improved waypoint, bail out, and hitching guns

[Vinnart]

This is a great game! I do not say that about many. I have been following its development from the beginning and have seen how it has improved with each installment. I LOVE the new tactical map, and hit info with KURSK. Great improvements!

The Only thing that I really think needs improving is the waypoint, bail out, and hitch/hitch commands. One of the best Game control systems I have ever played for this was in Sudden Strike 2 a certain predecessor for TOW. Here is how Sudden Strike 2 system worked, and I am sure anyone will agree the following described system is better than what the game currently uses, and hopefully will be considered for future inclusion. If I am wrong in missing something currently in the game regarding waypoints, and the ease of moving guns please let me know.

First off all In Sudden Strike the order ‘Bail Out” was called LOAD/UNLOAD. The order allowed one to UNLOAD AT A LOCATION, or DIRECTLY ONTO A BUILDING, or A GUN, and Unload at PRESENT location (The current way the Bail Out order works. This alternate command was accessed by selecting the UNLOAD COMMAND + Alt key). Like wise the loading and unloading of towed guns worked in much the same way. Sudden Strike 2’s GUI did a good job of utilizing the CTRL and Alt keys, or combo of both along with primary order hotkeys to get the most out of orders, and variation of orders while keeping it easy for the player to access. This gives each hotkey the possibility of assigning up to 4 different functions.

Primary hotkey order

Primary hotkey order + Ctrl key

Primary hotkey order + Alt Key

Primary hotkey order + Ctrl key + Alt Key

Here are some examples of what a player could do while holding down the Shift key to issue WAYPOINT orders in Sudden Strike 2 including the loading and unloading of infantry, ammo boxes, and the hitching and unhitching of guns.

USING TRANSPORT VEHICLE WITH PASSNGER INFANTRY:

A player could select a transport with infantry in it, then select unload order, then right click on either a map location, a house, or gun. The vehicle would drive to any of the above, and the infantry would unload onto the map location, or occupy the specified building, or gun.

Select a bunch of infantry, Hold shift, Right click on one gun, then the next gun and so on. The first guys to get to the fist gun occupy it, then the rest run to the next gun and occupy and so on. You could do this with loading bunches of men on to bunches of tanks very easily. In Sudden Strike infantry could ride on tanks, which I would love to see in TOW. Since follow is the default command in TOW when friendly unit is selected, and curser is over another friendly this command and behavior could be set and accessed by holding the CTRL key down while hovering icon over another friendly to change the curser to the load command while hovering over a unit infantry can load to.

A player could create a waypoint chain to go there unload this guy, then go there and unload that guy and so on. In Sudden Strike there were ammo crates, A truck could be ordered to pick some up then go drop off a box here, and then go there and drop 2 boxes of and so on.

USING TRANSPORT VEHICLE WITH GUNS

While holding shift key down a player could select a truck, then select the hitch order, and then select a gun, and the truck will go and hitch the gun.

A player could select a truck and hover the cursor over a gun, and the cursor would change to a hitch icon. Right click on the gun and the transport will go hitch the gun.

A player could select a truck with infantry towing a gun. The truck could be told to drop the gun (crew automatically go, and stay with it unless relieved) there, then drop the infantry off here.

A player could select a truck, or group of trucks, and a gun, or group of guns together, and select the hitch order. The closest truck would go to the closest gun and hitch it. Then select the move order and right click another area on the map. After hitching the guns the transport would move the guns to the new location.

To get crew to bail out one would right click on the unit’s icon in the passenger compartment graphic. Also gun crews stayed with the guns when hitching, and unhitching which I think is more logical and lower micro managing. If one wants to change gunners, just right click on a crew icon in passenger graphic to unload a guy, and then load a new guy to take his place.

All the above command and control I have mentioned here are more efficient, easier, and stream lined from the current system the game uses for unloading and loading infantry, and hitching and moving guns. Everything else in this game is great, and getting better with each build. Developers please consider adapting some of these ideas to make TOW the ULTIMATE in all aspects. If a game 8 yrs old could do that I am sure a game of today could. Developers, I have an extra copy of SS2 if you can’t find it and want to see what I mean.

[liquidcactus]

i played all the sudden strike games, they were awesome days, i wish u could have as many units on the battlefeild in TOW2 as you could in SS series

[Gnasher]

Agree 100% SS2 & HS/HS2 are really fun to play & IMO the most fun MP games still. I too wish ToW could accomodate battlion/regiment sized battles with all the associated support units.

[Vinnart]

Yes, they were fun, but in comparison to TOW they were more on the stereotypical side RTS geared more to the clickfest with splashes of realism. TOW2, and soon TOW3 are so much more realistic, and much less geared to that negative stereotype of RTS games. It is honestly the ONLY PURE RTS game that is geared toward a more mature audience such as the one Battlefront caters to. If TOW series didn't break the mold to compare to Combat Mission I doubt Battlefront would have gotten behind the game. They have a reputation for quality, fun games with more of a realistic touch.

In regards to needing 1,000,s of units, and seeing 100,s of corpses on the map being important for me it is not. Leave that to the kid’s games, and all the rest of the stereotypical RTS games out there. I hope that TOW does not try, or feel it needs to go in that direction. I think the amount of units one would find in Combat Missions (Usually a battalion being the largest) is plenty enough units to satisfy, and manage. I would rather play game like CM, and TOW that have less units say a game Like Total War that one must use intelligently to win. Too many units create too much system requirements than is practical. As it is TOW is a system requirement hog. I think that is one reason why it has not blossomed in more forum activity. I would love to get TOW2 Kursk, but do not meet minimum system requirements (although demo seems to be playable lowest graphics, half speed). When more peolple”s systems meet the requirement of the game I feel it will get the community it deserves, especially with MP. One thing I have noticed that I really like about this game is I am not finding it the click fest that turns many people used to turn base games off from RTS. Alos, too many units gets too hard to manage in RTS in my opinion.

I think TOW2, especially with the Kursk improvemnets has some of the best command and control ideas I have used to date. Good, easy command and control is a MAJOR part of RTS that makes or breaks it. I’ll include good camera control in s well which it has. TOW2 is 90% there in regards to C&C. My comments are meant to improve an already great, and inteligently thought out game. A fantastic WAYPOINT system is one of those command and control aspects that is crucial to easily, manageable RTS play.

This game WILL be a classic. It is just a little ahead of its time at the moment.

[Destraex1]

SS I played the demo of. Thought it had many options but was ultra unrealistic aswell as the infantry looking like dwarves.