unit descriptions

[easytarget]

I'm sure this has been covered before and probably lurks somewhere in the archives, but I couldn't find it.

I'm playing around with the quick battle part of the game working on setting something up to play PBEM.

I thought it would be interesting to also try out the points purchasing part of quick battle.

Problem: There are lots of units to choose from, and in the case of the germans in particular I'm a bit lost on what they are and what they do.

Is there an FAQ thread somewhere around here that describes units? And even better, is there a thread that goes through which ones are best for what jobs?

W/o some guidance on this I'm going to no doubt quickly discover that my purchasing is haphazard at best and I'd like to put things together with a bit of intelligence. The book is helpful in many areas, but has no listing of units and who/what they are.

[Max Power]

Andre Hesselroth's webpage has a two different files avialable for MS Excel that show unit information but not how/when/where to use them.

Learning unit capabilities is done by reading AAR's, tips from webpages like this one , and last but certainly not the least; in game experience. You might also try the CM Tips & Tricks section of the forum.

Hope this helps.

[easytarget]

Thanks for the reply! I'll check out the files and the web site.

I know ultimately I'll get the hang of things by playing battles and seeing the different units in action.

I just felt a bit lost on the quick battle set up page where you purchase units. Long list of names with little explanation.

[baditude]

I'ma new player and looking for unit inof as well. both the sites suggested in this therad no longer exist....anyone else know of a place where I can find ome good info on what each unit does?

[Dandelion]

The Germans used a number of basic vehicle designs:

The Panzer: PzKpfw IV, V and VI all models. Vehicle intended primarily for the destruction of enemy tanks and rapid exploitation duty.

The Panzerjäger: Jagdpanzer, "Panzer" IV/70, Hetzer, Marder, Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger, Nashorn, (StuG). Vehicle intended antitank work in the long range ambush role.

The Sturmgeschütz: StuG and StuH, vehicles intended for artillery support of infantry assaults.

Self propelled artillery: Wespe, Hummel. Vehicles intended to bring mobility (including terrain) and some amount of protection to the artillery of Panzer divisions, not combat vehicles in the sense of being exposed to hostile direct fire. Armour is mainly for protection against enemy counter-battery fire.

Self propelled antiaircraft guns: Wirbelwind, Ostwind, SdKfz variants. Vehicle intended to enable AA guns to keep pace with Panzer divisions in attack. Not indended as combat vehicles.

Armoured reconnaissance vehicles: PSW series, also the Lynx. Intended for the armoured recon role, i.e. advance to contact along roads. Not primarily combat vehicles, but in fact often employed as such.

Lightly armoured Infantry transport vehicles; The SPW 250 (recon) and 251 (Amd Inf) series. Vehicles intended to carry infantry at flank speed to escort armoured assault, or to reconnoitre. Not intended as combat vehicles exposed to direct hostile fire.

Prime movers and towers: The SdKfz 7, Truck and Kübelwagen. Certainly not combat vehicles.

Cheerio

Dandelion

[ July 02, 2003, 05:41 AM: Message edited by: Dandelion ]

[Maj. Battaglia]

Please check out these threads:

Types of German Infantry

German Infantry type knowledge

If you have more questions, feel free to post here again. I or anyone else here will be happy to answer.

[Dook]

Chris Hare's CM Database tables have lots of info on the various units available. You can find them here.

[Dandelion]

Actually Major B, I have a question, that I wonder if anybody has the answer to.

The Gebirgsjäger squads. AFAIK the Gebirg-Schützen-Gruppe did not differ in armament to any other infantry squad. Seven 98k and two MP38/40, with a MG34/42. Extra allotment of pistols, and later on some StG44 as well.

So what's this thingy we have in CM? Anybody know why it was created like this? A typo exchanging rifle and smg count?

Regards

Dandelion

[Maj. Battaglia]

Dandelion, I don't have a lot of info on the mountain units, but I would suspect that your sources are correct and the k98 should be the main weapon. I had not looked closely at the Gebirgsjäger before.

