C2 Morale Issue

[stoex]

As mentioned by Polo in this thread, there is an issue with information about unit casualties being passed along the C2 chain to other units of the same formation. While I am not opposed to this feature and think it is realistic in principle, the way it is handled at the moment seems a bit generic and not too well thought out to me.

Aside from the problems with reinforcements mentioned by Polo, I have come across this problem when, for instance, I have a battery of Flak88's in the battle 'A Delaying Action'. If I spread them across the map (basically their default setup anyway), two of them are out of C2 from their battery HQ. Not only are they out of C2, they are completely out of view of their HQ, about 500m away behind some buildings and a raised railroad track. Now, as soon as one of these two guns gets destroyed by the attacking US troops, ALL other units associated with the battery HQ (whether in C2 or not), IMMEDIATELY go from 'OK' status to 'shaken', 'rattled' or even 'panicked'. Yes, panicked. And this although they are not under fire themselves, have no enemy contacts in fact, and also no way of knowing what happened to their comrades (at least not that quickly). At the same time, units from other formations directly witnessing the demise of the Flak88 (torn to shreds by howitzers) from 100m away remain completely calm (status 'OK').

I don't think the other units from the battery should be losing combat effectiveness under the described circumstances, but the infantrymen watching the scene should. Thoughts?

[gunnergoz]

It's worth looking into given the circumstances you describe. Seems to me at least.

[WineCape]

I will look at this issue thoroughly and then bump it to the relevant Beta forum regarding different units within same organic formation, out of C2 with one another, being all hit with a morale penalty immediately if one unit gets the chop. This does not seem ideal/realistic. Need to devise a premise and test scenario, the results will then be clearer for BFC to take action, if possible.

[WineCape]

-- Deleted Double post, apologies. --

[stoex]

Thanks Winecape,

You can use the Germans with their default setup in A Delaying Action, as stated above, since it perfectly reflects the necessary parameters. PLUS the two mentioned Flak88's will get the chop early on for sure .

Or feel free to use a simpler setup if you like, anything like a firing range should work fine.

[WineCape]

Or feel free to use a simpler setup if you like, anything like a firing range should work fine.

I have test scenarios galore - seems I have almost more in my test folder then battle maps on the HDD. Speak later and will keep you updated.

[Polo]

Thanks for noticing my post.

Actually, in retrospect, I think it may be a bug. The effect on morale is far too exagerated.

Polo

[stoex]

Polo,

It's hard to notice ALL posts at the moment since the forum is so active, but I try to notice the ones I think are important .

Just to clarify my point a little more closely, as my original post seems a little - well, harsh - when reading it again (as posts sometimes are when something really bothers you right then ):

1) I am all for troops taking a morale hit when Bad Things happen close to them, i. e. they fear for their own well-being, or when BAD Things happen to their direct comrades (as soon as they know about it).

2) The main issue in this case is that the effects of C2 communication seem to be neglected amongst units of the same formation, meaning they are suffering the morale it instantly even when out of C2 with no way of knowing what happened.

3) The secondary issue (which may be a lot more difficult to get a handle on) is that I think serious morale hits (e.g. going from OK to panicked) should be reserved for units who are in immediate fear of Bad Things happening to them, or at least are directly witnessing Bad Things happening to other units close to them (meaning abstractedly they see body parts flying around or dozens of men in the next trench get massacred with bayonets etc.). However, being informed over the radio that the other half of your battery/platoon across the map got wasted should not cause crack units to panic (as was the case in my example). It should make them nervous or cautious, maybe, but not panicked.

[WineCape]

Test Scenario bumped to BFC: When a FlaK 88 were taken out as well as it's Ammo Bearer Team servicing said gun, the latter went "Rattled" (regular troops). The 2 Flak guns still remaining unscathed did not suffer a morale penalty at all (also being out of C2/out of LOS with one another and their HQ's). However, the 2 Ammo Bearer Teams (from the same platoon) servicing the surviving FlaK's, all unsighted/out of C2 with one another and their organic Plt. HQ, received a morale hit (in my particular case = "Cautious") at the very same & immediate moment their mates went "Rattled."

BFC are now officially aware of this immediate info sharing issue.

[stoex]

Thanks Winecape for taking the time to check this out in detail. Obviously what happens exactly is situationally dependent, and in the scenario I played I hadn't the opportunity to check the exact dependencies. I'm glad that the underlying issue will be looked at.

[gunnergoz]

Maybe the Force was strong with them.

[stoex]

Yeah, when indoctrinated fanatical love for the Vaterland runs wild, telepathic empathy is just around the corner...actually if they had had a little more time, do you think the Germans could have finished their Death Star and won the war?