I can't win.

[SixthArmy]

I get 4 pieces of crap light tanks, an I got to go up against a company of stuG ivs and mark ivh. Gee, I wonder why they keep simply driving right over my head no matter what I do.

Some of these missions are ridiculous. Some I beat by massing force and thats ok. Others I have to go to the editor and get at least just a little bit of firepower. What nazi designed these things. Gesh.

[Sneaksie]

Nazi designer? )) You'll think otherwise when you'll try German campaign and would be crushed like a bug by enemy hordes:)

[SixthArmy]

I didn't mean nazi biased towards the design, I mean nazi like the Soup Nazi. The Scenario Nazi. NO HEAVY TANKS FOR YOU!

Having problems w/ that hoard of T-34? No problem, here's a 20L55, take those badboys out!

[DTT]

I finally finished the first Polish mission. It took about 10 retries with varying unit setups/placements and tactics, but I wasn't happy. It just felt like the pain was finally over

Having three 75mm fields to deal with 15 tanks is just ludicrous. I'm amazed I even won (three TKS's remaining), and it was probably 50% sheer luck in the end.

I love the amount of detail and research that has clearly gone into the game, but at the end of the day, it's a game and is meant to be fun. I haven't enjoyed one bit of this game, but I really want to. It reminds me of my love/hate relationship with Faces of War. They both have tremendous potential but have critical flaws which make the game unplayable.

The missions just don't need to be so incredibly difficult. Realism is one thing, unbalanced gameplay is quite another.

[FinnN]

I agree completely, you often end up doing the equivalent to facing a regiment of opposition with a company (if you're lucky) of equipment. So, a realistic outcome would be an overrun - which is exactly what happens in most scenarios unless you have both a fair bit of luck and also do just about everything perfectly.

Hopefully the new 'quick' scenario designer will make it much easier to put together some interesting things, and it certainly sounds like they've been listening to the complaints about scenario design so the new Normandy campaign sounds extremely promising.

Have fun

Finn

[CharlieMike24]

Sneaksie has said that the difficulty settings are due to be adjusted (in the next patch, I think). If so, there may be more choice whether to play a game of "shoot'em up" or sweat over a game of "be shot up"!

[achtung bb]

Yep Im in soviet campain i get 3 p-ss ant tanks and 1 t34-41 ,3 45mm arty and a useless AT rifle -here comes jerry over the hill with a buttload of armour and 2 to 3 times my infantry////,. why cant I call up more tnks or air support . Im supposed to fight the AI but it decides how much and when I can be reinforced.

there has got to be a way to get parrody ? I HATE TO THINK THE ONLY WAY TO SUCCEDE IS WITH A CHEAT .

[Fetid]

Can't win. Ain't it the truth. I've used the mission editor to redesign some of the battles within the campaign. Sandomeirz, the 3rd and last Polish scenario was near impossible to win. (By the way, this campaign could use 2-3 more scenarios. There was more fighting in Poland than what is portrayed.) It should not be. At least not on a tactical level. On a tactical level, the Poles gave the Germans a lot of tank losses and considering that the Poles didn't have much of an airforce that came from anti-tank units and artillery units as well as good use of the Poles limited armour. The Germans were especially rebuffed and held up in the drive to Warsaw and the push into the deep SouthEast near Lvov. That's why so many Poles successfully got out to Romania to fight for France and England. Strategically, yes, they were defeated. The Germans made resupply impossible as well as communication and coordination and movesment was difficult. It is relatively easy to start up the Mission editor, click on the campaign, click on the battle, go to disposition? I believe, first entry = COST which is the number of "points" you have to purchase units. Simply click in the box and retype a new and increased value so that you can buy more units. In defense, scenarios that allow 2 guns that set up in the open against dozens of enemy tanks will not survive. 4 guns have a much better chance. You can add new units but it is tricky making sure that they appear in the roster. You must increase the limit of each category such as Tanks= 6 to Tanks=12. Then you must make sure that a "placeholder" is made for each new unit so that it can appear on the map, and the "location" should closely match (but not an identical number) the location numbers of other units placed by the original scenario designers.

