Some observations/questions on Canadian TO&E:

[akd]

1. Each LAVIII carries two SRAAW(M)s, but with only one round for each SRAAW(M), in addition to the SRAAW(M) carried by the 4th section. The rifle squad however carries just two M72s and none are available in the vehicle. This means the mech rifle platoon has 9 heavy, long, crew-served recoilless rifles with one shot each, but just 8 portable LAWs.

I've read conflicting sources, some saying that the SRAAW(M) is a platoon HQ weapon, and others that it is a section-level weapon served by a dedicated crew of two (this latter may be Cold War organization, however). Certainly there are better uses for the space in the LAVIII than carrying two Carl Gustafs with just one round each.

reference:

B Coy maintained a three-layer approach to anti- armour weapons – light, medium, and heavy.

Short range continued to be covered by the M72 rocket. Readily available in the LAV III carriers or patrol packs, the disposable M72 was perfect for neutralizing most armour threats in theatre. Since each section carried two M72s, the rocket could also be employed against bunkers or enemy soldiers in the open.

If a heavier threat materialized, the 84mm Carl Gustav rocket was the main system for medium engagements (and regularly carried in the Pl HQ LAV III). Firing both standard and rocket-assisted munitions, the Carl Gustavs were more than capable of destroying all known potential armour threats that existed in Afghanistan.

Although normally stored with the Company Quartermasters Stores, B Coy also kept available the Eryx short-range guided missile system. With a range of only 600m (insufficient by most opinions), the Eryx warhead was overkill with respect to any potential armour threat in theatre.

Rockets and missiles aside, the main anti-armour system employed by B Coy was the 25mm M242 Chain Gun mounted in the turret of the LAV III carrier. Firing armour– piercing and frangible ammunition, the 25mm cannon could destroy any hostile armoured vehicle out to 2200 metres.

http://armyapp.dnd.ca/allc-clra/Downloads/bulletin/TheBulletinVol12No3eng.pdf

LAV stowage plan

14b - Pl Comd’s vehicle only

-1 x short-range anti-armour weapon (medium) (SRAAW(M)) 84 mm

-6 x SRAAW(M) 84 mm ammo in the containers

and

19 - Combat supplies summary

Ammo:

-25 mm

210 ready rounds (rds)

210 stowed rds

-7.62 mm link

440 ready rds (coax)

1,320 stowed rds

880 rds carried by pl wpns det (pl HQ veh

only)

-5.56 mm link

200 ready rds (pintle)

3,200 stowed rds

1,400 rds carried by sect (sect veh only)

-5.56 mm ball

2,450 stowed rds

2,450 carried by sect pers (350 per soldier with

C7 rifle)

-grenade, 76 mm (smoke or HE)

8 ready rds

8 stowed rds

-grenade, frag, hand x 12 (stowed)

-grenade, hand, smoke x 4 (stowed)

-84 mm rounds x 6 (pl HQ veh only)

-claymore mines x 3

-para flare x 12

-trip flare x 2

-signal flare x 12

http://armyapp.dnd.ca/ael/pubs/B-GL-321-007-FP-001.pdf

2. The Coyote LAVs, however, are chock full of M72s and AT4s (does Canada even use AT4s?). No one can access this ammo. The vehicle's crew can't "acquire" and no one else can enter the vehicle.

3. The mech infantry section has no M203s. The pioneer and light infantry sections have one m203. What I've read suggests that both in principle and practice the Canadian infantry sections have 2 m203s, one per fire team. Despite their absence, the infantry section LAV IIIs are chock full of 40mm ammo.

reference:

When a situation demanded more firepower than small arms could deliver, B Coy possessed a number of fragmentation weapons. At the section level, the M203A1 grenade launcher (above) mounted on the C7A2, remains the most accessible and potent. Firing a 40mm fragmentation round out to 300m, an M203A1 could quickly suppress any enemy advance with accurate grenade fire.

http://armyapp.dnd.ca/allc-clra/Downloads/bulletin/TheBulletinVol12No3eng.pdf

4. As noted elsewhere, the manned-turret Nyala seems to have the properties of the Nyala RWS.

5. G-wagen and Nyala turrets don't respond to cover arc commands.

[LJFHutch]

I just played a H2H and found the Canadians to be almost completely useless against any form of armour, they only had access to 2 M72s per squad and 2 Carl G's with 1 [HE] round each. As for the LAV, when firing on a Marder it consistently failed to damage it, despite having roughly 1-2 minutes before being destroyed (probably 600m away).

