c3k Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Gents, More... It seems that air support has some fairly rigid priorities when given an Area Target. First, any enemy infantry, if nothing else is there. Cool. Next, if ANY vehicle is present, it gets hit. Not good. Perhaps, a better ID routine for friendly vs. enemy vehicles could be coded? Case in point (repeated many times, works each time). Place an area target circle. Scatter just a few enemy in it - no vehicles. Open-ish ground. Some cover, but not too much. Now, drive one of your vehicles NEAR the perimeter. It WILL be targeted. I'm not griping about the out-of-the-perimeter aspect, it's the consistent targeting of friendly vehicles. Radio communications should preclude that, in MOST instances. Right now, it is NEVER precluded. Air support + nearby friendly vehicles - any nearby enemy vehicles = dead friendly vehicles. Each time. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I'm no pilot, but I'm sure that even without radio communications, an Abrams tank is pretty distinct from Red vehicles from an Apache and even fixed-wing aircraft pilot's perspective. I don't know about Strykers and Bradleys, but they seem pretty distict too. So yes, I agree something should be changed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Oh, I dunno. A proper ID seems harder then one would think. During Operation Iraqi Freedom POPOV36, a US A-10, managed to twice strafe a column of Scimitars despite the orange reflective ID panels visible to him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Sure, there are examples of friendly fire. Earlier (in a previous air support thread, since hijacked) I mentioned that the example of a US pilot firing on a Scimitar when BMP-2/3's are operating nearby, would be possible. Of course, PROCEDURALLY, it should not; but, if a pilot and the FAC do not have good comms, or are unsure of the location of friendly units, then friendly fire can happen. If there are no enemy vehicles in the area, and everyone KNOWS there are no enemy vehicles, I'm asking that my FRIENDLY vehicles not be considered a target priority. Again, this is consistent. There is NO target identification procedure if a friendly vehicle is near the area target and no enemy vehicle is there. The friendly vehicle WILL be destroyed. That's out of balance. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 All I can say is that I'm not seeing the same thing. Getting hit by my own air support is a very rare thing. I'm frequently calling in air support within 3-500m of friendly vehicles (and/or infantry) and can't even recall when last I got hit with it instead. On occasion I've called it in closer then that, yet still no FF recently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Elmar Bijlsmar, Thanks. I appreciate your additions to this topic. If I may, when you've called in air support within 3-500 meters of friendly vehicles, were enemy vehicles in the area target zone? Or, was it a point target? (Or NO enemy vehicles?) Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 During Operation Iraqi Freedom POPOV36, a US A-10, managed to twice strafe a column of Scimitars despite the orange reflective ID panels visible to him. There is a bit more to that story than commonly told; all forces in theater were told to stop displaying their air recognition panels because it had been discovered that Iraqis vehicles were using something similar. Presto! Anything with orange is suspect. Back to CMSF, does the JTAC see the friendly vehicle as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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