INVASION Campaign

[Erwin]

Just completed 2nd mission and I thought I had been very lucky and had done really well considering no arty or air support, but was disappointed to get a Sov Tactical Defeat.

Am wondering who has done better than I could and what might I be doing wrong?

My result:

Tribal Militia:

25 OK

57 KIA

35 WIA

Soviets:

20 OK

2 KIA

5 WIA

2 AFV KIA (the two disabled ones)

The game went in 3 or 4 turns overtime, and the Militia was doing a final suicidal attack into the guns of my Soviets along the side of the river. Had the game gone on another couple turns, I think the Militia would have been completely wiped out.

But, the game abruptly ended and I failed Enemy Condition; Friendly Casualties; Friendly Condition.

Am nervous about mission 3 which is going to be kinda the same thing - cutting off "fleeing" militia from safe routes out of the canyon.

[__Yossarian0815[jby]]

spoiler for mission 2

leave the mound, kill em all, don´t let them touch the "bridge", retake the mound.

mission 3 is a real *****. After many tries I managed a draw. I simply can´t figure out where all the exit areas of the Muj are.

[Alex]

2nd very simple just stand at place at shoot mujes by BMP, and all. Give them fire sectors for better spotting.

[Erwin]

I did it the way Alex suggests. I think one of the tactics that work is to use the inf for spotting, but with short arcs so they don't shoot - and let the BMP's do all the killing with area fire like arty - since they are almost immune to anything the Tribal Millitia has at over 250m.

But with all the fire being directed at the mound it seems inevitable that some Soviets will get hit.

So, maybe leaving the mound does work better. (But, doesn't that leave the two immobilized BMP's rather exposed?) Still I thought 2 KIA and 5 wounded would have given me a better result - especially since I was a couple turns away from destroying ALL the militia.

Am sorry that mission three is another defensive mission. I would have liked to go blow up a village or something.

[Alex]

One more, use your infantry to area firing, if enemy is close, just give to infantry attack area order (attack ground under invisible for inf enemy), it will help.

By the way my campaign result

[Erwin]

How many missions are there in the Invasion Campaign?

(My Red average per scenario so far is only 2-3 KIA, but maybe 10+ wounded. I think I may be having too many WIA.)

I appreciate the advice to area fire where you think there are suspected enemy. But, I always feel like I do not have enough ammo to do that.

[Alex]

8 missions, and I mast say only 1, 3, 4, 5 is interesting (also campaign have 2 reserve missions, but I don't know where you 'need' loose to see it).

Very interesting 2nd VDV campaign, it's very hard and good designed, I very like it.

You should remember, that your loses will go from mission to mission, If honestly, I don't understand, how you get so many casualties in 2nd mission. When I played it' duhi even don't get a one shoot, I kill them all at distance by BMP and some time infantry area attack.

I took almost half of my campaign casualties only in one 3rd mission.

[Erwin]

Your result in mission two is impressive. Given one starts with two bmp's that are immobilised, I found that eventually the militia must have crawled up close enuff to RPG them. (I didn't see the firer either time.) Only my mobile BMP survived as I moved it after almost every time it fired so the enemy couldn't pinpoint it's position in the dark. (Not sure why 2 BMP's are crippled. I may have done better if they were all mobile.)

When I could see the enemy, I pounded them with BMP HE. I kept my inf most of the time to 100m short arcs as again I didn't want them blowing all their ammo until the enemy was almost point blank. My inf's main job was to protect the BMP's from enemy RPG teams. (I did detach one 3 man team to guard the bridge.)

I only fired at confirmed contacts and very seldom at suspected inf positions, as I thought that would be a waste of ammo. You think that was the big difference? (Were you area firing LIGHT?)

BTW: I played at Elite level, you?

[pazuzusmiles]

Playing the mission right now: my inf. got seriously mauled holding the mound, the imobolized BMP's are my artillery as well but its just a matter of time before an rpg gets close enough to take them out. Fortunaetly in the first move of the battle I ordered some units over to the bridge for "gaurd" duty and they're in a good position taking out muji's that are trickling across. Meanwhile Ive got the boogey man crawling down out of the hills to get my red ass. target rich enviroment but not enough guns to get them all and I too am trying to save my inf from taking wild long shots..The use of target arc at 100m (short arcs) is a very useful tip for this amatuer. So far Im keeping casualities low but im gonna run out of ammo soon.......

[Erwin]

I hope Alex can give us more detailed pointers re what exactly he is doing to have such low casualties.

Is the trick to order the BMP's to LIGHT area fire at ANY contact? (They do have lots of MG ammo. But, you'd run out of HE ammo fast if you TARGETED.)

Getting at least a 3-man team to the bridge for spotting purposes (only) is essential I think. But, let the BMP's do all the shooting and keep the spotting inf heads down - at least till you sense the enemy is running out of steam.

As for saving ammo, my tactic was to use the inf (mostly NOT hiding) to spot the enemy as the BMP's wasn't that good at spotting, then use the BMP's as my arty to kill anything as far away as possible. But, I rarely let my BMP's AREA fire in order to save ammo. I also rarely allowed my inf to fire over 100m. Went to several turns overtime and had ammo left.

Felt a bit cheated by the system as the scen ended with the enemy making one last suicidal attack that I could see coming and I was prepped and sure to massacre them all. Of course I had still suffered lots of wounded and 2 dead BMP's...

So Alex... more detail re exactly what you did plz... (And am assuming you played on Elite level?)

[pazuzusmiles]

Yeah I conserved using area target except when my HQ team stumbled up on a muji machine gun team and was wiped out. I lost LOS on the killers as a result but I ordered all guns to that area and laid waste to it for one move(WEGO) It was only after my anger was quenched that it dawned on me one, although both members of HQ were wiped out, only one was dark red/brown however after my little burst of high velocity anger they were both dark brown!! Valuable lesson there, sure you sometimes have to saacrifice the one for the whole cause but try telling that to the dead pixeltruppins motherboard!