The French campaign has the same problem: you are not given enough to win against enormous numbers of Germans. Especially true at Arras. Arras is totally skewed (screwed?). Arras was an ALLIED attack not a German attack. The Germans defenders were OVERWHELMED with powerful Allied armour and numbers and were overrun. The Allies easily pushed aside the German defenders at first. What stopped them? Stuka dive-bombers and the German 88mm Anti-aircraft gun. Not swarms of PzIV c and Pz38t who fight like PzIV Hs. The 4 Matildas that the Allies get are fairly easily immobilized and then their guns damaged and then their crews panicked (all novice or conscript) so that they abandon while peppered by surrounding 37mm ATGs and 75mm Inf guns firing AP and maybe even heat? The BEF or British in France was largely a professional small Army. While they had their "regular" footsoldiers the tank forces were NOT conscripts. If you go into the mission editor and change the Matilda tank crews to Regular, they won't panic so much when immobilized. IF you change one or two to "Veteran", they actually become useful and stay fighting while immobilized without panic. They realize that the chances of a 37 mm or 75mm Inf gun round penetrating are low. The French also had the S-35 and CharB1bis in this battle. I increased the Matildas to 6 while increasing crew quality, from 4, s-35 from 1 to 3 and added a CharB. Note that the German tank crews are ALL Veteran and ELITE. Mostly ELITE where it counts. All of the Pz38t s and PzIV c s have ELITE crews. Only the PzIIs and Pz35t s have some Veterans. The German tank crews were not all ELITE yet in early 1940. In Poland 70 percent of their armour were Pz1 and Pz2 and even the PzIVa which had no better armour than the Pz1. Germans were not ELITE tankers until around 1941. Strategic planning may have been elite compared to the Poles and the French and even the British, but on the tactical level the Allied soldiers--especially the armour units and artillery, including AA and ATG were not moronic dopes. The Germans took a lot of material losses which they made up by the time of the desert fighting in March 1941, the Balkans in May 1941 and Russia by June 22, 1941. So if you can't win, get out the Adobe Mission editor indtructions and spend a couple frustrating days fooling with the Mission Editor and you can improve the odds significantly and in some cases the realism. Just giving your side more purchase points so that you can use the "Reserves" provided is a start and can make a difference and give you a little better chance to win. But sometimes, you do need stronger units and then you have to learn how to do the placeholder for the new unit and make a location for the unit in the set up area so you can control the new unit's placement on the map and not have it show up a mile from your main position with rear facing the enemy and lose it in the first second of the game. This is frustrating to figure out but not impossible, as changing the location numbers of the unit and it's placeholder location will show you how to adjust the location over and over until you bring the new unit (s) closer and closer to your set up position. If you copy the location numbers of properly placed units from the original scenario designed set up area and then change the numbers from like 1284.3328 1520.80 to 1280.3328 and 1516.80 you should get the new unit close to an original unit. One number is up and down and the 2nd set of numbers is left to right. Azimuth is the direction the unit faces out of 360 degrees. This number you can copy from other units so that they all face the same direction. You may want to change the "data" for a tanks' "backpack" which is their ammo. A French CharB1 isn't going to go into a tank battle with 13 rounds of AP and 57 rounds of HE. It would be more like 37/37 or even more than 50% AP rounds. Then you CAN win as it should be and as happened in REAL LIFE.

[redbear]

I am in the firts german camp mission there is alot of AT guns and alot infantry and my tank were easily destroy by the guns on long range shoots i think this missions need to be redoing.

[Sneaksie]

Fetid

Thanks for your suggestions, i told mission designers about your changes to Arras mission. They asked, on what historical sources you've based your suggestions (about presence of B1, S-35s and such).

[achtung bb]

Fetid ,thx for the info on mission editor.

