Brute Force: Pacific MOD

[Big Al]

I am continuing work on Brute Force PDE to improve the AI. I finally ran the MOD on a 1Ghz machine and it crawled, yuk. On my duo-core it doesnt take long. I will continue perfecting the AI for the mod until I get it right. The same scripting will be used for Brute Force using the Pacific Engine. I am running AI vs AI games to make sure they all work correctly as I design the Pac model. When I have the AI working well for both sides I will then look to shorten the AI PC time by replacing scripts and reworking them to make the game go faster.

I worked for 6 hours deciding on the map scale and structure doing some research. The map is 256x128 ~40 miles per hex on Europe and ~80 mile per hex on Pacific. I wanted to make both maps to scale but one problem I found with the Pacific is the size of the armies in comparison to areas covered and the scale of the game corp/army level. While in Europe 40 miles per hex is about 2 corps per hex and works well in the Pacific it doesnt. In the whole Pacific campaign vs the allies the Japanese deployed at maximum 24 divisions and the allies 34. At 3-5 divisions in each SC2 corp its about 6-10 units on the map per side. If I made the pacific to Europe scale there would be a lot of empty space.

At the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, the IJA had 51 divisions of which 35 were in China, and 39 independent brigades of which all but one were in China. This represented roughly 80% of the IJA's manpower. (FROM WIKIPEDIA) ~11-18 corp in China SC2 scale total. If I made China 40 miles per hex there would be large gaps in the lines and it would become a who encircles who game, which I dont find very fun, just annoying and tedious.

The Pacific and Europe scale will be larger than the PDE version but I think just enough to make the game exciting. The whole USA is now on the map which solves the AI sub problem I had with split maps since US subs are only attacking Japanese convoys.

As I test PDE AI I will work on the Pac version transfering over the scripts. I will make a NON-AI version 1st so everyone can enjoy it. I have included a snap shot of the map. Black areas are unused. I placed in all areas of importance in the war while leaving room for what ifs. I didnt think West Africa or South America was needed. if the axis get that far... Venezuela is included as they shipped oil to the allies.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

[SeaMonkey]

Very nice, Big Al, looking forward to playing this baby, I don't need the AI.

Let me know when its ready for testing........and forum...I will need an opponent.

[Big Al]

I do not think I will me moving the AI over to PAC. I have worked on it for PDE and I simply can't get the USA or Japan to invade anything even though I have the scripts set up correctly and the units right on the god damn resourse hex as a present for them to take and invade the island next door. I have looked over my AI scripts for both 100 times and I simply cant figure out why they dont even try and execute.

Unless someone tells me PAC AI is better...

[Big Al]

Update on work. Doing terrain for Finished Terrain for Americas.

[SeaMonkey]

Don't worry about the AI Big Al, just get this thing going for h to h play.

Glad to see you making progress, take your time...work when you feel inspired.

[Big Al]

UPDATE map is going well. I had to make some adjustments but Im mostly done. My concept of a game is simple in design and play, multitude of options, doesnt take 1 hour to do a turn, but the strategy is complex.

Some questions for you all on the next step, so I wanted your input.

#1 The scale of the map is allowing me to possibly make a different scale.

--- lots of corps few armies for targeted campaigns such as the Russian front is all corp but you move all your armies to the south for Case Blue. Units increased in value

--- standard mix of equal armies/corps as in original

--- corp/division level game which will fit in with pacific better. Units increased in value

#2 Do you want me to bother with iconsequential areas? Like islands in the Pacific that have no impact on the game. I usually focus on fewer important strategic locations than many smaller locations that can make a minor difference.

#3 Should I label everything? which clutters the game board. Or should I label areas of importance for reference and feel.

The map includes all nations in the pacific, the east african coast to india, urals, all of usa.

[Big Al]

Update on Brute Force 1939-1945

The game is completed for human vs human play. Right now I am going through the new scripts and some of the early game to make sure it is balanced. Everything is based on the PDE version with some changes.

The Pacific map is about the same scale as PDE version if not a little larger but It covers all of the USA to the east coast of Africa.

The European map is large enough for tactical maneuvering, more so than the previous version.

Because of the scale of the map and I fit as much as I could the game is on a corp level with some divisions for smaller battles and the pacific.

Ship and airpower scale are the same as previous versions which now fit better with this size.

So sometime this week I will be uploading it. I am play testing till 6/1941 playing a standard German game of 41 barb. If I can get to that point I can see if the scope, size, # of units, tech, and playability are correct.

A few more interesting decisions and improvements to scripts have been added using some tricky maneuvering on my part

[SeaMonkey]

If you send it to me, bradtap@aol.com, I'll run it through some turns on hotseat.