Alex where did you have your units positioned at the very beginning of mission? Scenario designers or yours? Im wondering if perhaps you were just fortunate enough to overwatch the areas muji were coming in before they spread out everywhere?

Great score! Elite level? I started out with even less troops than yours and Im being mauled...Its the final moments of the alamo in my game right now....

[Alex]

Guys I didn't do nothing special in this mission, I even don't change default positions, just stay at place and shoot mujis.

I played on IRON.

ONE IMPORTANT MOMENT!

Resupply you infantry units at full close to the mission ends, because in next mission you will have only infantry from this mission (without automatic resupplying) .

[pazuzusmiles]

Thanks for the ammo tip Alex....these tactical pics/maps are good as well. I am so low on ammo and but a handful of survivors Im tempted to call a ceasefire but wonder how that will affect my campaign? Plus I will probably be sent to the gulag for blowing it... Alex I noticed your icons were different than those that come with the game.What Mod are you using for these? They're great. Im using Arc at shorter distances to great affect. I am too frightened to play on iron so I salute you and your awesome score. Im thinking of restarting campaign cause I started on a wrong foot anyway Wasnt watching for mines and the soviet/afghan war was all about mines, thousands of them, still going off even to this day plus I discovered the frustrating horrors of urban warfare..Had to rethink my tactical approach to just about everything.

[Alex]

Don't worry it's not so bad if you draw or defeat some missions.

I using this one: http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=841

Real hard urban warfare it's "Karamankul" 2nd mission in VDV campaign.

I also restart campaign 2 times

[Erwin]

I been using those icons too. But, not sure they are worth the trouble. I liked the mod which showed which direction your units was facing.

And yes, Alex, it IS easier if you've played it b4 and know what is going to happen lol. Nevertheless, even with a do-over you still have an impressive score.

BTW: I always supplyl my men at the very start with all suitable ammo in case BMP's blow up. I didn't notice until you said it that I have exactly the same units in mission 3 with whatever ammo is left over. I have to see if I move a unit with high ammo next to a low ammo unit if they'll swap some ammo.

[pazuzusmiles]

will they do that?? Swap ammo between each other?

Just loaded the icons now, im studying soviet/afghan war now as well and its good to see soviet/nato symbols as I get familiar with everything..

But seriously can you swap ammo by getting one comrade close enough to the other? Like buddy aid?

[Alex]

But seriously can you swap ammo by getting one comrade close enough to the other? Like buddy aid?

As I know only heavy weapon ammo.

[Erwin]

Am pretty sure that ammo swapping is a new-ish feature. Lots of chat about it on the CMSF forums a week or two ago. Have to check if it's only for heavy weapons as I thought it was for all ammo.

BTW PAZ: if you are new, you should check on the CMSF forums as thre is always something new been found. Re snipers, you can resupply the 50cal/12.6mm ammo from a very few vehicles for example.

[pazuzusmiles]

thanks comrad I am flabergasted by all the extra dimensions of the game Im coming across in these forums! yes im a green horn to this motley bunch of gamers and grognards but Ive always read the forums and played since the barbarossa to berlin days

[Erwin]

Did you ever play CMAK? I still think CM1 is a better "game" system than CM2.

[pazuzusmiles]

Yes I still play CMAK,,and have played overlord but Ive always been a student of the eastern front so when Barbarossa-berlin came out I just went ga ga nuts however I cannot load CMBB on my vista computer for some reason..CMAK did so I play that along with CMSF and CMA all the time..I dont know I got spoiled by the improved graphics of the later cm games but CMO's engine is solid and the grandfather of what has proven to be the best tac-game thats ever existed

[Erwin]

All three of my CM1 games are heavily modded and for their purpose, (larger scale than CM2) I think look great.

I think of CM2 as a different game from the CM1 games, but sharing a similar interface.

[Cybertrand]

Played the 2nd mission, and got a minor defeat. Both right (river) and left sides of the attack were repelled, but in the middle, it seems a group was delayed, and began approaching just when the game ended the battle.

I didn't move a lot my units, most of them stayed near the starting position, just a few were sent near the bridge, to cover it. I had a few casualties here and there, but nothing dramatic.

All in all, i don't understand why i failed this mission, as i've done what was expected (that is defending). I suspect some script error, or perhaps some odd behaviour from the AI (lots of shooting in the middle of the maps, where many attackers were coming, so perhaps they were pinned). Anyway, it's not a very interesting scenario to play.

The first scenario in this campaign was far better. The third scenario, which i've just tried, is a pain in the ass to understand what's happening, and what to do. I just got a major defeat as i imagine many attackers escaped somewhere after i stoped the initial attack. My mortars were useless (i had targeted a crossroads, but the artillery support completely miss the target), and air support managed to kill several defenders, as instead of firing where indicated (that is where i suspected the enemy would come) the Hind managed to fire on my defending positions too - i admit i may have define an area target a bit close from my initial positions, but still, there was some distance ...

I suppose i should have immediatly send the russians hunting the attackers once they were stopped, but there was still a few rebels trying to rush through the russian lines (to their initial escapes zones). And you don't have that many soldiers too. I guess the survivors escaped somewhere else.

[Erwin]

The final attack must be planned as I had the same experience and was happily massacring the final attack when the game ended 3-4 turns overtime.

ALEX says that one needs to area fire a LOT as soon as you see a "?" icon pop up. To me that's a waste of ammo, as I thought that the "?" icons could cover a large area. But, (in CMA at least) apparently that tactic works.