The difference is great. Compare the firepower strengths of these units (40m / 100m / 250m):

Rifle 44: 161 / 95 / 49

Rifle 45: 186 / 104 / 49

Gebirg: 315 / 119 / 39

I have to wonder if this is a mistake as well. Good catch!

[Gary T]

Ah, one of my pet peeves...I brought this up years ago in CMBO...apparently it is not a mistake. They, for some reason, believe GJ had more automatic weapons than normal infantry. Not sure why they think this though.

They have done the same for Jäger and GJ troops in CMBB. I brought it up but the point was completely ignored.

[Dandelion]

It would be interesting if they shared their source material. The source prompting their interpretation of the GJ I mean. Obviously they have access to something rather unique.

Meanwhile I guess one can depict Gebirgsjäger using ordinary Rifle infantry. I usually do. They'd normally use their helmets if not in alpine terrain anyway.

Still. Sad.

Cheerio

Dandelion

[Redwolf]

The Gebirgsjaeger have the high SMG load only from October 43 on.

The whole German army switched to use many more SMGs at that time. The rollback after Kursk is in full drive, troop quality dropped a lot and the Germans concentrated more than before on formations that would defend single objectives and make taking them too costly. As opposed to the previous state of things where they were -from thinking- offensive and on the defense would defend long lines, not so many single strongpoints.

The Jaegers switch to their high-SMG load at the same time and Rifle/Grenadier gets their second SMG per squad.

[Gary T]

Redwolf,

While your point is correct about the increase in automatic weapons from 1943 onwards this still doesn't explain why the GJ and Jaeger units are almost exclusively armed with SMG's. This suggests BFC think they were some sort of specialist assault infantry which they were not. All the evidence I have, and have seen, does not support the thesis that these units had more automatic weapons that the standard German infantry unit.

Gary.

[Dandelion]

Red, stating such a specific date it sounds as if you have a good source to share here? I have never seen any stating that the GJ or J followed any other K.St.N. than the infantry did. Nor have I ever seen a photograph of a GJ or J squad with such an array of smg's. So I am honestly curious and want to catch up on this.

I understand your point, though I'd say the drop in manpower as such, rather than the quality issue, prompted the introduction of increasingly smaller organisations with increasingly higher ratios of automatic and heavy weapons.

But I can't see the immediate connection to the GJ.

The smg is an assault weapon. If you want to raise defence potential of a unit, you'll do better to issue more mg's instead. The MP40 was not very useful at ranges beyond 50 meters, and virtually useless beyond 150 meters. Only in close quarters, such as in the urban environment, would the MP40 be handy. Initially, the smg was issued to command personnel in infantry companies, actually as a personal defence weapon very much akin to its namesake, the pistol. The men intended to actually fight were issued rifles and mg's.

As an assault weapons, the smg was issued in large quantities to typical assault units, such as Sturmpioniere (not in CMBO though) and parachute assault formations.

Irregular assault formations (e.g. Divisional or Regimental assault companies) and formations mainly employed for reconaissance and patrolling (e.g. Ski Jäger battalions) would also often have large amounts of smg's.

The GJ were not assault formations, nor specialised intelligence units, but just Bavarian and Austrian light infantry with a tradition of operating in mountains. They were dealt some high risk assault tasks in the beginning of the war since their light weight made them suitable for air- and naval transport.

But the same light weight made them unfit for modern war in any other context than extreme environments.

So I don't see the benefits of issuing more smg's to the GJ than was issued to archetype assault units such as Panzergrenadiers and paratroopers.

Finally I can't really see alpine terrain as the place where one will want a short ranged weapon. The environment rather invites scoped rifles.

But, all of this is academic really. I am actually assuming the BFC did have a original source when equipping the GJ like that, and so I suppose they really ran around with all those smg's. I just want the source to be able to study the reasons myself, as it certainly eludes me why they would have been thusly attired.

Regards

Dandelion