It'll work with the PT edition, right?

[Big Al]

yea Pacific Theatre edition

[Big Al]

Ooops just realized I didnt put im the weather systems.

Let me get that in.

[Big Al]

Ok folks the MOD is up. The unit/tech costs need to be adjusted because I changed the scale from army/corp to corp/division. So more casualties in land combat are involved in combat with the higher firepower in units. While I think late in the war this hopefully will balance out I feel the problem will be in the 1st 3 years. So I made a judgement call on the production and X my fingers it is close to accurate.

If you play I would like to know the size of the German and Russia armies if you plan to do a 1941 barb or 1942 barb or even a 1943 sitzkreig.

USA, UK, Japan, Italy it really shouldnt affect.

Germany and USSR is where Im concerned.

Even though I made production historical the game still needs to be balanced for fun.

And please comment good or bad. I dont care if its insulting a game on this scale is very hard to create.

Also take note on airpower ranges. See if its still ok or if I have to modify it. For the UK the STR bombers for Canada are naval ASW bombers not normal strat bombers. Keep that in mind.

Tech is 3/2/2/1/1% for level increases, see if that works. What I found is that it is fair to get a level 5 by 1943 but then you will lack far behind in most other categories. I tested this in PDE playing the AI where I had super airpower and my land units sucked.

AI for PDE is doing fairly well I have made it quite better. I will keep working on it so I can move it to PAC version (which should be ez)

[SeaMonkey]

Has anyone tried Big Al's "Brute Force", other than of course Big Al himself?

If so, how does it compare to Nupremal's world version?

[Big Al]

I actually have to upload a new version, nothing major

[SeaMonkey]

Hey Big Al. I just Dled it on to a flash drive at work, couple of hours ago, did I get the new version?

Looking forward to getting it on my laptop at home; so....its ready for h to h play?

[Big Al]

The new version only has 1 minor fix which isnt important. The newer version has more text fixes and I am adding some more. I am uploading it Wednesday with more text fixes and additions. its ready to play though

[SeaMonkey]

I ran through a couple of turns last night, just a hotseat against myself, trying to get a feel for the play. Noticed a lot of units, infantry is in Corps and Division sizes, many start overstrength, perhaps the map is a little cluttered.

One thing, those land units didn't last long, combat is very bloody. For some reason the actual combat results are consistently more than the game's display of probable expected losses. The movement rates are higher for land units, lots of opportunity for maneuver, I haven't checked out the naval aspects yet.

I also noticed a lot of cities with 13 map displayed values, but their selected supply values were only 10 in the bottom of the screen info panel? The map is well laid out, I just wish it was bigger to accomodate the extra pieces and added AP values. I can see there will be supply problems in some regions as the historical models.

Lots of decision events and a nicely done splash screen at the beginning, a very professional job. This campaign looks very interesting with not a lot of units in the build Q, are there many scripted to arrive?

Well Rambo, what do you think? Want to give a go, since our Nupremal game is obsolete (1.03) and the Amis are yet to come in (88%), already April 43.

[Big Al]

I ran through a couple of turns last night, just a hotseat against myself, trying to get a feel for the play. Noticed a lot of units, infantry is in Corps and Division sizes, many start overstrength, perhaps the map is a little cluttered.

I was worried it might be cluttered. What do you think about going back to army/corp and just adjusting quantities. Slowly revert to how it was till it fills the field nicely.

One thing, those land units didn't last long, combat is very bloody. For some reason the actual combat results are consistently more than the game's display of probable expected losses. The movement rates are higher for land units, lots of opportunity for maneuver, I haven't checked out the naval aspects yet.

Combat goes back to size of units. basically armys are corps, corps are divs. I'll adjust. As for movement increases there is a reason behind that. The map is larger and its basically a little larger than 2 corp per hex. 3 APs was not enough. I made it 4 and 5 for armor. All terrain is +1 movement. Adjacent to enemy is +2. So while you have mobility you simply cant zoom through lines. Took me a while to hopefully get it right. Naval is the same as original with some minor mods based on accuracy of ships.

I also noticed a lot of cities with 13 map displayed values, but their selected supply values were only 10 in the bottom of the screen info panel? The map is well laid out, I just wish it was bigger to accomodate the extra pieces and added AP values. I can see there will be supply problems in some regions as the historical models.

The number increase is a graphical issue I made a mistake on. The PDE strength_values_sprites.bmp is in the bitmaps folder instead of the PAC one. I corrected that and will upload it today. I use the alternate counters which are modified. I like them better. I included them in the setup files under the bitmap folder.

