Fall Weiss and Storm of Steel

[Franky-Boy]

Hello,

I recently downloaded the demo of 'Patton Drives East', even though I'm not interested in the "East vs. West" scenarios. However, I was surprised: the new 'Storm of Steel' scenario is very interesting, offering the player much more options than the original Fall Weiss scenario.

Nevertheless, before I decide to purchase this expansion, please answer the following questions:

1. Storm of Steel Scenario

The USA is much bigger here than the USA in the 'Weapons and Warfare' Add-on. Thus, I want to know how many MPP (military production points) will the USA generate in the Storm of Steel scenario with 100% readiness and no industrial technology research? In WaW, the USA generates 160 MPP. The US should not be able to produce more MPP in the Storm of Steel scenario, since this would destroy game balance in my opinion.

2. Fall Weiss

Is there any chance, that you will add the classic Fall Weiss scenario to the 'Patton Drives East Expansion' as well in a future patch? I would love to see this classic scenario with the improved AI and the new Decision system.

Thanks.

Frank

[ May 22, 2008, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: Franky-Boy ]

[Colin I]

I've not done the maths but I notice Allies seem to ramp up faster in Storm of Steel - as Russians I've never had so much armour built pre-Barbarossa for a start.

Yes, whilst Axis does have some early game flexibility this has to be addressed to make Storm of Steel a classic scenario.

[Franky-Boy]

Originally posted by Colin I:

I've not done the maths but I notice Allies seem to ramp up faster in Storm of Steel - as Russians I've never had so much armour built pre-Barbarossa for a start.

Did you play the full version of the game? If so, does the US produce much more MPP than in the WaW addon?

[Hubert Cater]

Franky-Boy,

Glad to hear you have enjoyed the Demo

1. All nations produces the same in the Storm of Steel as they do in Fall Weiss. The only difference for Storm of Steel is that while the US does have more resources on the map at the beginning of the game the bulk of them do not kick in until the historical victory over Japan, i.e. August 1945.

So to answer your question more specifically, the US starts the same as they do in both scenarios with 200 MPP worth of resources.

On top of this, there was a careful calculation of total MPPs for each country at the beginning of Fall Weiss, and this included Unit MPP values (on map and including the Production Queue) as well as Research levels, and Research chits applied etc.

Then for the Storm of Steel scenario I adjusted it accordingly to take into account the number of extra turns and the potential MPP collection to bring both scenarios to roughly the same total MPP value by the time September 1, 1939 rolls around.

Now while it should be (if my calculations were correct) at roughly the same total MPP value, it does not mean however that all unit purchases, research levels and applied research chits will be the same as players now have more flexibility on how they would like to spend their MPPs. For example, Colin noticed that he had more armour built pre-Barbarossa and so on.

2. Not officially as there is a natural differentiation between Patton Drives East and other SC2 products but this of course does not prevent anyone from using the Editor and recreating a Mod of Fall Weiss as desired.

Hope this helps,

Hubert

[Franky-Boy]

Thanks for the answers.

[Tegron]

its hard to do anything as axis after 1942 allies have way to much resources...

[Franky-Boy]

Originally posted by Tegron:

its hard to do anything as axis after 1942 allies have way to much resources...

That's true. I've played the Storm of Steel scenario with axis. Even though I conquered France, Spain, North Africa and Iraq, I've got a lot of problems in the USSR, since they seem have tons of resources in late 1942. So, I'm going back to Fall Weiss of WaW, since this scenario is much more balanced for the axis.

[Hubert Cater]

Another factor to consider is that alternate and aggressive actions by the Axis can also bring in sides earlier or raise activation %s for majors such as the US and USSR much sooner giving them more resources in the long run as some of you have noticed.

[Colin I]

Hubert, I'm sure you are right about the Allied ramp up being partly in response to Axis aggression.

Taken together, and accepting that you carefully calculated the MPP accumulation relative to Fall Weiss there do seem a number of trends.

Firstly, technology advances in key areas are faster - not surprising but does lead to IW2 all round a bit monotonously.

Secondly, the Axis are far more enjoyable to play because they have more interesting choices that change the game. Allies too, although less so (could we have a few Allied Decision events earlier, please?). On the latter point I accept it needs to be the Germans that make major choices early given they have strategic initiative. However, Allies could have choices too that connect with their diplomatic and military policies. [France arming earlier but this worrying Stalin would seem valid. If you could simulate political shifts that would be fantastic (eg France and UK cooperate better, can deploy BEF one turn earlier to France - or Belgium cooperates with France in defense - add fortification in Belgium. In both cases I presume hostility from Stalin is the counterbalance).

Thirdly, Allies do seem to have the edge. As other have said, after early fun the Axis gets swamped more often than before, whatever the causes Allied ramp up is faster. I would imagine a few units more in the stack for Axis (an HQ and special forces) would help or some one shot diplomatic chits that could be preinvested early to simulate prewar maneouvering, would be good.

[Hubert Cater]

Thanks for the feedback Colin and there were a few Allied decision suggestions that were made during Beta as well but we simply ran out of time to include for the initial release. I should now be able to revisit these, as well as your own, and see what I can do to make the other side a bit more interesting.

To counter some of the Allied edge in the later years which I think are a direct result of some of the more aggressive Axis game play earlier on I will suggest the following edits:

- lower initial Soviet activation% from 17% to 15%

- lower Soviet reaction from 3-5% to 1-2% for German war with Czechoslovakia

- lower Soviet reaction from 10-15% to 7-10% for German annexation of Eastern Poland

- add Leeb HQ to the German P/Q for March 1, 1941

Note, if the German player DoWs France or the UK etc., this will add an additional 3-5% activation to the USSR, and more than what would be in regular Fall Weiss.

[Colin I]

Thanks Hubert.

I think Soviets should be quite pissed off by annexation of Eastern Poland by Germany but in terms of game balance this seems fair.

I can imagine you might also simulate diplomatic overtures before the war. For example, Nazi Germany courts US public opinion. Lose 2 diplomacy chits permanantly to lower US readyness for war. Nazi Germany holds back on sinking US shipping - reduce US escalation if no German U-boat intercepts convoys to the UK with penaly of loss of one U-boat built. Allies court Italy - lower Italian readyness but reduce Allied deployment in Med.

Think quite a lot of interesting options here that increase strategy without unbalancing too far.