Stryker Javelin Ammo Problems

[Cpl Steiner]

As everyone seems to agree that Javelin missiles unbalance the game, and as they are very expensive and would therefore possibly be one of the first things to start to run out after a sustained period of high-intensity operations, I thought I'd play around with the vehicle ammo settings of a Stryker Platoon in the editor to reduce them or remove them altogether. When I did this, however, I found a number of problems. I'm pretty sure these have been raised before but as we are supposed to be getting a very comprehensive patch soon for the Marines module I thought I'd mention them again.

1. The Stryker always reports 1 less Javelin than it actually has. I think this relates to a change in a previous patch which made it impossible to acquire the Javelin launcher without also acquiring 1 missile.

This seemed a good idea at the time but I now wish this had never been changed - because it causes the miscount issue and also because it means a squad which already has a launcher is sometimes forced to acquire a second one, if the only one left in a vehicle happens to be the one associated with the launcher for that vehicle.

A quick fix would be to show the launcher greyed out in the acquire list popup window. The launcher cannot be acquired but shows up in the list to tell the player the vehicle has a launcher. If you then acquire a Javelin missile, and don't already have a launcher, the launcher comes with it automatically. It then doesn't appear on the acquire list anymore, to tell the player the vehicle has no launcher. If the unit already had a launcher when it took the missile, the launcher in the vehicle would be left where it is.

2. Setting the ammo for a Stryker to below "Normal" level removes a missile for each lower level but it also removes standard ammo such as main armament ammo and extra 5.56 and 7.62mm ammo for the passengers.

It would be very useful if this could be changed somehow so the user can limit the number of Javelins carried without limiting other types of ammo. As this is really only necessary because of the unbalancing nature of the Javelin in the game, a "quick and nasty" fix which only applies to Javelins would do. I would suggest having a "counter" box labelled "No. of Javelins" with "+" and "-" buttons next to it to increase or reduce the number (min. 0, max. 3).

[c3k]

Hmmm, or, just re-balance the game by giving the enemy more armor!

Thanks,

Ken

[Paper Tiger]

Given that a standard Stryker infantry platoon wth standard ammo, or even a scout platoon, has 12 javelins at their disposal the suggestion that increasing the number of enemy tanks to rebalance the game is simply absurd for two reasons...

the first is that you would need to endow the enemy side with an absolute minimum of 12 tanks per stryker platoon. And if there were a full US Stryker Company, you're talking about more than a battalion of tanks. Now, if we follow c3k's logic, these tanks are merely included in the game to soak up the javelins that we can't otherwise delete from the game. Yes, you can reduce the US ammo supply but even with the lowest settings you still get 1 and that means a minimum of 4 tanks per platoon that are just there as cannon fodder. After you've blown those dozens of tanks up, you've then got potentially dozens of frame-rate killing burning wrecks scattered all over he battlefield before you can get down to the REAL action.

(Yes, you can argue that it's not a given that 1 javelin equals 1 dead tank but it's pretty close to that when they're being used by a competent US player who knows how to deploy his javelin teams)

the second is that, without any other AT assets, ie Stryker ATGM's or tanks, when the US Stryker force runs out of javelins, they have almost nothing left with which to hurt enemy armour. And that's not funny when it happens.

Therefore the BEST way to balance these scenarios is to give the US an realistic OB that includes tanks when there's the possibility that they'll be fighting tanks.

Cpl Steiner's suggestion is a good one for those of us who'd like to reduce their influence in the game without denuding the US Inafntry of their ammo and it's not an unrealistic proposition. You can just cut the boring armour slaughter-fest out and get straight into the action. The mission starts after the enemy armour has been eliminated...

[JP76er]

Given that a standard Stryker infantry platoon wth standard ammo, or even a scout platoon, has 12 javelins at their disposal the suggestion that increasing the number of enemy tanks to rebalance the game is simply absurd for two reasons...

the first is that you would need to endow the enemy side with an absolute minimum of 12 tanks per stryker platoon. And if there were a full US Stryker Company, you're talking about more than a battalion of tanks. Now, if we follow c3k's logic, these tanks are merely included in the game to soak up the javelins that we can't otherwise delete from the game. Yes, you can reduce the US ammo supply but even with the lowest settings you still get 1 and that means a minimum of 4 tanks per platoon that are just there as cannon fodder. After you've blown those dozens of tanks up, you've then got potentially dozens of frame-rate killing burning wrecks scattered all over he battlefield before you can get down to the REAL action.

(Yes, you can argue that it's not a given that 1 javelin equals 1 dead tank but it's pretty close to that when they're being used by a competent US player who knows how to deploy his javelin teams)

the second is that, without any other AT assets, ie Stryker ATGM's or tanks, when the US Stryker force runs out of javelins, they have almost nothing left with which to hurt enemy armour. And that's not funny when it happens.

Therefore the BEST way to balance these scenarios is to give the US an realistic OB that includes tanks when there's the possibility that they'll be fighting tanks.

Cpl Steiner's suggestion is a good one for those of us who'd like to reduce their influence in the game without denuding the US Inafntry of their ammo and it's not an unrealistic proposition. You can just cut the boring armour slaughter-fest out and get straight into the action. The mission starts after the enemy armour has been eliminated...

I agree with this. I hope that the balance of arty can be rehashed. I end up using a lot of my javelins as a make shift arty round because either you don't have any or there usually is a very limited supply. I have no military background so I'm not sure how real world this is.

[Paper Tiger]

I remember reading a post by Steve some time ago where he told a story about a javelin being fired on a real life sniper in Iraq. I particularly remember this anecdote as he mentioned that there wasn't much left of the sniper but the building was left intact. At that time in CMSF's development, a building hit by a single javelin was usually destroyed too. So, yes, it would appear that the US army use their javelins as portable artillery in real life too.

[Combatintman]

As do the Brits in Helmand - there are more videos than you can shake a stick at on You Tube showing the practice.

[JP76er]

I remember reading a post by Steve some time ago where he told a story about a javelin being fired on a real life sniper in Iraq. I particularly remember this anecdote as he mentioned that there wasn't much left of the sniper but the building was left intact. At that time in CMSF's development, a building hit by a single javelin was usually destroyed too. So, yes, it would appear that the US army use their javelins as portable artillery in real life too.

I wonder what that sniper's thoughts were when he saw/heard that missile coming. I'll check out the You Tube too.

[El Hombre]

Back in the Lebanon '75-90 war, it was common practice to use RPGs to smash sniper nests.

Fast forward to today... if you don't have an RPG but have a Javelin launcher and some ammo, why not?

[Combatintman]

Ditto with MILAN, Charlie G and LAW in the Falklands