it is logical that this is where FOs will most likely be. So the second time I forgot about smoke and used both 105 batteries to lay down linear barrages across the width of the hill - doing this I noticed a drop in the amount of shelling my side took (it also felt really good to give some back). Given this, I am wondering if a light-maximum barrage (if only with just one battery) would be best to keep them suppressed for longer.

Once the 105s started to fall I began moving the infantry forward in well-spaced teams eventually followed by the tanks for close support. The 81mm and 60mm mortars were kept for clearing the troops in foxholes and the reinforcing machine gun company was put in the same field as the 60mm mortars where they could suppress the entire right side. By the end they took some shelling but nothing too devastating after evacuating them after seeing the spotting rounds.

In the end I lost around 60 men I think, and stupidly one more tank to a shreck because I started to lose focus. I'm sure it could be done better, but I hope this might help.

Spoiler******************************************************

Very impressive.

In part, and I think this is not unreasonable, there is luck involved. Getting the two AT guns at a reasonable price, for example. (I lost 2 tanks)

Of course, it is nice to know that there are only two AT guns. Let's say there were 3, or 5--moving the tanks forward would be a disaster. Hence, after I lost 2 , I retreated the others--thus my infantry would have not close support.

And getting the German FO is wonderful.

My, sort of, point is that with FOW one has trouble knowing what the artillery has killed. Pushing ahead without knowing that could be a disaster. Given that, I am going to contend that a draw is reasonable conclusion.

But, going through University of Hard Knocks, and now on Bumper Cars scenario, the question is whether I can complete the campaign with my relatively decimated infantry.

My guess, without having played CMSF, is that the casualties in CMBN, necessary, would give a current NATO Blue commander angina.

[Offshoot]

===Spoilers===

Of course, it is nice to know that there are only two AT guns

Actually, there are three, but the one in the small woods had been knocked out by my preliminary barrage I think - at least I never heard from it.

My, sort of, point is that with FOW one has trouble knowing what the artillery has killed.

On a first run through you couldn't tell, but in my second go I noticed a significant drop in enemy artillery fire, so their ability to call it in must have been significantly degraded (as it turned out in the end they had one very resilient member of an HQ still hanging on, who I assume had been doing the spotting - the rest of the German troops on the hill were utterly shattered). This is why I was thinking of a light-maximum barrage on the hill - you may not kill the FO and HQs or know that you have, but you make it significantly harder over a longer period of time for them to do spotting through suppression .

With hindsight I should have been able to use foresight to think of all this, but lessons learned

[womble]

So, finally finished this little beyooty.

The first five platoons across the river are pretty beat up, probably 50% casualties, at a guess. The Jerries got a partial objective on I Coy, but I made my casualty objective and forced a surrender with 30 mins to go.

I snuck 2 platoons across the river under cover of darkness, but the right hand one I got cocky and started slowing down to shoot back too soon, and they got butchered in a brief mortar strike. The right hand platoon never stopped and managed to get itself decent separations in the swamp and even keep ahead of the barrages, but it was getting badly attrited by (probably) MG fire.

I also snuck my FOs forward to near the river, and used up my 81mm and initial 60mms on "Heavy Medium" hits to any '?' I got enough eyes on to see the foxholes.

When the tanks showed up, they poked themselves a little forward, and added their MGs to the mix. I only used their HE to knock down the walls in front of the foxholes so the MGs and short mortar bursts could get at 'em. Good thing too, as I had a grand total of 12 left when they cried 'uncle' and I could easily have wasted a lot of 75mm on overshoots at foxholes.

Stage 3 started when the Pak40s showed themselves. The lead Sherman survived several frontal hits, but somehow while backing away in a tizzy, showed enough engine deck for a killing shot from the right hand one, while the other tanks' HE dealt with the left hand one. The right hand one followed suit shortly after for no further tank losses.

With the forward foxholes largely suppressed by M Coy's MG platoons, it seemed like it might be possible to bound through the swamp with Tanky overwatch, with the third Plt of I Coy, but I misjudged the artillery cycle and they got largely butchered too. Tanks dealt with the PaK38 in the woods during this debacle, and started getting themselves across the bridge.

By the time the 105mm came online, I'd identified new targets for them to service - MG nests that needed dealing with before turning attention to the main entrenchments. This was probably an error. The Tank HE could have been used on the single point targets, and all the 105mm used to kill off the hill, obviating the need for the Tanks to have any HE left at the end. I hadn't realised quite how effective that system was going to be, in volume.

What allowed me to start making progress was smoke. The advance of KCoy and the pioneers was covered with a blanket of smoke from the start of the bridge to the second line of wire. By the time the mortar smoke had expired, all the tanks' mortars were empty and there were about 3 WP shells left, which helped out until the 105s started landing and the Germans on the hill had other things to think about.

Then it was just a matter of whacking moles as they poked their head out the holes after the barrage ended. Hopefully the casualties I took won't gimp me later in the campaign.

[Mad Mike]

Just finished "School of Hard Knocks" today in Elite with a Total Victory on the first playthrough.

It was by far the most gripping, "entertaining" battle i've had in CMBN so far.

So a big thank you to the designer, well done !

*** SPOILERS ***

Keys to success:

- Kill the AT guns as soon as spotted (81mm mortars or 105 mm arty will do nicely)

- try to keep your tanks alive (and mobile) as long as you can .. at the end all 5 of the shermans were immobilised, but otherwise still ok .. a little bit of luck is involved because of the heaviliy mined bridge are

- try to use smoke for crossing the bridge with infantry (3 to 4 platoons should be enough if you still have tanks) .. you will lose some men to the enemies artillery .. all HQ units can spot and there are 3 or 4 TRPs along the only route of advance

Most importantly: Keep pushing .. don't be disheartened when loosing half a platoon due to a well placed artillery strike .. it's guaranteed to happen in this scenario :cool:

I don't know if there is a dedicated FO for the germans (couldn't find one after the battle was finished .. can anybody confirm?) .. but i guess they will also use HQs for artillery spotting .. very impressive (and deadly) work of the AI!

[womble]

I don't know if there is a dedicated FO for the germans (couldn't find one after the battle was finished .. can anybody confirm?) .. but i guess they will also use HQs for artillery spotting .. very impressive (and deadly) work of the AI!

I'm pretty sure there was one left on the ridge when I "View Map"ed. With TRPs (don't know how many they have, but I think just around the bridge area - I played hokey cokey with spotting rounds up the road and in the marsh and didn't take any incoming missions in smoke-obscured areas) they don't need even to have an HQ with LOS. Tricksy.

[Mad Mike]

I'm pretty sure there was one left on the ridge when I "View Map"ed. With TRPs (don't know how many they have, but I think just around the bridge area - I played hokey cokey with spotting rounds up the road and in the marsh and didn't take any incoming missions in smoke-obscured areas) they don't need even to have an HQ with LOS. Tricksy.

Yeah, i didn't use that much smoke ( I should have used it more often to conceal my final approach). And the german arty kept coming almost right up to the end of the mission (around 4 minutes left on the clock). That's why I'm almost sure that also HQs must have done some of the spotting .. because on the hill nothing was left alive (after maybe 200 to 300 shells of various calibers).