I have tuned one of my most recent SP battles to a slight even start(germans still had more tanks).

i like your insistense on historical acuracy .

I feel now that before I tweak the battle settings for my next engagement i will do a little more historical research into the battle .

I am impressed with all the historical knolleddge of most of you people on this forum (as well as battlestations midway forum) I thought I knew a ton of ww2 history but see now that many of you people are very well versed on this subject .

I tip my hat to you folks and thank you for your knowlege .

[ September 12, 2007, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: achtung bb ]

[Fetid]

I'll have to get back to you on that info for Arras. My research materials are old style books and papers and are in storage. I believe that their is a good, detailed account of that battle in "The History of The Second World War" in 196 volumes. It would be in volume 4 or 5. They came out in the USA around 1972 when I was 13 and I started reading about WW2 in detail. Published in England in 1965 by Marshall Cavendish?? I'll have to check it. Arras was conducted with another battle at the same time. One was from the SOuth and one was from the North to try to pinch off the corridor that the Germans created in their thrust behind Allied defensive lines. A quick check of older games such as Panzer Leader, Squad Leader, and Advanced Squad Leader in how scenario orders of battle were laid out can be of some help. Although the research was not done by ME, they were time tested games that were mostly well researched by others. One ASL scenario A40 called Ad Hoc At Beaurains takes place as part of the counterattack at Arras on May 21. The British 4th Royal Tank Regiment consisting of all Matildas overran an anti-tank defense of German 37mm and "thrashed" Pz2s and Pz38ts and were only stopped when they ran into 88Lmm AA guns. John Tillers' HPS France 1940 game is pretty well done as well.

One more "I Can't Win Tip" : The French 37mm is pretty poor. We all know that. But when the Germans attack, they are moving closer to you. Use the better armour of H35 and R35 as well as any S35 and CharB that you have and sit, hold fire and position, and wait for the Germans to get within 200 yards (meters). Then you'll hit and penetrate. Most of the time, the French tanks will survive long enough for the Germans to get close. At long range, those French 37mm s can't hit a city let alone a vehicle. (I'm exagerating.) But you could easily waste all your ammo and maybe only knock out one enemy vehicle. Also the German Pz38t runs out of ammo very quickly so that even though it is tough to knock out, you only need to immobilize it if it runs out of ammo. And if it's mostly an armoured battle, you can ignore it.

[Fetid]

Regarding Arras in France: The 1st company, 525th PanzerJaeger Battalion was present and consisted of 9 (3 squadrons of 3) PanzerJg1 SP Tank Destroyers with the 47Lmm ATG. Also 2 Batteries of 38th Battalion, 101st AA regiment with 8 88Lmm AA guns and one battery and one section of 4th company, 525 PZJg Battalion with 6 88Lmm guns. Also from the French 3e DLM, 5e BLM, 1st and 2nd Squadrons of the 1/1er Cuirassiers consisting of 12 S-35s each minus a few lost to mechanical breakdowns. There were also British and German armoured cars present: Troops A and B of the 12th Lancers (24 vehicles) and about 50 PSW of the 37th Afklaerung (Reconn) Battalion. In the South, near Amiens, was the French 18e Dragoons of 1e DLM with around 40 S-35 down from 50 and the 1/3e Cuirassiers, 4e DCR at half strength with 17 or 18 S-35s. I cannot confirm a CharB yet but they were at Montcornet 3 days earlier so as to not be impossible.

[nachinus]

Awesome research, guys! I hope it's taken into account by mission designers and we can see some changes to the French campaign to make it more reasonable.

[Fetid]

To clarify: that's 24 S-35s of 1st and 2nd Squadrons of the 1/1er Cuirassiers, 5e BLM, 3e DLM minus 3 or 4 for breakdowns (21) present at Arras.

