Visibility distances?

[noxnoctum]

Does anyone know exactly how far a unit can see out of/into woods. For example, if I have a squad in a wooded area facing off against another squad in a wooded area (across a short open area), how deep in can I place my squad in my wooded area and still be able to see the edge of the open area (on my side).

Sorry, hope that makes some semblance of sense :confused:

[Cuirassier]

If it is not winter, then I think it is 26m.

[cinacchi]

As a general indication, you can doo some test with the LOS tool: with you squad in the woods, trace a line with the LOS tool in the direction of your opponent squad. Pay attention when the line change from blue to red, and measure the distance to that point. Then, just for safety add some more meters.

In fact it is not the same distance each time: many factors affect it, from the time to the weather conditions, to the "stealth ability" of your squad, to the setting they have (hidden or not), etc. With the LOS tool you can make test with the different conditions

[John Kettler]

noxnoctum,

This thread should help.

http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=39831

But this one has exactly what you need.

http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=39867

Regards,

John Kettler

[Drager]

There seem to be so many variables from scenerio to scenerio it seems impossible to be able to nail it down to "XXX" meters in snow, or XXX meters non-snow.

I could be mistaken, but it seems the AI "cheats" if you will... quite a bit. Granted, I play on Extreme Fog of War, but it seems AI can hammer away on my guys hiding in rough, rubble, or pines, no matter what their range, thats even when my guys have a squad leader with +1 or +2 stealth. On the flip side I see their tanks "hide" while they're under fire during the action phase... That's when they're still clearly within line of sight(I test this during my next movement phase, and their "star" is clearly within LOS, their tank is apparently "hidden" somehow). I've even seen AI bunkers "hide" while under direct fire. I'm really not sure how a fixed bunker can hide, but they do.

Your best bet is to test out your LOS for each type of terrain at the beginning of each different scenerio by using the LOS tool and go from there.

[Cuirassier]

Drager,

There are fixed values of LOS for each terrain type. If you experiment enough, you can memorize them all. I don't know the winter values, but quick tests could easily find them out. For example, when there isn't snow on the ground, woods are 26m, scattered trees 54m and tall pines 36m (I'm pretty sure these values are correct. I know they are fixed in any case).

The AI can't cheat with LOS. It follows the same rules as the player. When units "hide", as you say, the aren't necessarily out of LOS. It just means that your unit can no longer make them out, which may mean the enemy has taken cover in a trench, hidden in the trees, or your men are too suppressed to spot well enough.

[jtcm]

Walpurgis Nacht knew those pat, in all the conditions-- the values are, indeed, fixed, and you should know them when setting out for the fight. You can do all kinds of redoubtable things, e.g. move to within 1 m of LOS and throw a satchel or fire a FT...

[Drager]

Drager,

There are fixed values of LOS for each terrain type. If you experiment enough, you can memorize them all. I don't know the winter values, but quick tests could easily find them out. For example, when there isn't snow on the ground, woods are 26m, scattered trees 54m and tall pines 36m (I'm pretty sure these values are correct. I know they are fixed in any case).

The AI can't cheat with LOS. It follows the same rules as the player. When units "hide", as you say, the aren't necessarily out of LOS. It just means that your unit can no longer make them out, which may mean the enemy has taken cover in a trench, hidden in the trees, or your men are too suppressed to spot well enough.

Thx for the info. I'm still wondering how a fixed bunker(structure) can "hide". Sure, I understand the guy inside may be pinned, or taking cover, but the bunker(the structure itself) is still there.

I had 4 stationary PIIIJ on line trying to take out 2 bunkers, each with a clear LOS up to,and beyond the bunkers. Weather clear, range 600 to 800m, my 4 units were stationary, not taking any fire, no smoke or burning terrain in the immediate area, and the bunkers kept turning into a star randomly every action phase. They'd pop out of hidden status, when the units inside would open fire on my infantry. I'd have to reassign them as targets for the pzs, then the bunkers would disappear again the next action phase when my units landed hits..

They were eventually abandoned, but it seemed a bit of a stretch seeing the bunkers/structures keep dropping out of sight when my units fired on them.

[Michael Emrys]

I don't know what the designers had in mind, if anything, to account for that. But a hypothetical real-world explanation occurs to me. The bunkers appear when they fire because the muzzle flashes are highly visible. After firing they might disappear if well camouflaged and on the edge of spotting distance due to lingering gunsmoke—both theirs and your tanks'—obscuring them. For whatever it is worth.

Michael