50 mm L60 gun underpowered or just unlucky?

[Syagrius]

I was playing the "prokohorova final" battle last night (which is great), and I witnessing something a little odd maybe: there was that lonely T-34 at the corner of the map and I had 4 Panzer III Ausf L attacking him. I am aware that the L60 has trouble beating the frontal armor of the T-34 over 500 meters, so I tried to get closer (lost one tank in the process), so I had 3 L60 guns firing at the commie at a range averaging 300 meters and all shots were continually bouncing. Tried to flank the commie but lost all my Panzers in the process. According the data available on the net, the L60 was able to beat frontal armor of the T-34 under 500 meters; was I just unlucky or else?

Also I would appreciate if someone tells me where I can find more battles and scenarios, I heard there is a site with hundreds of them^

Thanks in advance!

[Ted]

I can't tell you about the L60 but here are a couple of sites that have more scenarios than you'll ever be able to play

http://www.the-scenario-depot.com/

http://www.the-proving-grounds.com/

[JasonC]

The 50L60 doesn't have a prayer against the T-34 glacis. The hull that is. The hull is 45 degrees sloped 60 degrees from the vertical, which has the approximate resistence of 100mm of vertical armor.

The way 50L60 can kill a T-34 front aspect is with a turret hit. Only turret hits have a chance, and in a hull up duel the chance of those is about 1 out of 3 hits. And many of those will bounce, too. The turret is rated "round" in the game, and the angle for each hit is determined randomly. The turret armor is much thicker than the hull - varies with the specific model by 65mm is typical - but can be penetrated by 50L60 AP if the angle to the plate is under 30 degrees and the range is close.

Using APCR ammo ("T" in the game, for tungsten core), the range at which the T-34 turret front can sometimes be penetrated rises to about 900 meters. But only with the best angle to the hit, only for a turret hit, and only with T ammo. With normal AP you need to be much closer, inside 400 meters to have a decent chance of a partial penetration.

Before they had 50L60, with the earlier 50L42 e.g., the Germans told the men to close on the flanks to within 300 meters and use APCR. That was in 1941. In 1942, the doctrine was to flank and close, and whenever possible to fight whole platoons against single Russian vehicles ("hail fire", to let somebody get the sticky turret hit out of all the shells hitting the target, or to wreck it even with non penetrating hits through gun and track damage).

The Russians sought to stand off at around 1200 meters in 1942, because they could penetrate 50mm plate at that range (early IIIs, StuGs, Marders etc), as well as any side aspect hit (only 30mm on all of them). The later Panzer IIIs (like the L) with their 70mm fronts were thick enough they could shrug off all hits at that range however. Both sides needed to be close to get a kill. The Germans had no firepower advantage in that matchup, rather the reverse, but the uparmoring helped them survive down to around 600-700 meters range (in reality - in the game, more like 300-400, because the 20+50 modeling is very generous).

In the game, the Pz III L wants to duel hull down and the T-34 wants to duel hull up, and each is a modest favorite at close range if it gets its way on that. That is the most important factor in a head to head duel. At longer ranges, maneuvering for a side shot and platoon team work are more important, with the Pz III sides considerably more vulnerable than the T-34 sides (which also have pretty good slope etc).

[Syagrius]

Thanks alot Ted and JasonC, much appreciated