[akd]

Correction to above, Canadian mech infantry platoon has access to total of only 6 M72s.

6. Infantry sections (mech at least) should have light assault radios.

7. Because infantry sections (other than 4th section) don't have radios and the section leader can't communicate with his vehicle crew when dismounted, and because the LAV commander (i.e. gunner) can't unbutton and thus can't communicate orally/visually with the dismounted section and apparently only has vision through the gun sight, LAVs are almost totally blind when their section is dismounted.

[Carbon-14]

We didn't use Carls G's much at all in Afghanistan, I think we only had 3 or so in the company. We did have crap loads of M72s though.

There were lots of M203s in the platoons. 2 per sections sounds right.

I'll also add my post from this threat here:

I'm pretty sure the TO&E for the Canadian mechanized section is wrong. Right now there are 8 dismounts and 2 vehicle crew. I believe it should be 7 dismounts and 3 crew. The crew commander wouldn't dismount with the rest of the section (He'd have a hell of a time squeezing out between the turrent and hull.)

As well the company headquarters is wrong. There should be 3 LAVs. 1 for the OC, 1 for the LAV Captain, and 1 LAV CP for the 2IC.

Also, why is there no FAC with the FOO??

[Carbon-14]

Correction to above, Canadian mech infantry platoon has access to total of only 6 M72s.

6. Infantry sections (mech at least) should have light assault radios.

7. Because infantry sections (other than 4th section) don't have radios and the section leader can't communicate with his vehicle crew when dismounted, and because the LAV commander (i.e. gunner) can't unbutton and thus can't communicate orally/visually with the dismounted section and apparently only has vision through the gun sight, LAVs are almost totally blind when their section is dismounted.

You're right, every section would have at least a LAR. Every section member would also have a personal radio. If you zoom in on the model, you can even see it.

[akd]

We didn't use Carls G's much at all in Afghanistan, I think we only had 3 or so in the company. We did have crap loads of M72s though.

There were lots of M203s in the platoons. 2 per sections sounds right.

I'll also add my post from this threat here:

Regarding your other post, I found the following in one of the sources above. Does this reflect actual practice?

18. Section Command Structure. There are three command

positions within the section:

a. Section Commander. The section commander is

crew commander qualified. When the vehicle is

moving, he usually commands from the right-hand

seat in the turret. He may or may not lead the

dismounted element. If he does dismount, his

position in the turret is taken by the section 2IC. If

the section commander does not dismount, he

commands the Zulu LAV.

b. Section 2IC. The section 2IC is crew commander

qualified. When the vehicle is moving, he is usually

in the rear. If the section commander dismounts, the

section 2IC replaces him in the turret. If the section

commander does not dismount, the 2IC commands

the dismounted section.

c. Section 3IC. The section 3IC is not necessarily

crew commander qualified and always dismounts

with the section.

19. Dismounting in Contact with the Enemy. Dismounting

while in contact with the enemy is conducted as either a deliberate or a

hasty action as follows:

a. Deliberate Dismount. In this circumstance, the

commander knows in advance that he is going to

dismount in contact with the enemy and will usually

know where and when. An example of this would

be the dismount that precedes the fight through the

objective in either a hasty or a deliberate attack. The

commander has the ability to reorganize the

personnel within the LAV in preparation for the

dismount. Specifically, he ensures that the

commander he wants to lead the dismounted

element has moved to the back and the commander

he wants to command the vehicle has moved to the

turret. This occurs while the vehicle is out of

contact, normally at the RV.

b. Hasty Dismount. In this circumstance, the

commander does not know in advance that he is

going to be required to dismount in contact. An

example of this would be the normal immediate

reaction drills to an ambush. It is essential to both

keep the gun in action and to dismount the section

immediately. In a hasty dismount there is no

changing of command positions within the vehicle:

the commander in the turret remains there and the

commander in the back leads the dismounted

element.

20. Personnel Locations Inside the LAV III. Section, platoon

and company commanders normally command from the right-hand

side of the turret. If they are dismounting to lead operations on the

ground, they move to the rear of the vehicle and are replaced in the

turret. Due to the necessity of taking the turret out of action when

changing personnel, the change around normally takes place before the

dismount. Positions in the back of the vehicles described below are

recommended and can be changed depending on the circumstances:

a. Section Vehicle—Mounted Locations. When the

section is expected to remain mounted, the section

commander usually occupies the right-hand turret

seat to maintain maximum situational awareness.