Supply I tried to do the best I could. But only testing will tell. Late war it should not be a problem. But the cities not activated also affect rail. The activate later to reflect production increases. I tried to do it via technology but it didnt work with how tech is setup.

Lots of decision events and a nicely done splash screen at the beginning, a very professional job. This campaign looks very interesting with not a lot of units in the build Q, are there many scripted to arrive?

Most of the decisions are early. But I didnt overdo it and tried to keep things balanced. There are few arrivals except already produced ships.

The USA has the A-bomb which took a lot of creativity to make it work. I put it in PDE.

Kamakazi for Japs are buildable.

Germans get V weapons late in the war. If they want them to be effective they need to do research.

Some other decisions I am toying with is Russia Attacks Japan. Each decision has a benefit and consequence to balance the game. Hope I did it right. Its tough on a game of this scale.

Well Rambo, what do you think? Want to give a go, since our Nupremal game is obsolete (1.03) and the Amis are yet to come in (88%), already April 43.

Lemme put up the new version.

[SeaMonkey]

I don't know Big Al, I kind of like the corps size units, but the divisions really don't fit this scale, the Armies are likewise a bit obtuse also.

Thing is, what do you do to accomodate the dual size units? Corps are appropriate, armies and divisions???? We need to think of something else, but currently I'm at a loss other than the garrisons that you've already made with the ATs. Let me sleep on it.

Forum???

[Big Al]

I do see your point. If garrisons are so weak why do we need divisions. I was mainly using them as what they were in smaller areas of conflict where corps werent appropriate like East Africa, and the island campaign in the Pacific, Norway. But really I can take em out and use garrisons to represent weak units in those places. Ill replace and update. Should be up by morning.

[Big Al]

Ok its 1am EST here and I want to sleep. So I will upload it in the morning. If you play it read the "READ ME ABOUT SCENARIO.txt" under \Strategic Command WWII Pacific Theater\Campaigns\_1939 Brute Force to see the changes I made.

I removed all divisions and did some recalculation on OOBs (they are a little smaller per country. Fixed some minor errors in scripts.

I corrected small nations that have smaller forces, like Finland and Norway, by keeping the corps but adjusting their values down to represent smaller corps (2 divs per instead of 3-5).

[Big Al]

As for the carnage... Early in the war the Germans were unstoppable. The moral of the German units is high and the allies low according to game mechanics. So yea the Germans should smash through countries. Im hoping later on when allied production overwhelms axis production it will even out. But its about testing.

France should be easy to take out

#1 because they were in the real war.

#2 because if France holds out 30-40% of the time till the USA comes in... well that doesnt make such a fun game.

If I remember from PDE version the Germans are hard pressed to get a 1941 barbarossa with enough units unless they dedicate themselves to it so at least until 1943 it should be balanced. I just hope in 1944 the allies dont overwhelm them. I have played only 2 games on my PDE version vs the AI till that point so its not conclusive so far.

[SeaMonkey]

I appreciate your sense of getting it right and after I thought about it for awhile, not a lot of sleep, why try and reinvent the wheel. Hubert long ago established a foundation for the "Army" usage and I really can't think of a good enough reason to modify it.....yet! It does serve a very good purpose of cleaning up the map and cutting down on unit density, thereby making room for our other specialized units.

I decided what I really like about the SC corps units, which I use quite extensively in my games, is that with the upgrades, especially mobility, they become very hard hitting units when they have accumulated a bit of experience.

I send them out on all sorts of missions, encirclements, scouting, garrisons, and in a group of two or three with the AT upgrade, they are great tank killers. Its not so much they do the killing, but they attrite the target, then the armies and tank groups do the eliminating and acquire the additional experience.

Even when they're left exposed, as long as their supply is 5 or greater, they're cheap to rebuild. In short, SC's best, most versatile unit, the SC "Corps".

You know, I knew that........way back when, arby(RB) and Oak convinced me of that in our PBEMs of SC1, I kind of forgot.

[Big Al]

I'm now starting work on AI routines for BF1939 PAC version.

Ive been working with the AI on PDE version and I am pretty pleased with the results. So now I am going to move it to PAC version and see how it works and what I have to change.

I usually play AI vs me or AI vs AI.

Current Status PDE version: AI works for Germany, Japan, Italy, UK, USSR, France, USA Europe. USA Pacific still needs some work and testing to make sure it can accomplish its goals. I have not put up the new file yet. I want to make sure everything works right.

Special Features: I included alternative strategies for both Germany and Japan they each have 2 different strategy approaches to the game.