British Infantry...

[Jarhead0331]

What is the Infantry OOB going to look like in the British Module for CMSF?

Is the module going to comprise a British force with a set Regimental composition. For mission editing, will there be various Regiments to choose from? Will there be Royal Marine Commandos? Etc. etc.

Sorry if this question has already been asked.

[flamingknives]

Regimental Composition?

There are four distinct organisations for infantry battalions in the British Army, plus one for the Royal Marine Commandos

Armoured Infantry - Equipped with Warriors

Mechanized Infantry - Equipped with FV432 Bulldogs

Light Infantry - on foot with WMIKs in support

Parachute Infantry - similar to Light Infantry but a few differences.

A Regiment in infantry terms is an administrative organization. Its battalions may be different roles as described above, or the same. The only infantry regiment with one role is the Parachute Regiment, and even that is only true for 2 and 3 Para. Regiments are not deployed as an operational unit. That formation level is covered by Brigades.

[Jarhead0331]

I'm talking about Regiments...

ie. The blues and Royals, The Black Watch, The Royal Green Jackets, etc. etc. I'm curious to know which regiments will be included in the module.

[Lets_All_Fight]

BFC games have never included names for actual regiments, brigades, divisions or what ever else. it's never worked like that. The scenario designer will tell you what unit your boys are from but thats about it. You might get Royal Marine Commandos in the editor, for instance, but you won't find any units labelled '2/2 Commando', if you follow my drift. If you want your marines to be from that particular unit you will have to specify it in the mission briefing.

[flamingknives]

A Light role Infantry Battalion like 3 SCOTS (The Black Watch) isn't really any different to 2 RIFLES (Ex 1 Bn Royal Green Jackets).

Therefore if the four organisations noted above are in, then that covers any infantry regiment you care to name. I'm afraid I don't understand what you think is different about different regiments and how that is in any way relevant to an operationally deployed unit.

Incidentally, the Blues and Royals are a cavalry regiment, which is a battalion-sized armour unit, specifically Formation Recce equipped with CVR(T)

[Jarhead0331]

I would think anyone who actually served in those Regiments would find a difference between Regiments. My understanding of the British Army is that historically, it revolves around the Regimental system...operationally, is anything different? Perhaps not...but to say there are no differences, is with all due respect, pretty narrow minded. flamingknives, you appear to be English and have a good understanding of the mechanics of the British Army TOE, but I'm quite surprised that you don't believe there are variations between Regiments. For me, if anything, there would be an immersion/authenticity factor associated with the inclusion of specific British Military units.

[Guinnessman]

. For me, if anything, there would be an immersion/authenticity factor associated with the inclusion of specific British Military units.

I'm not quite sure how they would go around actually modelling those specific units though. Outside of the obvious organisational differences between the various roles the relevant battalion is tasked to, there's not much to go on in game terms.

Of course, if BFC want to prove me wrong by having lots of little grinning Gurkhas running around with kukri in one hand and SA80 in the other, or having Household Cavalry FOs calling in airstrikes with very posh accents, then I'd be fine with that

[Lets_All_Fight]

Of course, if BFC want to prove me wrong by having lots of little grinning Gurkhas running around with kukri in one hand and SA80 in the other, or having Household Cavalry FOs calling in airstrikes with very posh accents, then I'd be fine with that

Gurkhas would be cool to have in the game, not least because I once had very memorable night of getting drunk with several of them!

[flamingknives]

No doubt that someone from one Regiment would see differences between theirs and others. What differences that there actually are? I don't think that there is anything that can be readily simulated in game.

Please tell me what you think these differences are.

In operational terms, you have light infantry, armoured infantry and mechanised infantry. And paras and commandos. The organisation and, critically, the equipment for any given unit of a particular role is pretty much identical to any other unit of the same role.

Just to clarify, an example.

We have a regiment. Let us say it is the Royal Regiment of Scotland - Proud people those Scots.

The Regiment consists of five regular Battalions and two Territorial Battalions:

1 SCOTS (The Royal Scots Borderers) are light role infantry

2 SCOTS (The Royal Highland Fusiliers) are light role infantry

3 SCOTS (The Black Watch) are light role infantry

4 SCOTS (The Highlanders) are armoured infantry

5 SCOTS (The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders) are Light role infantry

6 SCOTS (52nd Lowland) are TA light infantry

7 SCOTS (51st Highland) are TA light infantry

The Royal Regiment of Scotland never, ever, ever deploys as a whole. Two of it's light role infantry battalions are deployed with 16 Air Assault Brigade, along with elements of 4 SCOTS.

Battalions, with equipment and organisation appropriate to their role, deploy as part of Brigades. A Regiment is not a fighting unit.

[GSX]

No doubt that someone from one Regiment would see differences between theirs and others. What differences that there actually are? I don't think that there is anything that can be readily simulated in game.

Please tell me what you think these differences are.

In operational terms, you have light infantry, armoured infantry and mechanised infantry. And paras and commandos. The organisation and, critically, the equipment for any given unit of a particular role is pretty much identical to any other unit of the same role.

Just to clarify, an example.

We have a regiment. Let us say it is the Royal Regiment of Scotland - Proud people those Scots.