The section 2IC usually sits in the rear at the middle

right, where he has the best access to the crew

situational awareness monitor (CSAM), control

integration (CI) and TacNav. The section 3IC sits

beside him. The two C9 gunners sit beside the ramp

where they can:

(1) be the first personnel out of the vehicle on

the dismount, and

(2) act as sentries in the rear cargo hatches and

be attached to the rear CI.

b. Section Vehicle—Dismount Locations. If the

section commander is going to dismount, before

doing so, he moves to the rear of the vehicle and is

replaced in the turret by the section 2IC. The only

change in the back is the section commander takes

the section 2IC’s seat. If possible, this change is

made via the cargo and turret hatches as this is much

faster than going through the hole in the turret

basket guard. Regardless, the crew commander

locks the turret before the change around to prevent

injury.

c. Platoon Commander Vehicle—Mounted

Locations. When the platoon is expected to remain

mounted, the platoon commander occupies the righthand

seat in the turret. The LAV Sgt occupies the

left-hand seat, acts as the platoon commander’s

gunner, and is in a position where he is fully current

with the situation. The platoon 2IC rides in the back

of the Charlie C/S and, if that section is fully up to

strength, one soldier from that section rides in the

platoon HQ vehicle. The gunner sits in the middle

right seat, where he can maintain situational

awareness and listen via the CI.

d. Platoon HQ Vehicle—Dismount Locations.

Before the dismount, the platoon commander moves

to the rear of the vehicle and takes the gunner’s seat,

the LAV Sgt takes the platoon commander’s place,

and a gunner moves up from the back. If at all

possible, this change around is done externally,

using the turret and cargo hatches as this is much

faster than going through the hole in the turret

basket guard. Regardless, the turret is locked by the

platoon commander before the change around begins

and is not unlocked by the LAV Sgt until the change

around is completed.

http://armyapp.dnd.ca/ael/pubs/B-GL-321-007-FP-001.pdf

There does not seem to be any situation in which the LAV is left without a commander.

Also, why is there no FAC with the FOO??

An LAV III FAC section can be purchased separately in the editor, but I guess the question is should one be part of the independent battlegroup? If not, that would be the only "battlegroup" type unit in the game without a FAC.

[Carbon-14]

Regarding your other post, I found the following in one of the sources above. Does this reflect actual practice?

http://armyapp.dnd.ca/ael/pubs/B-GL-321-007-FP-001.pdf

There does not seem to be any situation in which the LAV is left without a commander.

I thought that the Section Commander always rode in the back. I asked an infanteer friend of mine (I am not an infanteer) and he told me the same thing.

Yes, there is no situation where the LAV is left without a crew commander. Even moving the vehicle requires either a crew commander (or a ground guide). I suppose the gunner *could* be the crew commander but gunners were always Cpl/Ptes and Crew Commanders were atleast MCpls

An LAV III FAC section can be purchased separately in the editor, but I guess the question is should one be part of the independent battlegroup? If not, that would be the only "battlegroup" type unit in the game without a FAC.

Thankyou, I didn't see him there. It's still odd. Our FAC was always riding in the same vehicle as the FOO.

[Waycool]

Nicely detailed AKD. The Carl G lack of anti armour capability caught my attention as well. If he Carl G was used like the PIAT team as a platoon weapon you would think we would have a 2 man team one with the Carl and one ammo Sherpa/personal (with at least 2-3 rounds HEAT HE) protection for the Carl G gunner.

[akd]

I thought that the Section Commander always rode in the back. I asked an infanteer friend of mine (I am not an infanteer) and he told me the same thing.

Yes, there is no situation where the LAV is left without a crew commander. Even moving the vehicle requires either a crew commander (or a ground guide). I suppose the gunner *could* be the crew commander but gunners were always Cpl/Ptes and Crew Commanders were atleast MCpls

Thank you for the confirmation and further clarification.

Thankyou, I didn't see him there. It's still odd. Our FAC was always riding in the same vehicle as the FOO.

Well, you can cheat and delete the FAC LAV and stick the FAC section in the FOO LAV, I suppose.

8. Comments regarding the Carl Gustafs in LAVs also apply to the Nyala-mounted light infantry platoon. I seriously doubt every Nyala would have two Carl Gustafs with one round of ammo each stowed aboard.

[Battlefront.com]

Ooops... wrong thread Post moved to correct thread.

Steve