[Fetid]

At Arras, the Germans also used 105mm Artillery guns at point blank range on the Matildas. Most of the Matildas were type 1 with just a Machine gun. They could still overrun infantry and gun positions. Only 16 Matilda II tanks took part but were very effective. The German 37Lmm ATG positions and infantry were overrun and destroyed. Also 3 PzIVs, 6 Pnzer III s and many lighter tanks were destroyed. (Pz II, Pz35t, Pz 38T). The French contributed 70 tanks including FT 17, H35, H39, R35, R39, and S-35. Mention is made of "heavy tanks" but not specifically the CharB. But the S-35, although large in size is more of a medium tank. I can only surmise that "heavy" refers to the CharB. Considering the overwhelming success that was only halted with 105mm ARty and 88Lmm AA guns, with Stuka support, some must have been present. Not only were the Germans repulsed but frightened. Rommel thought he was up against many hundreds of tanks when in fact he was up against 143. It was one of the reasons Hitler and the General staff called a temporary halt to further armoured offensive operations.

[Sneaksie]

It's a pity we can't use 88 and 105mm now in missions.

I think you should make a mod, for example, not only Arras but entire French campaign as well, as you apparently interested in this subject and the history of French campaign.

There are several kinds of files in each mission folder.

ambient.xml - contains info about ambient sounds in mission

biefing.xml - self-explanatory, but text itself is in another file:

texts.utf8

trigger.ini - contains mission scripting

mission.xml - contains data about rects and units

2 .bin files - generated during first run of the mission, they contain light mapping and pathfinding info

.tga file - briefing map.

As you can see, to create a mod you only need to pack two files - trigger.ini and mission.xml (i don't think you've edited ambient sounds placement and briefing map), maybe texts.utf8 and briefing.xml if your changes affect bfiefing and high command orders. Zip them preserving directory structure, so they will unzip in correct directory for each mission you've modded. It's also advisable for users of such mods to backup their original files if later they decide to revert to original mission structure, it can be done easily, for example, just by copying entire 'FRANCE' directory in Missions folder to some other place.

[Fetid]

Arras: quick references:

http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/ww2hist/ww21940may.htm

scroll down to May 21.

http://www.germanwarmachine.com/waffenss/1940/west.htm

scroll down to Battle Of Arras about 40% down the page.

http://www.germanwarmachine.com/campaigns/1940/battleoffrance1.htm

scroll half way to "The Risks Inherent in Blitzkrieg"- Arras

Consider adding the battle of Namur (may25-June 1) to the campaign. This was a huge armoured battle with the French CharB present. The French were winning but withdrew when ammo ran short and the Germans were reinforced by new units.

[Fetid]

Originally posted by Sneaksie:

It's a pity we can't use 88 and 105mm now in missions.

I think you should make a mod, for example, not only Arras but entire French campaign as well, as you apparently interested in this subject and the history of French campaign.

There are several kinds of files in each mission folder.

ambient.xml - contains info about ambient sounds in mission

biefing.xml - self-explanatory, but text itself is in another file:

texts.utf8

trigger.ini - contains mission scripting

mission.xml - contains data about rects and units

2 .bin files - generated during first run of the mission, they contain light mapping and pathfinding info

.tga file - briefing map.

As you can see, to create a mod you only need to pack two files - trigger.ini and mission.xml (i don't think you've edited ambient sounds placement and briefing map), maybe texts.utf8 and briefing.xml if your changes affect bfiefing and high command orders. Zip them preserving directory structure, so they will unzip in correct directory for each mission you've modded. It's also advisable for users of such mods to backup their original files if later they decide to revert to original mission structure, it can be done easily, for example, just by copying entire 'FRANCE' directory in Missions folder to some other place.

Unfortunately, this is all Greek to me. I'm pretty good at research, board wargame design, and I can usually create scenarios from existing computer war games. But actually making units, uploading sounds, tank pictures or artwork, making the units data, I know nothing about that. I could probably do the data if a file were already present to use as a guide and I could "fill in the blanks" for the new units. But I don't know how to do the artwork and make it part of the game.