The Regiment consists of five regular Battalions and two Territorial Battalions:

1 SCOTS (The Royal Scots Borderers) are light role infantry

2 SCOTS (The Royal Highland Fusiliers) are light role infantry

3 SCOTS (The Black Watch) are light role infantry

4 SCOTS (The Highlanders) are armoured infantry

5 SCOTS (The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders) are Light role infantry

6 SCOTS (52nd Lowland) are TA light infantry

7 SCOTS (51st Highland) are TA light infantry

The Royal Regiment of Scotland never, ever, ever deploys as a whole. Two of it's light role infantry battalions are deployed with 16 Air Assault Brigade, along with elements of 4 SCOTS.

Battalions, with equipment and organisation appropriate to their role, deploy as part of Brigades. A Regiment is not a fighting unit.

Just to stick an emphasis and clarification on this one. All those Battalions are CURRENTLY fulfilling this role, everything else is true, except that Brit units will rotate through the various roles changing about every 2-3 years. So the Highlanders might be Armoured Inf right now, but a year or two ago they may have been in one of the other roles.

Therefore it would be difficult in the least to designate units in CM as they will quickly get out of date.

I think the current situation is ideal. Designate the establishments of each and let us play with them how we want.

As for Ghurkas, I would love to see a Mod of those after having done a tour or two with them. Youd have to track a few down to do the voices though!

[flamingknives]

Ah, that would be the Arms plot. It was my understanding that it had been discontinued in favour of larger Regiments which would enable a soldier to switch roles without leaving the regiment that covers the recruitment area and without forcing a whole battalion to do so.

In any case, CM:SF covers a three-month period so there's no danger of it going out of date due to changes in battalion role.

[Combatintman]

The whole purpose of FAS for the infantry was to lose the Arms Plot because of the time and expense required to rerole units from say Light Role to Armoured Infantry Role. As a result big units were created allowing people to stay in the same cap badge but remain in a specified role. So unless there is a change of policy - the roles for the individual Battalions of the Royal Regiment of Scotland will not change.

[Combatintman]

Going back to the individual units bit - simply rename the name of the unit in the unit editor after purchasing it.

[Bobario]

Going back to the individual units bit - simply rename the name of the unit in the unit editor after purchasing it.

Thats about the only difference the game will be able to make between different infantry regiments at this sort of scale. But, surely we wont be seeing units like the Royal Marines and the Para`s in the campaign because the game seems to deal with a single Brigade or Battle Group unit. As far as I know, Marines and Para`s wouldnt be operating in the armoured infantry role with attached armour callsigns. I`m setting my hopes on a campaign centred around a Household Division Battle Group. Light armour from the Blues&Royals, Chally`s from the Lifeguards and Warriors and dismounts from the Guards.

But at the end of the day, the only difference will be in the campaign briefing, which you can probably edit anyway.

[flamingknives]

The Paras are just a slightly different organisation. The Commandos have their own specialist toys.

As noted earlier, in the British Army you can have Formation Recce (light armour if that helps. The Blues and Royals are a formation recce regiment), Armoured regiment (Challenger 2s) Armoured Infantry (Warriors) Mechanised Infantry (Bulldogs) Light Infantry (on foot and Land Rovers) and Parachute Infantry (On foot or landrovers, as helicopters and parachutes aren't modeled)

You can call them anything you like if it makes you happy, but you have a choice from those six organisations. Which regiments, divisions or brigades they hail from makes little tangible difference as far as any game would be concerned.

[Combatintman]

Thats about the only difference the game will be able to make between different infantry regiments at this sort of scale. But, surely we wont be seeing units like the Royal Marines and the Para`s in the campaign because the game seems to deal with a single Brigade or Battle Group unit. As far as I know, Marines and Para`s wouldnt be operating in the armoured infantry role with attached armour callsigns. I`m setting my hopes on a campaign centred around a Household Division Battle Group. Light armour from the Blues&Royals, Chally`s from the Lifeguards and Warriors and dismounts from the Guards.

But at the end of the day, the only difference will be in the campaign briefing, which you can probably edit anyway.

Sorry to disappoint but there are no heavy role armoured units in the Guards Division - the Blues and Royals and the Life Guards are now the Household Cavalry Regiment and are in the Formation Recce Role. All that said - with the unit editor you can pick and mix to a degree and what used to be termed fairly 'standard' battlegroups are becoming less common. If you read Dusty Warriors by Richard Holmes for instance you'll see that the PWRR BG in Al Amarah had heavy armour, armoured infantry and light role infantry grouped under command. The current Chief of the General Staff was quoted in the press a couple of months ago as stating that perhaps units should be task-organised/battlegrouped semi-permanently in order for them to train as they would fight on operations.

[Bobario]

If you read Dusty Warriors by Richard Holmes for instance you'll see that the PWRR BG in Al Amarah had heavy armour, armoured infantry and light role infantry grouped under command. The current Chief of the General Staff was quoted in the press a couple of months ago as stating that perhaps units should be task-organised/battlegrouped semi-permanently in order for them to train as they would fight on operations.

Good book that. And a good idea by the CGS too. The army seems to be abandoning the regimental system and moving towards a more flexible battlegroup or brigade oriented unit structure in the American style. But at the heart of every battlegroup is a regiment, with its many traditions, battle honours and history. Hopefully we wont lose too much of that along the way. The Donkey Wallopers have lost their heavy armour too, well would you adam and eve it. They had Chieftains back in the day.