Engineers and the low rock wall

[LeeW]

I've downloaded the demo to get used to the interface. I've found that it takes three demo charges to get a hole big enough in a low rock wall to drive a vehicle through. It looks like a demo blows one action spot wide, but maybe not, because it is still too tight for the AI to plot through a two action spot wide hole if so.

Also noticed that the AI will replot your moves. After thinking about it that would seem ok, since the driver is on the spot and will drive around spots that you aren't aware of. Even though we have an overhead view we don't have all the information about the environment, thus the AI makes changes. The tool tip isn't as helpful in this case as it used to be in CMx1. You could watch the tooltip for an indication of whether the terrain was passable or not. Doesn't seem to work that well with the new engine, or at least not as informative.

One can do alot with the new way points though. But the problem is when the AI decides to change your plot, it seems to lose the information of your waypoints that were moved. That means learning new game tactics that will still do what you're trying to accomplish.

[LeeW]

I've found that it takes three demo charges to get a hole big enough in a low rock wall to drive a vehicle through. It looks like a demo blows one action spot wide, but maybe not, because it is still too tight for the AI to plot through a two action spot wide hole if so.

Since I can't seem to edit my post I'll correct it this way.

After some more trial runs I've discovered what was being done wrong. One breech is indeed large enough to drive through. It was the timing in which the orders were being given that was messing me up. You can only give the order for the vehicle after the hole has been formed in the wall, other wise the AI plots a new route. Since it does the calculations at the beginning of the turn, the whole route needs to be prepared in advance.

[stikkypixie]

Since I can't seem to edit my post I'll correct it this way.

After some more trial runs I've discovered what was being done wrong. One breech is indeed large enough to drive through. It was the timing in which the orders were being given that was messing me up. You can only give the order for the vehicle after the hole has been formed in the wall, other wise the AI plots a new route. Since it does the calculations at the beginning of the turn, the whole route needs to be prepared in advance.

I don't know the exact timings for vehicles, but for infantry (so not the engineers) I find that pausing 30 seconds after the breach order STARTS is usually enough time for the non-breaching infantry to run through the gap. It can be a bit tricky to estimate when the engineers will get to their breach waypoint though. Have you tried pausing the vehicles for say 45 seconds relative to the breach order?

[Erwin]

The time delay after one issues a BLAST order and the time for other inf to assault thru the breach is rather critical for us WEGO-ers.

Is it always about 30 secs, or does their "breaching speed" depend on the quality of the engineers, and or other factors?

[LeeW]

The pause for the vehicle has to last until after the blast order is done, then the vehicle is plotted through the hole. If the pause runs out before the blast then the route plotted will be around the obstacle ignoring the hole. That was what happened to me several times, thus the wrong conclusion. So you can blast and move in the same turn as long as the movement doesn't start until after the blast is carried out.

If the engineers were under fire, that possibly would cause them to take longer to finish their job, but haven't observed this yet.

So to be safe and make sure things go as close to your plan as possible it would be wise to make the blast first, then plot moves through the hole in the following minute. This way if the blast isn't completed on time you won't have the AI replotting everything to some other location.

This is one aspect of the game which is fun for me, finding what tactic works in a given situation. They will be game engine specific and maybe not alway historical, but still part of the fun for me.:cool:

[stikkypixie]

If you suppress the surrounding area enough, the timings become less critical .

[Erwin]

Royal Mud Marines (UK) has lots of requirements for engineers to blow holes in things, if anyone wants to practice. You have to play a ways into the scenario to get to the buildings.

But it is one of the best/most fun CMSF scenarios I have played.

(I think there is a USMC version as well.)